Predict: The Next Generation Console Tech

[ninzel]

Any chance of Cell for WiiU? I just noticed a particular game listed as coming to PS3 and WiiU only,no 360 or PC version. Probably not related but it made me wonder.

 

[liolio]

0.0%

Not even epsilon.

 

[mikiex]

Any chance of Cell for WiiU? I just noticed a particular game listed as coming to PS3 and WiiU only,no 360 or PC version. Probably not related but it made me wonder.

At the end of the day Cell has been an interesting, but most of its uses have been to off load work from the GPU. Its also more interesting if you are doing a PS3 only title.

A more modern GPU like we hope will be in the WiiU has better features and won't need support.

If the hardware has more than 3 CPU cores and the latest generation of GPUs with plenty of SPUs on it I think we will be seeing Sony and Microsoft releasing new consoles soon too.

 

[patsu]

Nah - too irregular and too much logic. But I would still be wary of overinterpreting it.
I still haven't seen anything from IBM about just what cores the CPU is based on. It's unclear if that "Watson" comment is from Engadget or from within IBM. If it is from within IBM though, that would point to Power7. But an 8-core power7 is 567mm2 at 45nm SOI, and even cut in half it's a monster of a chip for the Wii U. Hell, even a fourth of a Power7 (is dual-core=multi-core?) would be just under 150mm2 which is 10 times larger than the Wii CPU on 90nm!
And I just can't see the Wii U needing for instance a decimal floating point unit in the core....
It would have to be a heavily modified version, not only in terms of off-chip communication, but also within the core itself.

You mean the "Watson" in IBM's press release ? That's the name of the AI that won the Jeopardy game against 2 reigning human champions.

IBM has a research plant in Watson?
I found this about the last blue gene iteration:
(POWER a2 = Blue gene Q).

It's messy imho, most likely the site refering to Watson have no clue about what the chip really is, or what IBM refers at "Watson".

This Watson is probably IBM's TJ Watson lab in NY ?
http://www.watson.ibm.com/index.shtml

I think they are the ones who created the "Watson" project above.

 

[obonicus]

I thought Austin did most of the processor work.

 

[patsu]

*shrug* The supercomputer may be there to run applications. The processor guys may/should not need to baby the computer.

 

[wsippel]

Nah - too irregular and too much logic. But I would still be wary of overinterpreting it.
I still haven't seen anything from IBM about just what cores the CPU is based on. It's unclear if that "Watson" comment is from Engadget or from within IBM. If it is from within IBM though, that would point to Power7. But an 8-core power7 is 567mm2 at 45nm SOI, and even cut in half it's a monster of a chip for the Wii U. Hell, even a fourth of a Power7 (is dual-core=multi-core?) would be just under 150mm2 which is 10 times larger than the Wii CPU on 90nm!
And I just can't see the Wii U needing for instance a decimal floating point unit in the core....
It would have to be a heavily modified version, not only in terms of off-chip communication, but also within the core itself.

That die shot floating around right now was actually released all the way back in early 2007. It's a die shot of IBMs very first prototype eDRAM implementation.

 

[Kaotik]

Hell, even a fourth of a Power7 (is dual-core=multi-core?) would be just under 150mm2 which is 10 times larger than the Wii CPU on 90nm!

I don't understand why people think Wii CPU or GPU size, power etc matter even tinyest bit when it comes to Wii U

 

[mikiex]

I don't understand why people think Wii CPU or GPU size, power etc matter even tinyest bit when it comes to Wii U

It does matter, because if it is as powerful as the others there will be a period you can cross develop between PS3/XE/WiiU with no pain.

If the WiiU was much more powerful the others will push there plans forward for the next console.

If the WiiU has a DX11 class GPU it will give developers a nice platform to do some R&D for the next consoles also

 

[DuckThor Evil]

It does matter

Read again what you quoted. Although I don't think Entropy's point was to make a correlation between the Wii and Wii U cpus, just threw a tidbit out there.

Imo while the form factor has grown a bit, I wouldn't expect a very powerful system, coupled with the fact that even 2x power increase doesn't mean "2x visuals" I think the games are going to look about the same as on other systems. I do expect atleast 1GB of ram, at most the gpu is going to be "2x xenos", but I'm expecting somewhat less. CPU 3-4 cores updated xenon.

 

[wsippel]

Read again what you quoted. Although I don't think Entropy's point was to make a correlation between the Wii and Wii U cpus, just threw a tidbit out there.

Imo while the form factor has grown a bit, I wouldn't expect a very powerful system, coupled with the fact that even 2x power increase doesn't mean "2x visuals" I think the games are going to look about the same as on other systems. I do expect atleast 1GB of ram, at most the gpu is going to be "2x xenos", but I'm expecting somewhat less. CPU 3-4 cores updated xenon.

The case might only be slightly larger (42%), but all the additional space is in the CPU/ GPU compartment, and the whole Gamecube compatibility stuff is gone. There's a lot more room inside and considerably more air flow.

 

[DuckThor Evil]

There's a lot more room inside and considerably more air flow.

Yes compared to the Wii... a console that had ancient tech with tiny powerdraw even when it launched 5 years ago. The new chassis is still small compared to other current gen consoles, which have had multiple design changes with their chips already. To me it looks like the powerdraw has to be less than what the X360s is drawing today and while Nintendo will have access to some advances, and newer design, I think that'll only get you so far. IBM has already stated that the CPU will be on 45nm, so at full tilt it probably wont have much lower power consumption than Xenon, if it's more powerful. The GPU and the amount of RAM are where I expect the Wii U have better edge.

 

[pc999]

Have you people seen todays inexpensive laptops or mac minis

Those that are much more powerful than PS360 (eg i3, 380+5650, 4+1Gb), a lot smaler, with a lot more of stuff (like a batery, a HDD, a keyboard ...)...

Serious being designed for it, with the console business model behind it really is possible to have a powerful console in such a small space at around 250$.

 

[ninzel]

It will be interesting to see how MSony respond to this WiiU over the next year.
Do they have any choice now but to see Ninty once again as direct competitor and how will
the rumours specs effect their own plans?
I know there has been talk of Sony being less bold next gen with PS4 but what about MS?
Pure hypothetical speculation here.
Ninty keeps their price and specs quiet for as long as possible hoping to draw out MSony.
MSony assuming the WiiU is only a slightly upgraded PS360, downgrade their own plans in response.Still making their own systems true next gen but less so than originally planned. They tip their hat more openly about specs and Ninty responds by slightly upgrading the Wiiu specs at the last minute placing it more squarely between PS360 and PS4 Xbox720.

 

[ninzel]

Have you people seen todays inexpensive laptops or mac minis

Those that are much more powerful than PS360 (eg i3, 380+5650, 4+1Gb), a lot smaler, with a lot more of stuff (like a batery, a HDD, a keyboard ...)...

Serious being designed for it, with the console business model behind it really is possible to have a powerful console in such a small space at around 250$.

I have a Mac Mini which is rumoured to cost about $375 to manufacture( 2009 est. ) And it's no gaming machine by any stretch.
2 Ghz Intel Core Duo
512 MB RAM
Intel GMA X3100 GPU
Now I guess if you removed the cost of the HDD and used it to upgrade the GPU it would be ok but still at what cost?
Could Nintendo build something like a Mac Min with solid gaming capabilities for less than $250 for example?

 

[DuckThor Evil]

Have you people seen todays inexpensive laptops or mac minis

Those that are much more powerful than PS360 (eg i3, 380+5650, 4+1Gb), a lot smaler, with a lot more of stuff (like a batery, a HDD, a keyboard ...)...

Serious being designed for it, with the console business model behind it really is possible to have a powerful console in such a small space at around 250$.

Well Mac Mini has a dual core processor and frankly a pos GPU, that is not as good as the ones in current gen consoles. Mobile 5650 falls inside the range I gave (2x xenos)

 

[pc999]

It will be interesting to see how MSony respond to this WiiU over the next year.
Do they have any choice now but to see Ninty once again as direct competitor and how will
the rumours specs effect their own plans?
I know there has been talk of Sony being less bold next gen with PS4 but what about MS?
Pure hypothetical speculation here.
Ninty keeps their price and specs quiet for as long as possible hoping to draw out MSony.
MSony assuming the WiiU is only a slightly upgraded PS360, downgrade their own plans in response.Still making their own systems true next gen but less so than originally planned. They tip their hat more openly about specs and Ninty responds by slightly upgrading the Wiiu specs at the last minute placing it more squarely between PS360 and PS4 Xbox720.

I dont think they will react, for now

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-06-09-id-cautious-over-wii-u-development

Third partys (I have seen similarcomments from EA and Activision) like not to have to invest so soon and so much in gfx/engines/tools/editors and use the existing user base,now possible even larger with Wii easy ports

Toomucg money to be done (unlike Wii) at this moment to wast the current momentum.

I have a Mac Mini which is rumoured to cost about $375 to manufacture( 2009 est. ) And it's no gaming machine by any stretch.
2 Ghz Intel Core Duo
512 MB RAM
Intel GMA X3100 GPU
Now I guess if you removed the cost of the HDD and used it to upgrade the GPU it would be ok but still at what cost?
Could Nintendo build something like a Mac Min with solid gaming capabilities for less than $250 for example?

2009 to 2012 plus no HDD.

Plus the business model is so different having less middle men, custom chips, plus that it even cost a lot less to produce and they usually have much lower profit margins, as they dont get 100s$ from a iPad like Aple.

Well Mac Mini has a dual core processor and frankly a pos GPU, that is not as good as the ones in current gen consoles. Mobile 5650 falls inside the range I gave (2x xenos)

See, it is easly possible with off the self components, certainly it is with custom chips.

 

[Squilliam]

I still think 2013 would be a good year for Microsoft. They'll be able to take advantage of Windows 8 development and base their new console off that design.

 

[ninzel]

2009 to 2012 plus no HDD.

Plus the business model is so different having less middle men, custom chips, plus that it even cost a lot less to produce and they usually have much lower profit margins, as they dont get 100s$ from a iPad like Aple.



See, it is easly possible with off the self components, certainly it is with custom chips.

I imagine Apples business model is similar in 2012 to 2009. The Mini has always been Macs least profitable kit. It sells for about $700 today so assuming a similar markup the manufacturing cost would be about the same or more about $400?
And that price it's still not much of a gamer
Dual core 2.4 GHz
Nvidia 320m
2 GB
Remove HDD.
Retail price estimates for WiiU seem to be about $300.
How much profit does Nintendo want to make his time?
Could Nintendo shave at least $100 of the cost manufacture the WiiU( compared to Mini) and still deliver something better than a Mini.
I guess they have to.

 

[AlNom]

I still think 2013 would be a good year for Microsoft. They'll be able to take advantage of Windows 8 development and base their new console off that design.

I'd prefer 2014 just for a more comfortable position in memory and process node technologies that are on the cusp of advancing (DDR4, mature 28nm) in the next two years.