Playstation 3 e3 thread 3

[Laa-Yosh]

The matter of fact is, KZ and Motor storm demos looked the most impressive of the bunch. Motor Storm also noone seemed to believe was realtime, then the screenshots came out and it became pretty obvious that it was. As for KZ noone has a proof either way. With all due respect I have no idea who you are or how valid your sources are.

Repeat: a friend of mine has been working on the KZ animation in an english studio and he has confirmed that it is prerendered. This is proof enough for me, and certainly more reliable than Sony's marketing (who, by the way, have never said that KZ is realtime!)...
And by the way, he and others in the industry too, have been hinting for months that many next-gen 'demos' are going to be prerendered because the hardware is not yet ready.

And, er, do you have any proof that MotorStorm is realtime?

 

[rabidrabbit]

Hehe I'm just watching the Kutaragi Ken speech in Sony Pre E3 Conference.

"PrayStation" hehehe

hehe

heh




I think the characters, at least Aeris was well modelled and rendered, with nice hair and features. Not much texturing on her shirt if that's what you mean

 

[zidane1strife]

It really doesn't matter whether it's cg or not, IMHO, so long as they're being done to sim stuff that's within the parameters of the h/w(animation/texture/verts/precision/physics/IQ/number of shaders... etc)

EDIT
That is to say that they're an adequate representation of what the h/w's capable of...

And given Rein's comments, that fight night/ffvii/ue3 are said to be realtime, i'd say it seems it's so.

 

[kofman]

heh, from the marketing spin that all of these companies do, I wouldn't trust anything unless a playable demo is right in front of me.

that being said, sony has done a great job of opening people's eyes.

 

[Laa-Yosh]

A programmer I know mentioned about the KZ movie, that such an amount of scripted action would probably be almost too hard to fit into such small space and time. E.g. timing of the rocket launches, hellghast attacks, arrival of the jeep etc. etc.

It's obvious that a passive demonstration should have a faster pacing; not to mention that CGI prices are based on seconds of animation (and complexity). So real gameplay will probably be less spectacular on a 2 minute scale.

 

[jvd]

It really doesn't matter whether it's cg or not, IMHO, so long as they're being done to sim stuff that's within the parameters of the h/w(animation/texture/verts/precision/physics/IQ/number of shaders... etc)

the problem is in 4 years if this is never acomplished they would have lied to us and we would have eaten it up and we wouldn't learn from our mistakes like we didn't learn 5 years ago

 

[ninelven]

And, er, do you have any proof that MotorStorm is realtime?

Well, there are a fair amount of jaggies in certain places, but I suppose it could be a shoddy pre-render.

 

[rabidrabbit]

So, what are the confirmed xbox360 non prerendered demos then, versus PS3 non-prerendered demos?

Can you list 100% sure what in MS conference were actual xbox360 footage?

If not, then why you keep pushing it here???

 

[zidane1strife]

It really doesn't matter whether it's cg or not, IMHO, so long as they're being done to sim stuff that's within the parameters of the h/w(animation/texture/verts/precision/physics/IQ/number of shaders... etc)

the problem is in 4 years if this is never acomplished they would have lied to us and we would have eaten it up and we wouldn't learn from our mistakes like we didn't learn 5 years ago

5yrs ago? ps2 demos? Those where pretty much all surpassed(except the head one, but we've no floating head games.).

Personally I'd say the most impressive thing about the killzone vid, is not the event/scripting per-se but the way the world was reacting(physics/explosion/etc). I'd figure the cell should be able to handle that.

ed

 

[Slides]

Where can one see the UE3 trailer online?

Thanks

 

[jvd]

The only one is the game that is playing when he jumps onto xbox live and they show it going while he is in the menus doing things .

But at least we know that is realtime


I'm told gow is realtime render . Which i believe means its done real time but they didn't have it running on hardware it was recordered

Doa 4 is real time apparently except for of course the cgi parts . but the fighting parts is real time recorded

PDZ is real time and has been played

Elder scrolls is real time but is recorded

I don't know about any of the others . IF you've heard diffrently let me know

 

[rabidrabbit]

I have no idea

Edit: The Unreal demo was realttime, at least in PS3 where they stopped it and controlled the camera. Looked equally good as Killzone, for which reason I now believe the Killzone demo could be realtime even if it were prerendered

 

[marconelly!]

Repeat: a friend of mine has been working on the KZ animation in an english studio and he has confirmed that it is prerendered. This is proof enough for me, and certainly more reliable than Sony's marketing (who, by the way, have never said that KZ is realtime!)...
And by the way, he and others in the industry too, have been hinting for months that many next-gen 'demos' are going to be prerendered because the hardware is not yet ready.

And, er, do you have any proof that MotorStorm is realtime?

I'm not trying to discredit you or anything, just wanted to post observations of very obvious flaws in that KZ footage that shouldn't be there if it was prerendered. I mentioned shadow glitches and tons of missing shadows (even the basic ones of the characters on the ground) or geometry popup. My best guess is that studio was farmed out to develop models, textures and animation for the whole thing, with imposed limitations (512MB memory restrictions, etc), but the 'rendering' of the produced scene was done using the devkit hardware itself, the same way Deano explained they rendered their own game using in-engine footage or the same way they demonstrated Final Fantasy movie scene being rendered in real time few years ago, with scaled down shaders and assets.

Proof that motor storm is realtime would be to look at the screenshots and notice craploads of obvious aliasing, clipping, faked temporal motion blur and just overal realtime-looking rendering all over the place.

The FF7 tech demo was nice because of the way it zoomed out so you could see the scale of everything. The actual environments and characters weren't all that great looking relatively speaking.

I think Clyde's character was very nice looking, actually (at the end of the demo). However, I'm not a big fan of FF games so the whole imagery left me a bit cold.

So, what are the confirmed xbox360 non prerendered demos then, versus PS3 non-prerendered demos?

Unreal 3 engine demos is about the only thing I can think of. Still an invalid comparision as both ran on dev kits and not final hardware.

 

[Xenus]

I have to say though Square-enix has to be the masters of hair rendering.

 

[rabidrabbit]

I mmust not have seen the complete FFVII demo, as I didn't see Clyde, only Aeris :?

I must say again that I'm very impressed, not too long ago it was not believed teh PS3 could put out graphics anywhere near the quality of Final FAntasy Spirits Within in real time games, but these demos suggest that it's not too far.

And before the xbox360 maniaacs come into rescue, I must say I have seen little xbox360 footage yet, so the same might apply to xbox360 too, but in a slightly lesser effect I'd believe

 

[PC-Engine]

Has it ever occured to you that maybe the stuff you see with jaggies is using the same models as the prerendered stuff???

I mean if they're actually making a game, then wouldn't it be possible that they're burrowing 3d models from the CGI stuff that the game trailer is using???

This has been done before.

 

[Laa-Yosh]

And, er, do you have any proof that MotorStorm is realtime?

Well, there are a fair amount of jaggies in certain places, but I suppose it could be a shoddy pre-render.

Image-based 2D motion blur (only post-processing, no 3D effect) in most offline renderers (Maya, Lightwave, Max) has such an effect, for example.

 

[rabidrabbit]

The jagggies come with the models :?

The jaggies are modeled in, that's why they show in prerendered footage using the jaggy game models

 

[PC-Engine]

The jagggies come with the models :?

The jaggies are modeled in, that's why they show in prerendered footage using the jaggy game models

The screenshots with the jaggies are maybe from the game, that's why they don't look as good as the trailer. The game uses art from the prerendered trailer.

 

[ninelven]

I didn't notice any with Kill Zone... and I don't see conclusive evidence either way.