Microsoft Xbox Reveal Event - May 21, 2013

[SMOKE]

@smoke

Your 'proof' is pathetic.

Screw it, please tell me how so?

Im not platform specific people, im not pledging allegiance to a console, im trying to spend money but not too much of it if I dont have too on something I love to do when I have time along with my kids.

So quit with the vague rude posts, point out to me where I shouldnt have the concerns I have about what I been talking about. Im pretty sure its nice to hold out hope for the console you love and want to protect their image for them. As of right now in the eyes of the hardcore and the people who frequent forums regarding these systems, MS X1 is looking tarnished right now no matter how you feel or how much you try to read between the lines of whats been said and written.

MS cant even make sense of all this and neither can you, GTFU!

 

[SMOKE]

Two weeks is plenty of time. They only have to reveal their tweaked DRM philosphy not show that their system is functional.

Sony is in the same boat. They haven't fleshed out their system yet. There is no point in "we're listening" if your system is set in stone. DRM is a fluid situation for both consoles.

Not worried about Sony sir, they have responded more to this issue than MS ever had and they made it clear in their conference the moment it started and have done so since then even today stating " they stand by what they said about used games back in Feb".

Now until they say otherwise or more credible rumors crop up, then I will be the same towards them as thats my go to platform for most of my gaming.

I cant just assume both will do the same thing when it took MS almost 5months to confirm always online and their no used game policy.

 

[blakjedi]

So
1. Games can be sold.
2. Games cannot be traded or lent easily. At least there is the option to deactivate a game from your console so that there is only one playable copy of each game purchased.
3. Games in the same household can be used on linked accounts so that MS can account for the IP.

Waiting on clarity about the use in a disconnected state. Disabling a console and game purchase because there is no internet is a very silly policy imho. IF you could have your broadband always up you naturally would. I think they need to scrap that altogether.

Is that it? Did it really take four pages to suss that out?

 

[SMOKE]

So
1. Games can be sold.
2. Games cannot be traded or lent easily. At least there is the option to deactivate a game from your console so that there is only one playable copy of each game purchased.
3. Games in the same household can be used on linked accounts so that MS can account for the IP.

Waiting on clarity about the use in a disconnected state. Disabling a console and game purchase because there is no internet is a very silly policy imho. IF you could have your broadband always up you naturally would. I think they need to scrap that altogether.

Is that it? Did it really take four pages to suss that out?

To the bolded...

This was the "reactionary" response in light of what Phil said earlier that evening that prompted an immediate spin. So why should we hang our hats on a PR spin to calm down the presses?

Thats all im asking.

 

[MrFox]

Not worried about Sony sir, they have responded more to this issue than MS ever had and they made it clear in their conference the moment it started and have done so since then even today stating " they stand by what they said about used games back in Feb".

Now until they say otherwise or more credible rumors crop up, then I will be the same towards them as thats my go to platform for most of my gaming.

I cant just assume both will do the same thing when it took MS almost 5months to confirm always online and their no used game policy.

No, Sony haven't. They said much less than MS. They said it's not decided yet, and only talked about the minimum to be expected (you buy a game and it works, it doesn't need an internet connection to play a single player game, and it doesn't block used-games). A LOT can be interpreted in the PR wording. It could cost $20 to reactivate a used game, or the disc burn in flames, and it still wouldn't make them lie.

MS however seems to be saying and implying something different and avoiding the actual questions, depending on the skill of the person being interviewed. It's a big mess because two microsoft employees spoke way too soon about it, now they flip flop all around.

We still don't know how far Sony will go, because it's not decided.

If you're that passionate about it, you should join the NoDRM campaign. Assuming what the companies will or will not do is counter-productive. (I'm talking to everybody here)

 

[XpiderMX]

They need to clarify some scenarios, for example:

- What will happen if my router is dead? my internet company takes about 3 days for replacements.
- What will happen is after a power outage my internet signal is not working? will the console allow to play my games?

If they implement some DRM on disc, for example, if internet is down, then I need to put the disc to play, it will be fine for me.

 

[blakjedi]

To the bolded...

This was the "reactionary" response in light of what Phil said earlier that evening that prompted an immediate spin. So why should we hang our hats on a PR spin to calm down the presses?

Thats all im asking.

Thats not exactly right tho... Phils description was that every use was basically gonna be considered a sale, even if its just a loan.

That is different from a resale policy which is straight forward.

 

[SMOKE]

No, Sony haven't. They said much less than MS. They said it's not decided yet, and only talked about the minimum to be expected (you buy a game and it works, it doesn't need an internet connection to play a single player game, and it doesn't block used-games). A LOT can be interpreted in the PR wording. It could cost $20 to reactivate a used game, or the disc burn in flames, and it still wouldn't make them lie.

MS however seems to be saying and implying something different and avoiding the actual questions, depending on the skill of the person being interviewed. It's a big mess because two microsoft employees spoke way too soon about it, now they flip flop all around.

We still don't know how far Sony will go, because it's not decided.

If you're that passionate about it, you should join the NoDRM campaign. Assuming what the companies will or will not do is counter-productive. (I'm talking to everybody here)

Looked into that NoDRM campaign, money speaks volumes, so ill do my part for the sake of my kids, I buy my games brand new for myself so im not worried about DRM from Sony, but their has been no flip flopping from them regarding DRM on their system. They even answered what was there stance on it in a recent article that pooped up today.

But its cool, didnt mean for this to get out of hand

 

[dobwal]

Not worried about Sony sir, they have responded more to this issue than MS ever had and they made it clear in their conference the moment it started and have done so since then even today stating " they stand by what they said about used games back in Feb".

Now until they say otherwise or more credible rumors crop up, then I will be the same towards them as thats my go to platform for most of my gaming.

I cant just assume both will do the same thing when it took MS almost 5months to confirm always online and their no used game policy.

In the DRM realm, Sony's track record is hardly admirable.

 

[phil-t]

Not worried about Sony sir, they have responded more to this issue than MS ever had and they made it clear in their conference the moment it started and have done so since then even today stating " they stand by what they said about used games back in Feb".

You might want to read this..
http://kotaku.com/sony-wont-answer-these-questions-about-ps4-drm-and-use-510477281

Basically all they've said is you can play Used Games on the PS4.. As have MS about the XB1.

What they are deliberately not answering (as the article proves) is if they are also going down the DRM route..

Everyone needs to wait until E3 (presumably when we'll know the full breadth of all the policies) before jumping to any conclusions, but it seems that was too much to ask.

It's not like a want DRM in any form, but I am happy with iOS/Android and Steam, where there is zero reselling allowed, but they do offer other benefits.

 

[SMOKE]

Thats not exactly right tho... Phils description was that every use was basically gonna be considered a sale, even if its just a loan.

That is different from a resale policy which is straight forward.

Ok, im completely lost here, it is a sale if I lend you my game without my account info for you to play it on as per this section of his comment...

Basically if you want to lend a game to a friend they can either log into your account to play it for free, or pay for the game (probably at full retail price) if they want to play it on their Xbox Live account. This is because games are no longer really being sold, they’re being licensed. The physical disc is just a delivery system, and the “bits on the disc” are not as important as the code downloaded to your hard drive.

What im trying to say is this, a guy who was just Leading figure for Sony, Atari and now Sony...

Was just asked a question about our DRM Used game policy. Why wouldnt my response to something so critical be like any other answer when their are multiple choices to provide.

"Well, we have different things we are thinking about doing in regards to Used Games"

As opposed to a straight up answer...

"Basically if you want to lend a game to a friend they can either log into your account to play it for free, or pay for the game (probably at full retail price) if they want to play it on their Xbox Live account. This is because games are no longer really being sold, they’re being licensed. The physical disc is just a delivery system, and the “bits on the disc” are not as important as the code downloaded to your hard drive.

Maybe it was a slip of the tongue, im not disputing games physically cant be resold, its the other fee's that are associated with it that concerns me. Its gonna cost to borrow unless you use the persons account to play their game.

But like i said I digress, i'll check back in a couple weeks on the matter

 

[AzBat]

As a parent I never just unplugged my kid's Xbox to keep them from getting on the "internet". I used the family tools on the console to setup their accounts to block certain things I didn't want them doing(voice & video chat, buying content, etc) & password protected certain things that I allowed them to have, but only when I chose. I can understand if it's too confusing & you just don't want to mess with it, but Microsoft has been very proactive about helping parents.

As for people having problems with bad Internet every time it storms. I currently live in western Arkansas, but before that I was born & raised in Oklahoma. I've always lived in Tornado Alley. I get some of the worse thunderstorms in the nation. And I've been on the Internet since 1995 & I have never once had storms knock out any of my equipment(internal & external modems, routers, PCs, consoles, TVs). If you have that many issues with your Internet, you're an _EXTREME_EDGE_CASE_. It might be time for you to rethink a few things. Dependence on the Internet is only get worse from here on out.

Tommy McClain

 

[SMOKE]

You might want to read this..
http://kotaku.com/sony-wont-answer-these-questions-about-ps4-drm-and-use-510477281

Basically all they've said is you can play Used Games on the PS4.. As have MS about the XB1.

What they are deliberately not answering (as the article proves) is if they are also going down the DRM route..

Everyone needs to wait until E3 (presumably when we'll know the full breadth of all the policies) before jumping to any conclusions, but it seems that was too much to ask.

It's not like a want DRM in any form, but I am happy with iOS/Android and Steam, where there is zero reselling allowed, but they do offer other benefits.

You know what, its the questions and anticipation of these events that drives forums and keeps them alive. If there was nothing to discuss because we all "should wait for said event", then how dead and lonely of a place would this be?

Dont get me wrong I know whats up, I heard wait til the 21st for the past 4 months and i finally made it to the 21st like everyone else and like most people have stated, "when there's Smoke, there's Fire". So are we at a point to where even after the fact to get clarity from people who may have a more clear understanding of a topic that we will just have to keep quiet and wait for release of the console or another press conference/event?

Dont make a public forum into a time piece when some are here to shoot the shit or partake in discussions to pass the time.

Adam Orth gave it up and got fired, Phil Harrison did the same thing but he was totally misunderstood so thats okay because "he was wrong anyway coming from someone who knows something the company doesnt even know of at this time". Perfect and it makes the point I was tryin to make earlier, a bunch or freaking confusion when it has been laid out to us from the get go just like the TV aspect of the system.

 

[SMOKE]

As a parent I never just unplugged my kid's Xbox to keep them from getting on the "internet". I used the family tools on the console to setup their accounts to block certain things I didn't want them doing(voice & video chat, buying content, etc) & password protected certain things that I allowed them to have, but only when I chose. I can understand if it's too confusing & you just don't want to mess with it, but Microsoft has been very proactive about helping parents.

As for people having problems with bad Internet every time it storms. I currently live in western Arkansas, but before that I was born & raised in Oklahoma. I've always lived in Tornado Alley. I get some of the worse thunderstorms in the nation. And I've been on the Internet since 1995 & I have never once had storms knock out any of my equipment(internal & external modems, routers, PCs, consoles, TVs). If you have that many issues with your Internet, you're an _EXTREME_EDGE_CASE_. It might be time for you to rethink a few things. Dependence on the Internet is only get worse from here on out.

Tommy McClain

Wow, Im at a loss for words...

Some people cant help or control the situation they are in, all they can do is make the best of it and with these responses people are sitting on high horses.

I grew up in the hood, seen things most here could only imagine or see on TV, but I was young under the age to do anything financially for myself. Should I have blamed my parents and told them during conception to move their asses out of the hood so I could have a better life for myself?

No, whatever the situation was prior to my birth was what it was, people act like its that damn easy or simple to do. Not many people would just uproot themselves to have better internet for gaming or whatever it is it maybe.

But good for you that you have the perfect internet, power stays on, life situation going for you. Maybe I should write the president to make sure that your history of always online or power outages be the defacto standard for all the US of A.

What a freaking high and mighty response man, well freaking played!

 

[AlphaWolf]

Wow, Im at a loss for words...

Funniest preamble to a half page rant ever.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

As opposed to a straight up answer...

Please stop with the bold. Uses an occasional bold to highlight something of importance within a quote, or for a rare stress where italics isn't enough. Use quote tags to quote someone, and put their name in the quote to differentiate from whoever you're replying to.

eg.

Blah blah

 

[AzBat]

Wow, Im at a loss for words...

<SNIP>

What a freaking high and mighty response man, well freaking played!

No problem. Thank you for such a wonderful tirade. Here in Beyond3D we try to be a little more mature than other boards. We don't always agree on things, but we try to be as civil as possible. Hopefully once E3 is here things will settle down a bit. Then we can all look back at all the ranting that went on before & wonder what we were thinking.

Tommy McClain

 

[wco81]

I think what some people don't seem to understand is that producing a modern console which is just about games will produce something that either makes no money or has very little performance. The multi-media stuff doesn't push games aside it cross-subsidizes it. Microsoft couldn't justify technology like Kinect if it didn't also have a multi-media aspect to it. The internal hard-drive which is an important performance enhancer as well as the Blu Ray drive is again subsidized in part by the multi-media functionality. A few more pixels don't make for a better experience as much as having a new interface. By making the console relevant to more people in the one household and giving it more to do increases the value of the box to justify the performance it has.

They built their brand on gaming.

It may be the case that these other non-gaming components are imposing opportunity costs, or eating up portions of the BOM that could have been used to deliver better gaming performance and experience.

 

[Deleted member 13524]

As for people having problems with bad Internet every time it storms. I currently live in western Arkansas, but before that I was born & raised in Oklahoma. I've always lived in Tornado Alley. I get some of the worse thunderstorms in the nation. And I've been on the Internet since 1995 & I have never once had storms knock out any of my equipment(internal & external modems, routers, PCs, consoles, TVs). If you have that many issues with your Internet, you're an _EXTREME_EDGE_CASE_. It might be time for you to rethink a few things. Dependence on the Internet is only get worse from here on out.

Tommy McClain

Newsflash:

Not.
Everyone.
Is.
American.


Just because you had no internet issues because of whatever happened in wherever you were raised, it doesn't mean that every single person in the world will follow your conditions.
Why is it so damn hard for some people to even conceive the idea that not every country or culture works the same way as north america?

There are jobs in under-developed rural areas, there are jobs where people have to live for many months in countries with dial-up internet connection. There are people in the world who want to play games, have the money to play games and just don't have an always-on internet connection.
It's not an "extreme edge case", it's the case of several millions of people around the world.

Just look at the number of votes in the twitter poll from gamespot:
http://www.gamespot.com/twitter-battle/xbox-vs-ps4/

What country is first in the votes? Is it usa? No.
You think saudi arabia has great internets? I have (many) former colleagues working there, I assure you the internets are not good, even in the "luxury" villas where they stay.


"Rethink a few things"? So someone should stop going out on weekends or quit their jobs to live off of mommy and daddy just to make sure they have Internet all the time to please game developers and publishers?

 

[Nisaaru]

what is there to not understand about tbhis?


They went on to clarify for the logically challenged that of course you could play your disc at his house if you are logged in GT as then you would not be able to play it off your HDD at home. Essentially making sure only ONE copy of game was active at one time.

this is what he was trying to explain to people when they did not follow his logic and jumped to the conclusion that you had to pay for every used game.

NO. You have to pay for every ITERATION that derived from EACH DISC. otherwise people would share installing the game from each disc onto many HDD's.

The whole problem is quite simple to solve. The first buyer of a disc has to control the whole license lock/free situation. If a game is locked you can't install it elsewhere again with the disc until it's unlocked. If you want to share it with your friend. Unlock it from your account, let him install the disc on his system, when he's done he frees the license so you can enable it again for your account with your disc.

Problem solved. No 24h check necessary to sync license states and people can still sell their discs. Has the nice side effect that it would create a lot trouble for GS to check the license state before buying which makes the used game sales business more expensive. It also adds a moral hazard for used disc sales on ebay because the buyer must trust the seller to have freed the license. Wouldn't this be the ideal situation?

So why isn't that used?