Middle Generation Console Upgrade Discussion [Scorpio, 4Pro]

[pjbliverpool]

6TF is bang on what the current rumours for the top end Polaris predict. So someone simply used that figure to come up with the 6TF number, or it could very possibly be an almost stock Polaris 10 / 480x. Technically feasible I guess, would certainly be interesting on an APU though and would no doubt need a fairly hefty power budget.

6TF is more reasonable. Even then slightly not realistic, it still makes owning a pascal 1080 quite foolish imo. 900 CAD vs a complete 6TF console at significantly cheaper price. Hard to justify these GPUs.

You always (or at least usually) pay a disproportionate premium for more powerful/faster products. Cars are great example since if you look at mph/£ supercars are a terrible deal. But people still go for them because some people are happy to pay a high premium for a slightly better product.

The latest leaked Firestrike benchmarks put the top end Polaris on par with a Rage Fury (non-X). And the same benchmark also puts the 1080 at about 44% faster than that. The 1070 which is a much more reasonable price is still around 16% faster and you'll probably get more performance/£ with the factory O/C models. Consoles will always offer better hardware value though vs new builds.

 

[Scott_Arm]

From the polygon article

colloquially referred to internally as Xbox One-Two

YES!

 

[AlNom]

From the polygon article
YES!

Which reminds one of the one-two punch.
And if you recall, Atlas tells the player to remember it in Bioshock.
Bioshock, which turns out to be one of infinite worlds. Infinite Earths.
And where have we heard that phrase before? in DC comics, and recently in the Flash season 2 finale when they're battling Zoom.
Zoom. Also a word used in a song in a commercial for Mazda in the 90s.
If you take Mazda and remove the Z, you get Mada.
What's that in Reverse? Adam.
Adam brings us full circle, like some sort of ring or hula hoop, to the substance in Bioshock.

And you know what the acronym of Bioshock can be?

B.S.

 

[eastmen]

6 Tflops GPU in 2017 at a reasonable (edit: console crowd affordable) price point?

I'll believe it when I see it, thank you very much.

Don't sound that far fetched The 290x was 5.6 Tflops. So I could see a drop from 28nm to 14nm giving them a 6tflop chip in a console TDP esp if the cpus don't change much power way

 

[eastmen]

If true with 6 tflops I'd be very surprised if there is cross-compatibility in both directions (that would be stupid). I expect software emulated BC (like X360 on XB1), not 100% hardware. And obviously Scorpio games won't be able to run on XB1. It doesn't look like a Xbox 1.5, more like the true successor of Xbox One.

Call it a second pillar if you want...for now.

Why ? Its running DX 12 or a future DX

They would create a game and scale it either way , just like it works on a PC now. I'm sure the xbox one will get 720p tuned versions and if its true that the new xbox will get the rift they will most likely get 1440p tuned versions

 

[ultragpu]

6tf is very beastly indeed and would make Gears and Halo look very good. I wonder if Sony will postpone their Neo announcement for now and readjust the spec for a more competitive response? They could either launch Neo at year's end and gain a good head start or wait a year to get another tf or two in the machine. But I think the latter option is better for third party and gamers all around.

 

[jiaolu]

xbox next year is zen included confirmed? then would be better than ps4 neo in cpu department.

 

[Transponster]

"6TF" ,- Obvious Polaris, because even cut Vega should be around ~9tf to combat 1080, let alone full chip, that should battle Big Gaming Pascal(at least +30% to 1080), in the fall of 2017? Unimpressive for a "premium console"(which is what New PS4 is), even worse for a brand new next-gen(which is completely pointless on 14nm in 2017) console(unless it's Nintendo).

 

[turkey]

"6TF" ,- Obvious Polaris, because even cut Vega should be around ~9tf to combat 1080, let alone full chip, that should battle Big Gaming Pascal(at least +30% to 1080), in the fall of 2017? Unimpressive for a "premium console"(which is what New PS4 is), even worse for a brand new next-gen(which is completely pointless on 14nm in 2017) console(unless it's Nintendo).

maxing out a top end PC enthusiast monitor is far harder than maxing out the average TV ?

 

[Love_In_Rio]

"6TF" ,- Obvious Polaris, because even cut Vega should be around ~9tf to combat 1080, let alone full chip, that should battle Big Gaming Pascal(at least +30% to 1080), in the fall of 2017? Unimpressive for a "premium console"(which is what New PS4 is), even worse for a brand new next-gen(which is completely pointless on 14nm in 2017) console(unless it's Nintendo).

It would be the nearest new consoles have been from desktop top GPUs since PS2 and Xbox times.

 

[Pixel]

The point all you guys are missing is it doesn't need to be reasonably priced. This could be anywhere from $599-799 in 2017 launch and thats fine. Xbox is now an ecosystem like Philadelphia Spencer said.

Launch year 2017: Xbox Scorpio $599-799, Xbox Slim $250-$299
2018: Xbox Scorpio $550-750, Xbox Slim $199-250
2019: Xbox Scorpio cheaper than last year, Xbox Slim cheap than the previous year

Eventually maybe in the 2020s Xbox Scorpio gets down the original Xbox launch price. And is now the mainline system.

~2020s outlook
Eventually Xbox Libra Zero is launched with even higher spec than Xbox Scorpio.
Low end/retired: Xbox One
Midrange: Xbox Scorpio
Highend: Xbox Libra Zero

~2020s outlook
Libra Zero is x86 so it is backwards compatible with the Xbox Scorpio and Xbox One. Xbox Scorpio is forwards compatible with Libra Zero. Forward compatibility with Xbox One is dropped as a necessity, but remains optional for developers.

 

[Grall]

xbox next year is zen included confirmed?

Confirmed, how could it possibly be? Nothing about this is confirmed; it's all rumors and speculation.

 

[pjbliverpool]

It would be the nearest new consoles have been from desktop top GPUs since PS2 and Xbox times.

That's not even remotely true. If this rumour is true (a big IF) then it points to the XB1-2 being very much in line with a stock 480x. There are two product families in AMD's stack above that (490 and Fury). It's reasonable to expect a Vega based FuryX to be close to twice as fast as the 480x on the basis that the 1080 is already about 44% faster than it in the Firestrike benchmark and Vega will be expected to compete not with that GPU, but with the much faster and yet to be released 1080Ti.

On top of that, isn't this console rumoured to release in late 2017? And it's likely we'll see big Pascal and thus possibly Vega by late 2016. So not only will the top end PC cards be around twice as fast, but they'll have been that much faster for almost a year by the time it launches, thus opening the possibility that we may already have seen faster GPU architectures (Navi, Volta) by that point.

I'd say that it puts it in a worse position than the PS4 when it launched, and certainly worse than the XB360 which compared very well to the top end GPU's of the day.

 

[Rangers]

Kinda sad no new thread for this but we have a 10k pager about Nathan Drake's rendered butt

I know, make it yourself. But I dont like to be presumptive.

Anyways, this fits perfectly with all Spencers comments. He talked about the iterative console, and then he talked about not wanting to do a half step.

GamesBeat: What about Xbox One and a half?

Spencer: I don’t know. Not a big fan of one and a half. I think about what happens in most spaces. If I’m going to move forward, I want to move forward in big numbers.

GamesBeat: Twenty-seven!

Spencer: There you go. But I don’t know anything about any of the rumors out there. I can understand other teams’ motivations, why they might want to go do that. But for us, our box is doing well. It performs. It’s reliable. The service is up. If we go forward with anything, I want to make it a substantial change.

Anyways, this seems like the end of the console model as we know it. I for one am not thrilled. Mainly because you are not going to see 4 or 6 TF used at all. The same game that plays on Xbox Scorpio and PS4k has to play on Xbox One and PS4! Unless the suits quickly abandon that in their great wisdom of changing their minds every 30 seconds...

I also doubt "joe average" has the stomach to buy many $400 consoles. It took my Xbox buddy a year or more to even get Xbox One, most people are not crazy like us.

6TF is pretty high end, maybe "Xbox Scorpio" is meant to last a while? It's hard to see them pushing much higher for a while, due to heat and power concerns. You are pushing somewhat close to top end PC there.

BTW, Spencer is a smarty pants and if you do this move (and each probably forced the others hand, you kind of cant NOT do it now, and let Sony's 4 TFer march all over you, or vice versa) he's doing it the right way going big. I say put this guy in charge of Microsoft.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

6TF is pretty high end, maybe "Xbox Scorpio" is meant to last a while?

I think it'll last as long as it needs to. these are untested waters and the first machines will test them. If the market has no stomach for these upgraded consoles, they'll switch back to a model that does work - longer lifecycles, bigger updates, cost reduce between gens.

 

[Michellstar]

Kinda sad no new thread for this but we have a 10k pager about Nathan Drake's rendered butt

I know, make it yourself. But I dont like to be presumptive.

Well, there was a proper thread that was shut down because the leak was dodgy and the thread ended up derailing...

Maybe now, with further info from Kotaku, it deserves a reopening??

Anyway, I´m most interested with the integration with pc, if it means that Win 10 gets all the goodies from Xbox, ease of use, a pad friendly navigation UI, and of course their exclusives and share online, I´m all in

 

[Transponster]

I think it'll last as long as it needs to. these are untested waters and the first machines will test them. If the market has no stomach for these upgraded consoles, they'll switch back to a model that does work - longer lifecycles, bigger updates, cost reduce between gens.

They are not switching model in the first place, these(New PS4, at least, we don't know full NewBox specs yet) are not upgrade(=replacement) consoles, they are just premium offers over standart ones, coexisting with each other(even longer lifecycle for the original console, if anything), happening only because it's super cheap(compared to previous gen) and AMD has managed to push this idea through to make some money.

Even if they fly, we still should have proper next-gen(with New PS4 being not much closer to PS5 than original PS4, so NO PS4-PS4.5-PS5 mobile-like kind of logic) with another mid-gen premium consoles coming out after node shrink "now offering 2160p+ only"(like New PS4 will offer 1080p+ only), that's about it.

 

[Scott_Arm]

If Scorpio launches at $600, I think it'll flop. $500, max, but the target should be $400 like the PS4 launch.

 

[orangpelupa]

yeah if they can keep it at 400. and then lower PS4 price.. htat is a nice 1-2 punch

 

[McHuj]

I'm really interested to see if MS will put in a new CPU and more RAM or go with the same Jaguar and same RAM amount. I think they should upgrade both.