Middle Generation Console Upgrade Discussion [Scorpio, 4Pro]

[Jay]

Re-watched the video and they only mentioned GPU and memory bandwidth, I believe this is because they want a few surprises up their sleeve for the reveal. 12GB would leave them with almost double the amount of RAM available to developers compared to PS4 and Pro. Think Ultra textures instead of Medium for the PS4 and Pro. It would be a HUGE difference, especially in screenshots, where it really counts for comparative purposes.

MS has only revealed 3 things about the system, one about each main aspect of it.
1. Gpu - tf
2. Memory - bandwidth
3 Cpu - amount of cores.

Anything else is speculation, including 12gb.

No esram is based on white paper leak though.

The only thing I would say about 12gb, is that if it was less, then ms would've come out a long time ago and said that the render is not representative and is just a mock up. But they've knowingly let people speculate based on it. Which would be crazy Imo. I'm not saying the render is in anyway the actual Scorpio board though.

 

[Jay]

Write endurance on SSDs is apparently less of an issue than generally believed.

I've said this before. I think that addressing the storage bottleneck would create a distinctly better user experience and set the console apart from the competition much more than the power difference will.

I feel the same way.
At the reveal (as they've now revealed when it is) they say "a product that's visibly premium" and not just mean graphics.
Start up a game on x1 & Scorpio and your in playing while the x1 is still loading. A patched recore showing dieing and starting level again, and the Scorpio loading the level in fraction of the time, and your back in playing.
Say it's filled with new advances like smart cache that gives developers an additional 5gb of flexible super fast storage.
I really think it could be a good selling point.
Edit : Also considering the assets are going to be bigger, it could help a lot in streaming them etc.

How feasible it is due to wear etc, I don't know but making the Scorpio feel like a premium x1 device. Well to me that would go a long way, probably more than showing few games running at 4k to be honest.
Not just about improving old games, and new games graphically, but making the whole experience better.

they should also, release 4k, 1080p high bandwidth videos from the reveal also. Some with hdr also.

 

[ProspectorPete]

MS has only revealed 3 things about the system, one about each main aspect of it.
1. Gpu - tf
2. Memory - bandwidth
3 Cpu - amount of cores.

Anything else is speculation, including 12gb.

No esram is based on white paper leak though.

The only thing I would say about 12gb, is that if it was less, then ms would've come out a long time ago and said that the render is not representative and is just a mock up. But they've knowingly let people speculate based on it. Which would be crazy Imo. I'm not saying the render is in anyway the actual Scorpio board though.

Could the white paper have mentioned the additional RAM?

Also in their PR and marketing material they mention several times "the most powerful GPU ever put in a console", they would/should have stressed the CPU as well. Unless they want some surprises.

MS was never afraid to let people speculate on (non existing) specs or technical advantages, at least looking at the Xbox One PR leading up to the release, which made a total fool of me and make me bet on the wrong horse (Xbox One). I am hoping they will correct my mistake with Scorpio.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

MS was never afraid to let people speculate on (non existing) specs or technical advantages, at least looking at the Xbox One PR leading up to the release...

All the companies do this when it's in their interests (ie. the specs don't look good on paper so don't want that paper visible). Silence can generally be taken as hiding a 'weakness', where of course that weakness doesn't necessarily mean a bad business decision nor something that'll bother most potential customers. But in the information wars, not sharing info that presents your product in worse light than a rival's is good practice. I think everyone learned that with the puerile number chucking of last gen, with the frankly shameful 'total system bandwidth' PR bollocks and the resultant superior performance of the machine with the smaller numbers anyway. Let the games do the talking.

 

[Jay]

Could the white paper have mentioned the additional RAM?

Also in their PR and marketing material they mention several times "the most powerful GPU ever put in a console", they would/should have stressed the CPU as well. Unless they want some surprises.

MS was never afraid to let people speculate on (non existing) specs or technical advantages, at least looking at the Xbox One PR leading up to the release, which made a total fool of me and make me bet on the wrong horse (Xbox One). I am hoping they will correct my mistake with Scorpio.

The white paper didn't mention the amount of ram.
For most people the most important part that represents the power of a machine is the flops of the gpu, rightly or wrongly.
It wasn't a full review, it was more of a teaser. So they've not disclosed any details, including about gpu, only the tf.
It's like a movie teaser trailer where it's a 5sec clip and basically just says name of film.

They said you won't be able to see a big difference in graphics, and for me that's the case, but it's different for each person and I except that.

This would be different though Imo, but I wouldn't put it past any company which definitely includes ms to do stupid things. lol
Also, it would really impact negatively if it was less than 12gb, and they had all this time to realign peoples expectations, by simply saying it's a mock up don't take anything away from it good or bad. Just my view.

 

[ProspectorPete]

If the historically early act of revealing a full year and a half in advance, before their other new product went on sale even, was merely to slow down people jumping ship and buying PS4-family consoles, then MS not correcting the perception that the system will have 12 GB of ram would play into that..

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Your argument fails in every way.

Do you think people are holding off getting a 4Pro because Scorpio has 12 GBs? You think those same people would buy a 4Pro now if word gets out Scorpio has 8 GBs? Seems unlikely.
But then if that's the case, how are those same people going to feel when it turns out MS were faking the chips (remember they knew people would count 12 GBs)? Several million people not getting a 4Pro now because they want a 12 GB Scorpio a year later only for MS to laugh at them over how they've misled themselves?

Deceiving people isn't going to help, and those mockups would be doing that even if an unfortunate oversight. Even if just artist impressions not meant to give details, the PR will backfire. If it's important. And if it's not important, it wouldn't be worth deceiving people over.

Note we're not talking about the typical new console shrouded in mystery here, like PS2 and the Emotion Engine and people not wanting a DC because PS2 was going to have AI and nonsense. We're talking about a deliberately produced motherboard image that MS knew would give rise to speculation of an exact RAM amount. If they wanted to play the FUD game, they wouldn't release specs and would instead release lifestyle quotes and hyperbolic remarks about a new paradigm in gaming, gaming transcending real life, the most powerful box ever, no stats included. Motherboard images would be replaced with smiling 20-something models and happy families.

 

[iroboto]

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-the-curious-case-of-the-durango-devkit-leak

Btw you yourself don't have any source on the 8GB for final Xbox One dev kits, correct? I don't mean retail units which can be in a developer mode, I mean actual dev kits.

You look new here, so I'll speak on behalf of the general population here. If we have sources, doesn't mean we can cite all of our sources. Just because we know things doesn't mean we share things. B3D rep/karma system doesn't revolve around leaking information. It has been heavily around quality of post and knowledge of the topic at hand. The better you can explain a difficult topic the more reputation you get.

We get no reputation on this site for leaking information. When it comes to under NDA material, you're going to have a tough time finding quality sources that would openly break that NDA. You can push people for the information you seek, but no one owes you or the public this information. Our sources are guarded because our sources are real relationships and that's worth plenty more than any reputation you can gain from leaking information.

tldr; if folks here knew information about Scorpio, they wouldn't share it openly. They may... nudge the topic in certain directions.

 

[mpg1]

What is true is that there has been no official talk about how much RAM this will have.

...but I am also assuming Microsoft isn't being careless about misleading speculation on the internet.

 

[iroboto]

What is true is that there has been no official talk about how much RAM this will have.

...but I am also assuming Microsoft isn't being careless about misleading speculation on the internet.

MS has shown in the past that they would close down on inaccurate rumours about their technology/strategy that would unfavorably damage their reputation if not address.

Ie. dGPU. ie. most of what misterxmedia posts.

 

[AlNom]

tldr; if folks here knew information about Scorpio, they wouldn't share it openly. They may... nudge the topic in certain directions.

/slaps @iroboto for revealing secret

 

[ProspectorPete]

Your argument fails in every way.

Do you think people are holding off getting a 4Pro because Scorpio has 12 GBs? You think those same people would buy a 4Pro now if word gets out Scorpio has 8 GBs? Seems unlikely.
But then if that's the case, how are those same people going to feel when it turns out MS were faking the chips (remember they knew people would count 12 GBs)? Several million people not getting a 4Pro now because they want a 12 GB Scorpio a year later only for MS to laugh at them over how they've misled themselves?

Myself, I am waiting out for Scorpio, because of the general perception that it would have a better CPU, 12GB, faster memory as well as a better GPU when compared to PS4 Pro, not to mention better VR capabilities. I mostly play multiplatform titles, and I don't play online so I get to choose which console I want.

Now, if MS is going to remove VR, 12GB, and a better CPU from the equation then I will never buy or touch anything MS ever again. I am an influencer, several family members and friends bought WP because of me, and some of them did not buy a Surface because of me. I will make sure none of my friends ever buy Xbox again if Scorpio is just a Jaguar with a 6TF GPU and 8GB of 320GB/sec memory without any VR options.

 

[Jay]

I will make sure none of my friends ever buy Xbox again if Scorpio is just a Jaguar with a 6TF GPU and 8GB of 320GB/sec memory without any VR options.

out of curiosity what will you be buying then a pc? As it will still be more powerful than ps4 pro

 

[AlNom]

So Windows Phone failed when you bought it, and Surface is doing fine when you didn't.

Gotcha.


Please don't buy Scorpio.

 

[Jay]

So Windows Phone failed when you bought it, and Surface is doing fine when you didn't.

Gotcha.


Please don't buy Scorpio.

surprised they still listen to him lol
still think he's been pulling our legs

 

[ProspectorPete]

out of curiosity what will you be buying then a pc? As it will still be more powerful than ps4 pro

I don't want to use MS Windows on a daily driver machine again.

So Windows Phone failed when you bought it, and Surface is doing fine when you didn't.

Gotcha.


Please don't buy Scorpio.

I bought a Surface Pro 2 and it was a gigantic POS. Windows Phone on the other hand, was a low cost, zero-maintenance, stable system, integrated Skype, with excellent worldwide offline Nokia navigation. Still many light years ahead of Android. MS fucked 8.1 owners by denying the W10 update, and by that native Skype as well.

 

[ProspectorPete]

surprised they still listen to him lol
still think he's been pulling our legs

Your friends and family members will never listen to your tech advise again if you were to offer them ANY surface as a replacement to their iPad. They might even hate you for it, I am not even kidding.

 

[MrFox]

This thread is going well. Everything is fine.

Spoiler

 

[Scott_Arm]

This thread is going well. Everything is fine.

Spoiler

http://gunshowcomic.com/648

 

[Silent_Buddha]

I don't want to use MS Windows on a daily driver machine again.



I bought a Surface Pro 2 and it was a gigantic POS. Windows Phone on the other hand, was a low cost, zero-maintenance, stable system, integrated Skype, with excellent worldwide offline Nokia navigation. Still many light years ahead of Android. MS fucked 8.1 owners by denying the W10 update, and by that native Skype as well.

Huh? I upgraded a Windows Phone running the 8.1 OS to Windows Phone 10. It wasn't a problem. Some phones got a longer delayed release due to having to rework it so it could be installed on phones with smaller firmware. It's possible that WP 8.1 phones with extremely small firmwares may not have been able to run WP10, I'm not sure on that since all the WP 8.1 phones that I had qualified for the WP10 upgrade. Although for some of them, I had to bypass my carrier's approval process as they never approved WP10 for the phone despite WP10 being installable on that model of phone. So I had to go to Microsoft and install directly from them.

Carrier's will block upgrades to WP10 on their phones if they don't want to put the work into validation. But even in cases like that Microsoft are more than happy to let the user upgrade their phone as long as they are aware that by bypassing the carrier, they may lost some functionality in carrier specific applications.

It was the WP 7 to 8 transition where upgrades weren't allowed due to radical changes with the OS kernel.

Regards,
SB