Some of your example aren't CPU related and many of this games are able to run on older consoles with some compromises without changing their mechanism too much. We already have great games with great physics on 360/PS3 and also I don't consider lower number of players in MP deal breaker as it wasn't in BF4 for example.
Middle Generation Console Upgrade Discussion [Scorpio, 4Pro]
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Some of your example aren't CPU related and many of this games are able to run on older consoles with some compromises without changing their mechanism too much. We already have great games with great physics on 360/PS3 and also I don't consider lower number of players in MP deal breaker as it wasn't in BF4 for example.
They are not popular. They are niche games.
D
Deleted member 11852
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And that's why the first words in the sentence you responded to were For years.. Pro and Scorpio will simply not have games that are impossible on PS4/XBO because of the manufacturer's policies. Want Halo 6 with massive open environments with battles with hundreds/thousands of Spartans? Too bad. Not until the XBO is dead. Welcome to the world of Pro/high-end PCs where you hope, just hope, graphics will scale to take advantage of your hardware. Some devs will do it, you know they will, most publishers will request devs "do something" because effort = time = money.
I don't disagree that it's possible for Sony for capitalise on new technologies and be the first to bring it to a console but it's exactly that, they would be capitalising on what others are doing and the technology that others are driving. Ironically if there is any party in this that should be able to do this with greatest effect it's Microsoft because control Direct3D. But even then it's got to the technology that is a) useful and b) generation-defining, like pixel shaders were.
The question asked was 'So I ask again, what value for people who don't replay old games?' so those points I've bolded in your response are redundant here. For the other others, expecting the new OS to be better is not a given. DirectX9 was introduced on WindowsXP and yet it didn't make Vista or Windows 8 any more appealing. The OS, OS features and APIs are largely separate. It's also not a given to expect your old accessories to work. Its definitely not in Sony or Microsoft's financial interests to do this, there is just too much profit in accessories.
Its my interpretation of Cerny et al quotes about PS4Pro not being a new generation, the PS5 will be the next generation and it will be more than just hw refresh.
But outside of the hardware selling monster that the Nintendo Wii was, did they actually push that much software? I mean lets just assume that all Nintendo titles are BC/remakes, how large portion of the total console software sales was that? This is wrong in so many ways in regards to proper data, but its a fun exercise in discussion/arm chair analyzes
Not sure I agree, of course Sony can define a generation, so can MS or anybody else. Its about delivering, showing and marketing a huge upgrade in "eye candy".
For the sake of argument, it's not realistic, but to prove the point. Scorpio runs XB1/PS4 generation games at 4k and then the PS5 comes along and it does it at 8K or if we want to be wild and crazy, PS5 is able to do photorealistic games. Then if Sony is able to convince the public that is true, then they have defined the generation. Who would want a Scorpio or Scorpio +, when you get photorealistic games with the PS5.
I know people are fickle, but they also want "the best"
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Deleted member 11852
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Unless I've missed something, Sony have said:
- "PS4 Pro is not a new generation."
- They don't want PS4 Pro to "blur the lines between generations"
- "We don’t believe that generations are going away."
I know people are fickle, but they also want "the best"
This fallacy has to die. In no market is the 'premium' (i.e. the best) market the largest. The majority of every market on this planet are not willing or able to spend money on "the best".
There are literally people who routinely post this nonsense but who knowingly chose to buy the less powerful Xbox One over a PlayStation 4.
Diablo 3. PS360 supported had to be dropped because it couldn't handle the complexity that the game became. Dreams (should it ever be released!). There could also be lots of background stuff that's not obvious.
Spectrum got a load of ports, so it can be done. But do you really want it to be done?
But if you look at all the hops Sony is going through with the PS4Pro, its not like BC/FC is ensured either. I mean Pro patches withstanding, the boost mode doest not guarantee that the games will even work. Even if PS5/6 got enough power to emulate the PS4, emulation is no guarantee either.
This fallacy has to die. In no market is the 'premium' (i.e. the best) market the largest. The majority of every market on this planet are not willing or able to spend money on "the best".
Wanting and having are different things
What I was trying to say, that even if you do not have the best you probably desire the best. And you most likely know what the best is. Even if you have to settle for an XB1 
Right. I mean there are a handful of things I'd love to see as well which may not even be possible with the best hardware. Star citizen/insane Asscreed worlds are one area that we know would need a strong CPU, but not every game needs that. there are other things like procedural animations and stuff that I think would be a giant leap forward in terms of immersion and generally speaking that type of animations seems locked away much like Ray tracing. Too much effort and not enough return.
I'm certain with more hardware power we can tackle more problems, but like rasterization vs Ray tracing, approximation always seems to be the best bang for buck in games. Seldomly do we need real time GI everywhere
. Just like we wouldn't want neural network AIs I dunno. Anyway I know which way you're going with this. You're heading to the golden land. I have no clue how many generations would be required to get there.
The question asked was 'So I ask again, what value for people who don't replay old games?' so those points I've bolded in your response are redundant here. For the other others, expecting the new OS to be better is not a given. DirectX9 was introduced on WindowsXP and yet it didn't make Vista or Windows 8 any more appealing. The OS, OS features and APIs are largely separate. It's also not a given to expect your old accessories to work. Its definitely not in Sony or Microsoft's financial interests to do this, there is just too much profit in accessories.
Some people don't like to replay old games, but many people may like to play older games that they never had the opportunity to experience before. Also those points aren't redundant because of some people who don't like to replay older games or don't like to have access to those games on newer consoles. Having more options is always better than not having them. People have families, friends and partners who may like to play games, even if those games are old.
Xbox OS, features, services, apps and APIs (DX11/12) on Scorpio won't suffer from same problems that Xbox One had at its launch. Microsoft don't need to build Scorpio OS from zero and users don't need to wait for these features to complete once again, so it's definitely positive. Also Microsoft said that Xbox One accessories will work on Scorpio and I don't expect this policy to change anytime soon. However, they will definitely introduce newer and better options like Elite controller that people tend to buy.
But I'm really curious, why should we discuss about Microsoft and Sony strategies from the perspective of those who don't like to replay older games? Do you think that majority of gamers don't value older games?
So the conservative/realistic estimate of Scorpio specs is:
8 core Jaguar CPU
12GB GDDR5 memory
6TFlop gpu
so assume memory and gpu is locked in...are we looking at the exact same cpu as in PS4 Pro?...or can we see other improvements like higher clocks? how high could the clocks go?
8 core Jaguar CPU
12GB GDDR5 memory
6TFlop gpu
so assume memory and gpu is locked in...are we looking at the exact same cpu as in PS4 Pro?...or can we see other improvements like higher clocks? how high could the clocks go?
Silent_Buddha
Legend
Diablo 3 is a pretty bad example to use for this. Support wasn't dropped because PS360 couldn't handle it, it was dropped because Blizzard didn't want to support an additional 2 platforms when those platforms were seeing their active user bases decrease to what Blizzard considered unprofitable levels.
Diablo 3 currently runs fine on worse hardware on PC. The hardware capabilities aren't the problem. The problem is that it would be 2 additional platforms with low active install bases that must be supported. This problem wouldn't exist with an overlapping "generations" paradigm where each new generation of hardware is compatible with the previous generation of hardware, like PC.
A better example would be the upcoming expansion for FFXIV, Stormblood. They'll be dropping support for PS3 not only due to not wanting to support a dying install base, but they don't want to be limited by the memory restrictions of the PS3. For Heavensward they'd already stated that much of the limitations of the PS4 and PC versions were due to having to work around the memory limitations of the PS3. Gameplay related limitations (how large individual levels could be, what data could be presented to the player, etc.) and not graphics related limitations. This problem would still exist in an overlapping "generations" paradigm as unlike PC you can't just arbitrarily upgrade the amount of memory in the console. If it was only graphics related, then it would be solved by overlapping "generations" similar to Diablo 3.
Regards,
SB
You'll have to link me to prove that. What PS3 equivalent plays high torment levels at 30fps? Diablo 3 could hit some pretty low framerates on PS3 even without the crazy bonuses of armour Sets and the newer skills.
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Deleted member 11852
Guest
Yes, I've never denied this. I'm one of them. So uh... ?
I don't expect Scorpio's native gaming UI to be much, if any, different from Xbox One - just like PS4 Pro is the same as PS4. But going forward I would expect the OS to evolve and perhaps change drastically, just as other operating systems change. Assuming Microsoft do not change the app OS it's reasonable to believe Xbox One apps will work, but it's far from assured.
The same as PS4 accessories working on Pro - and some PS3 accessories like Move. But going beyond these mid-generation bumps? I'm more cynical about both companies desire to sell you new versions of existing accessories.
You can discuss whatever you like, but you chose to respond to a specific question I posed.
So uhh... huh!?!I've seen no evidence to support console gamers feeling this way.
I'm completely expecting the UI on Scorpio will be identical to Xbox One. Unless Microsoft requires potential graphics options for games on Scorpio to be handled at the OS level and not in the game menu...that would be a slight difference...but I don't know why they'd do that...
Tea First
The challenge at the moment, not the coffee one, is that some people like to (re)play older games, others again don't care for it. Question is who is the most profitable for the Console Vendor, Devs and Publisher?
If they could get you to pay for remakes, like Sony has this generation, then that would be perfect for business. But since it looks like MS is not opting for that, does that mean that the BC crowd is so small that its not cannibalization of the new games market? And that its a nice feature on the datasheet to pull in more buyers, worth the investment of time/resource?
Family 16h (Jaguar/Puma) seemed to top out at 2.5GHz with turbo on 28nm. The way turbo worked for F16h meant that max clocks were for one active core in a quad unit.
There's probably not much reason (besides braggin rights) to go crazy beyond PS4 Pro unless there were future plans on there since most devs would be targeting 1.6GHz jaguar for gaming, and should be getting a good handle on it by now.
2.4GHz (+50% over PS4) would be cute. 20/40-> 30/60fps in CPU limited situations. Perhaps more beneficial to split-screen games.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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