Playstation 3 e3 thread 3

[London Geezer]

Yeah that was pretty interesting especially the comment on how each leaf could have its own sound channel. I highy doubt CELL could generate 1 million individual sound channels. Sounds farfetched to me and just adds to the smoke and mirrors.

If i hear smoke and mirrors again i'm gonna have an ictus.

I'm watching the video without sound so i missed that part about the sounds... anything interesting after that part? Cause it's just LONG and i should do some work

 

[PC-Engine]

PS3 is not twice as powerful as Xbox360. Only the cpu is twice as powerful and that's on paper.

 

[pakotlar]

BLOODY HELL!

Did you guys see in the conference video, the demo where they show the yellow and red leaves, there's millions of them! all with wind physics applied...

PRETTY!!

Yeah, that was very cool. I imagine that we will get 30% higher poly counts that we have seen so far in UE3 along with HDR lighting, AA, normal maping, 2k texture resolutions, and several hundred instruction length shaders by 2nd or 3rd generation software. I do not expect anything better than this from the PS3 or Xbox360. But really, that is an amazing amount of processing power!

 

[Pugger]

Duckroll over at GA is saying that KZ was pre-rendered. Seems to me that Sony have been taking slight liberties, but hey they know how to push a console unlike MS.

 

[SedentaryJourney]

Sony and Nvidia were on top of their game when it came to showcasing the technology behind the PS3. There was a serious deficit of technology demos from the Microsoft camp, which tipped the balance in favour of Sony's conference. I thought the old XNA demos were rather impressive, where'd those disappear to?

 

[PARANOiA]

Sony definitely knows how to get a crowd salivating! What can we expect out of the rest of the conference?

 

[pakotlar]

Wow, Sony know how to put on a good show.

I recommend everyone watch the full 2hrs conference video that is being streamed here.

javascript:launchGSL("/live/streame...press_e305.asx&pid=927750", "", 718, 500)

If this is some indication of what the next generation holds it is pretty exciting stuff.

Some people seem to be a little disappointed that the PS3 is only twice as powerful as the Xbox360. Considering there is only going to be 5 months between launches, I think this is quite amazing.

Here are some of the things that excited me.

Spring 2006 launch date. (They did not specify Japan, does this mean it might launch in the US at the same time?)

Blu-Ray drive.

1080p resolution. (I'm glad I only have a 480p capable display and have held off buying a crappy 720p display. 1080p is the only way to go.

Two simualtanous 1080p outputs over HDMI. Great for two player gaming, no more split screen. You can use the second output to drive a computer monitor with additional info. All the arguments for the DS are just as valid here.

Always on broadband connection, hopefully Sony will keep it's service free.

Built in Wi-Fi

7 controllers over Blue Tooth (What happened to the multi-tap revenue stream?)

Memory Sticks

Connectivity with PSP

Cool console design, especially the shiny black model, it will do well with my PSP.

Eye Toy demo with the water

Killzone footage

I'm probably still going to hold out for the full writerable Blu-Ray, HD recorder vision, but still a pretty impressive showing from Sony.

The primary advantage of the PS3 vs. Xbox360 will not be the graphics prowress of the one over the other. It is going to be in the dual dvi outputs, 7 wireless controllers, wireless interfacing, and blu-ray disc support. Xbox360 seems to have an advantage with its online plans, including downloadable content, marketplace, etc. A lot of it will come down to the content of the software vs the graphical quality of the software. Think, "I like how Killzone 2 plays compared to Halo 3" rather than "OMG. Killzone 2 pushes 2.18 Tflops of data, while Halo 3 only pushes 1.0 Tflops! Hah!" I'm hoping that physics will be more ubiquitous than last generation. Also, SHADOWS. I want high-res soft shadows generated dynamically, self-shadowing, and the ability to display a unique shadow (whether volume or map) per light source. If you check out Frame City Killers, you will notice that each character on screen has a very beautiful shadow, but only 1 despite multiple light sources. I believe the hardware is capable of more (note for Frame City Killers: this is clearly an outdoor optimization. The problem does not occur indoors. Check out gamespot's E3 video of Frame City Killers here: http://www.gamespot.com/x360/action/framecitykiller/media.html).

 

[PC-Engine]

Sony and Nvidia were on top of their game when it came to showcasing the technology behind the PS3. There was a serious deficit of technology demos from the Microsoft camp, which tipped the balance in favour of Sony's conference. I thought the old XNA demos were rather impressive, where'd those disappear to?

Yeah it's kinda strange that when Xbox launched there was all kinds of tech demos, not so with Xbox360.

Anyway why did Square Enix show CGI footage initially?

 

[mistan]

With the killzone 2 pic, arent we forgetting that the ps3 should be supporting NURBS.
If so then that would completely allow for smooth edges and stuff.
If you take a look at that guys arm to the left, you can see that they used the same effect that they used in Star Fox Adventures and Rare's upcoming conker game for the FUR EFFECT.
I also pointed out a few *flaws* in that pic that makes me think that it is actually real time.

Does everybody remember when everybody thought those EA renders were fake? They were real buddy. In that EA real time demo @ sony's conference...they were fighting in the same place that those head renders were. If light can be seen throught skin(NVIDIA demo for PS3) then why cant killzone 2 be realtime?
That crap was amazing. The dr. octupus real time render was just amazing too.

Also about PS3 having silky smooth fps....and xbox 180 having choppy frames....remember that fight night was REAL TIME and that was as smooth as it gets. There we no visible polys in that, were there? So i think that ps3 actually supports NURBS. EVEN PSP does. Come on now Sweeney only spent 2 months with ps3 dev kits and he was able to do that!!!

chk out my pointers
http://home.ripway.com/2004-10/194670/killz12.JPG


EDIT: Also, since the CELL and RSX are DIRECTLY connected....then the cell could be helping out with all the geometry on screen right. That would explain the higher geometry in ps3 demos. I think that sony has done a great job with its laid back approach. They didnt have ppl screaming and stuff and they still managed to throw everybody in a frenzy, Sony truely does amazing things.

 

[pakotlar]

With the killzone 2 pic, arent we forgetting that the ps3 should be supporting NURBS.
If so then that would completely allow for smooth edges and stuff.
If you take a look at that guys arm to the left, you can see that they used the same effect that they used in Star Fox Adventures and Rare's upcoming conker game.
I also pointed out a few *flaws* in that pic that makes me think that it is actually real time.

Does everybody remember when everybody thought those EA renders were fake? They were real buddy. In that EA real time demo @ sony's conference...they were fighting in the same place that those head renders were. If light can be seen throught skin(NVIDIA demo for PS3) then why cant killzone 2 be realtime?
That crap was amazing. The dr. octupus real time render was just amazing too.

Also about PS3 having silky smooth fps....and xbox 180 having choppy frames....remember that fight night was REAL TIME and that was as smooth as it gets. There we no visible polys in that, were there? So i think that ps3 actually supports NURBS. EVEN PSP does. Come on now Sweeney only spent 2 months with ps3 dev kits and he was able to do that!!!

chk out my pointers
http://home.ripway.com/2004-10/194670/killz12.JPG

Oh dear god. What you are talking about are HOS, and the xbox 360 supports those too. As does every piece of graphic hardware since the radeon 8500 (maybe geforce 3 as well?). I know that the PS2 certainly did. You think that this archaic tech is somehow going to give the PS3 some kind of godly technological advantage? lol. Anyways, enough of that. Here is some commentary on the Killzone footage:

http://ps3.ign.com/articles/614/614924p1.html


edit: Also, if you think the Fight Night demo was completely smooth, watch it again. The low framerate is especially noticeable when they start manipulating the camera. Now I'm not saying it doesn't look amazing, because it does. However, considering that it is 2 characters, in a v. low polygon ring, with a static bump map as the enironment, and that it is running at less than 30 fps in some points, I would have to point at the Killzone video and say "bullshit". Performance in Fight Night will obviously improve as it is running on a beta dev-kit at best (Cell CPU + 6800 U SLI I believe), but the point is that Guerilla is running on the same dev kit, and they have not magically managed to get 2 orders of magnitude more performance out of it.

 

[PC-Engine]

Oh and the EA demo was nothing to write home about. There was only two characters and the environment was VERY simple. Even then the characters didn't have perfectly rounded edges and did I mention only two on screen and a simple background?

 

[-NakedZ-]

Not everyone might agree with me, but I say Sony kinda derail MS' hype. MS say "welcome to the HD Era!" Sony replied "not with non-HD format you wont." MS continue touting the HD theme by announcing all games would support 720p as standard. But Sony replied with 1080p (though I'm not sure if that's for game).

And I'm not really surprise with the two console's power gap. Seeing as their launch frame won't be too far apart. That's a good 4-5 months (base on MS launching on November). E3 is not over yet, so there are still a possibility of a surprise or two (MGS4 trailer, anyone).

Anyway why did Square Enix show CGI footage initially?

You talking about FFXII? Because they were simply promoting it for the PS2, and PS3 for it's BC.

- Z

 

[mistan]

edit: Also, if you think the Fight Night demo was completely smooth, watch it again. The low framerate is especially noticeable when they start manipulating the camera. Now I'm not saying it doesn't look amazing, because it does. However, considering that it is 2 characters, in a v. low polygon ring, with a static bump map as the enironment, and that it is running at less than 30 fps in some points, I would have to point at the Killzone video and say "bullshit". Performance in Fight Night will obviously improve as it is running on a beta dev-kit at best (Cell CPU + 6800 U SLI I believe), but the point is that Guerilla is running on the same dev kit, and they have not magically managed to get 2 orders of magnitude more performance out of it.

Ok Now im skeptical

 

[pakotlar]

Oh and the EA demo was nothing to write home about. There was only two characters and the environment was VERY simple. Even then the characters didn't have perfectly rounded edges with only two on screen and a simple background.

Lol we definetely agree on this point. Check out my edit . You noticed it too! The fighters are not perfectly rounded, framerate is choppy, and the environment is a 3d ring in the foreground, and a low-res 2d image in the background. I think that EA WILL get this quality in the final game, at a smooth 60 fps, with a high poly enironment, but not for a while (at least not until they can get their hands on final hardware).

Also, read DeanOC's write up on Heavenly Sword (a game which he has done a marvellous job on, may I add). It seems that his dev group did not have enough time to put together the demo, AND spend a heck of a lot of time optimizing it, hence the choppy framerates. I assume the same is true for most PS3 developers, as they are just getting their hands on the latest PS3 dev kits. I'm guessing that teams like Guerilla are purposely putting out this fud that they are passing off as real-time specifically because they have not had time with final hardware. I propose that a demo running on actual dev-kits would be much less impressive, and would run at Fight Night - like framerates.

Also, isn't Killzone PS3 based off Renderware? This would add even more fuel to the fire, if both Fight Night and Killzone were running off the same game engine. Someone would have a heck of a lot of explaining to do in this caese

 

[pakotlar]

edit: Also, if you think the Fight Night demo was completely smooth, watch it again. The low framerate is especially noticeable when they start manipulating the camera. Now I'm not saying it doesn't look amazing, because it does. However, considering that it is 2 characters, in a v. low polygon ring, with a static bump map as the enironment, and that it is running at less than 30 fps in some points, I would have to point at the Killzone video and say "bullshit". Performance in Fight Night will obviously improve as it is running on a beta dev-kit at best (Cell CPU + 6800 U SLI I believe), but the point is that Guerilla is running on the same dev kit, and they have not magically managed to get 2 orders of magnitude more performance out of it.

Ok Now im skeptical

hmmm...

 

[V3]

Oh and the EA demo was nothing to write home about. There was only two characters and the environment was VERY simple. Even then the characters didn't have perfectly rounded edges and did I mention only two on screen and a simple background?

And its on Renderware too. EA don't waste time on their purchased.

 

[one]

Because they were simply promoting it for the PS2, and PS3 for it's BC.

Yep, Yoichi Wada of SquareEnix even emphasized the full BC with PS2, that'd assure many developers who are still far from the next-gen front.

 

[Laa-Yosh]

On CGTalk.com, two different sources suggested that Killzone was a prerendered animation, created by a UK studio. We'll have to wait and see, but I think we have every right to be sceptical.

 

[nAo]

I do think it's a prerendered movie

 

[borntosoul]

I think games will most likely be made in 720p/1080i resolution and 1080p will be for HiDef video playback. the presentation for me was extremely glossed(too much for my liking) over -----it even showed how fake some of the nvidia boss's comments were and didnt do sony any service at all--- im not saying that ms is any better. it will be interesting to see how these consols perform (real games) in HI RES for the first time!!! i think that the gpu is underpowered and holding the system back a little bit. i was hoping for more than x2 6800ultra performance--considering theyre going to do HI RES graphics, if it was 480i it wouldnt have mattered as much. I suppose cant have everything for $300.
some of us are expecting a bit too much --including myself.