Microsoft Xbox Reveal Event - May 21, 2013

[manux]

I think the major complaint was for the expectation that any (re)authorization of disc would be behind a transaction fee which surely would be visible to anybody who has ever before loaned a game from friend.

edit. Btw. I don't care about the physical disc. I would anyway buy all games as digital downloads and not expect to be able to resell them. I got converted to DD only after getting ps vita. There is so much convenience in not needing to change discs.

 

[invictis]

I dont know if this question has been asked so here goes. If I buy a XB1 and buy 10 games for the system and they go down on my live account, what happens if I sell the console? I would expect to be able to sell the console with all games for it and get the money I asked. And then the person buying the console and games should be able to play them? Are MS saying the person who buys my console and games would have to then pay for all the games again?

 

[AzBat]

It's not really known how it will work, but it's looking like you might be able to de-activate those games on that system. If you don't deactivate the games your games would probably still be registered to the box and/or your Live account. Then the new owner could still play them without having to re-purchase them. But if they ever wanted to use those games on a different box I would expect that your account would need to de-activate them first.

Tommy McClain

 

[warb]

I dont know if this question has been asked so here goes. If I buy a XB1 and buy 10 games for the system and they go down on my live account, what happens if I sell the console? I would expect to be able to sell the console with all games for it and get the money I asked. And then the person buying the console and games should be able to play them? Are MS saying the person who buys my console and games would have to then pay for all the games again?

They have said you can sell used games online. I think if someone else installs your disk on another system, they'll have to buy the game to use it, or you can transfer it to their profile.

 

[MrFox]

Aah, a traditionalist. Well, the Atari worked, why would anyone change it? the PS1 worked, why would anyone change it? the PS2 worked... you see where I'm going with this?
The current system of game sales "works", sure, but it is certainly not ideal for the game companies. Just like the video rental companies eventually made deals with the studios to cut them in on the profits, the used game market is going to have to cut the developers in on the profits in the resale market. They could have done it voluntarily and avoided technological measures, but they didn't, so now they won't have a choice.

As a customer, you probably won't notice anything different, you'll be able to trade your games and buy used games.

If they do what I hope they do, and put the onus on the person giving the disc instead of the person receiving the disc, it'll be even easier. You give the disc to a friend and while they have it, you cannot play your copy (unless you pay), get your disc back, and it'll reauthorize on your machine and disable their copy. This solves the problem of buying a disc on ebay and still having to pay, since you won't, it'll just work for anyone holding the disc. (They probably won't do this, because, again, it leaves the used market unchanged, and they really want a cut of the used market)

Also, everyone talks about just leaving your console offline and not updating your license, but that's pretty hard, and would only be a very small percentage of people. You just make it so that if it's been a certain amount of time (a few days, or 24 hours, or whatever) without any net connection whatsoever, you put the game back into "not-authorised" or demo mode unless the user inserts the game disc again. You can skip this check if the user has paid for the license online, since the only way they can transfer that is online, and it would immediately deauthorize their copy. (So for the digital download folks without discs, they can always play offline)

This solves all the legitimate use cases with almost zero impact on the user, except that they can now play without the disc in the drive if they have an (even crappy) net connection.

I'd love that, it would be great if the disc remains the absolute key and digital proof of ownership.

But the big problem which created all the online anger, is their claim that it requires servers to give us permission to do anything with our purchases, and that creates a situation of planned obsolescence. Phil Harrison, Microsoft VP extraordinaire, said it very clearly in an interview with Kotaku:

Kotaku: If I’m playing a single player game, do I have to be online at least once per hour or something like that? Or can I go weeks and weeks?
Harrison: I believe it’s 24 hours.
Kotaku: I’d have to connect online once every day.
Harrison: Correct.

WTF is wrong with these guys?

 

[egoless]

Anyone else thinks MS come up with the cloud computing when they knew they were going to have a less powerful console?

"Ok, we don't have an 1.8 TF GPU, but we have the clouddd"

No, it was in the plan from the very start.

http://gamingbolt.com/jonathan-blow-criticizes-microsofts-claim-of-increasing-servers-to-300k-calls-it-a-lie

Jonathan Blow is also angry at the lies MS is propagating regarding 'teh Clooud Power' !

Nah, I think he's on the money, MS are spruiking the as yet unknown value of their cloud processing to divert attention from the power deficit with the PS4.

Interesting that you hang on and quote bkilian's posts for months until now.

I wonder how many of those exclusives are largely Kinect experiences (i.e. Kinect Sports, Kinect Training...), thus immediately dismissed, and therefore adding fuel to the "core" vitriol. Also, PGR had spectator mode at launch so Live did achieve that (can't remember if that was in this thread or not about unrealized Live features in relation to the talking points in this Reveal Event).

Carry on.

 

[AzBat]

WTF is wrong with these guys?

Hey it could be the publishers are the ones who requested this & not Microsoft. EA dropping the Online Pass system sounds like they were getting something else in return. I don't buy that they did it because it was unpopular.

Tommy McClain

 

[MrFox]

Hey it could be the publishers are the ones who requested this & not Microsoft. EA dropping the Online Pass system sounds like they were getting something else in return. I don't buy that they did it because it was unpopular.

Tommy McClain

Yep, it has to be the publishers who requested it! There's a lot of crap happening right now behind closed doors, and that's why we think they are "flip-flopping". If the publishers request them to have 32GB and sell them at a $300 loss, will MS and Sony whimper and comply? Watch the conference again, look which third party showed up, claiming they inked a strategic partnership with MS, the one which wasn't at Sony's conference. Now Sony will have to follow, otherwise they'll lose major titles. We're all fucked, because some people at MS have no backbone. If both companies would have said NO, we wouldn't be in this position. (this is conjecture, btw, thank you)

 

[manux]

Yep, it has to be the publishers who requested it! There's a lot of crap happening right now behind closed doors, and that's why we think they are "flip-flopping". If the publishers request them to have 32GB and sell them at a $300 loss, will MS and Sony whimper and comply? Watch the conference again, look which third party showed up, claiming they inked a strategic partnership with MS, the one which wasn't at Sony's conference. Now Sony will have to follow, otherwise they'll lose major titles. We're all fucked, because some people at MS have no backbone. If both companies would have said NO, we wouldn't be in this position. (this is conjecture, btw, thank you)

If it was the case of big publishers pushing sony/ms I wish one of them would call the bluff. Generational transition is perfect chance to shake the equilibrium of yearly sequels. Especially so if consumers are feeling they are getting ripped off with the old choice. It's not like EA is making the only soccer or nhl game. NFL might be different story though.

 

[Dave Baumann]

Bear in mind that these high end games are already costing pretty much in terms of production costs even on the current generation. With a hike in hardware capabilities for a new generation production costs are likely to take another hike. With the overall hardware user base unlikely to significantly grow (in fact be much smaller for a good few years of a new cycle) pubs have to have a viable business model which means either higher retail prices, shorter game completion time (with more episodic content) or trying to curtail/recoup from used sales.

Pick your poison.

 

[Blazkowicz]

I dont know if this question has been asked so here goes. If I buy a XB1 and buy 10 games for the system and they go down on my live account, what happens if I sell the console? I would expect to be able to sell the console with all games for it and get the money I asked. And then the person buying the console and games should be able to play them? Are MS saying the person who buys my console and games would have to then pay for all the games again?

Maybe you would have to sell your account along with your console, potentially breaking the Terms of Service (i.e. with Steam, you can sell your account but it is "forbidden" so you have to not tell them about it, and of course you relinquish the e-mail accont that was tied to it)

 

[MrFox]

Bear in mind that these high end games are already costing pretty much in terms of production costs even on the current generation. With a hike in hardware capabilities for a new generation production costs are likely to take another hike. With the overall hardware user base unlikely to significantly grow (in fact be much smaller for a good few years of a new cycle) pubs have to have a viable business model which means either higher retail prices, shorter game completion time (with more episodic content) or trying to curtail/recoup from used sales.

Pick your poison.

Do you mean something like 20 million to get an exclusive license for the sport or film franchise, 20 million in aggressive publicity which makes indies invisible, and 10 million to make the actual game? Yes they cost a lot don't they? It's 5 times more than they should if they weren't using predatory business practices. (conjecture again)

 

[manux]

Bear in mind that these high end games are already costing pretty much in terms of production costs even on the current generation. With a hike in hardware capabilities for a new generation production costs are likely to take another hike. With the overall hardware user base unlikely to significantly grow (in fact be much smaller for a good few years of a new cycle) pubs have to have a viable business model which means either higher retail prices, shorter game completion time (with more episodic content) or trying to curtail/recoup from used sales.

Pick your poison.

The funny thing is that guys like this might end up being the victors http://reset-game.net/ These guys are doing some really good stuff while using technology to lower the cost of entry rather than seeing better hardware as being more costly to develop on.

If the value is not there then it's not there. EA keeps pushing out same crap on different covers and wonders why sales are not so stellar.

I think there is point in growing costs but not everything needs to be more and more costlier. There are alternatives. Ultimately it's going to be the consumer that decides where to put money not the developer or publisher.

edit. And I do like short experiences. I just hate repetition in games. I'm quite ok. with single player games lasting 6-10 hours as long those hours are unique, not repetitive and fun new experiences(like heavy rain was...)

 

[wco81]

Bear in mind that these high end games are already costing pretty much in terms of production costs even on the current generation. With a hike in hardware capabilities for a new generation production costs are likely to take another hike. With the overall hardware user base unlikely to significantly grow (in fact be much smaller for a good few years of a new cycle) pubs have to have a viable business model which means either higher retail prices, shorter game completion time (with more episodic content) or trying to curtail/recoup from used sales.

Pick your poison.

These publishers put out sequels to these big franchises every year. Apparently not having problems making money or else they'd stop at some point?

I think they're just trying to capture additional revenues, which is their right. However, if they make it harder to sell games because the effective prices of used games become higher (activation fee), then I think new game sales could be adversely affected.

How many people buy new games at full price with the intent to re-sell when finished? They may be able to buy new games because they get some money back from the previous new games they bought and sold.

Other theory about EA doing away with the online passes is that they may be more interested in DLC sales to those who bought their games second hand. DLC is a big part of the business, it seems, because you'll notice that the exclusive content for a given console is now exclusive DLC content that you have to purchase as an additional cost.

 

[RenegadeRocks]

Huh? You, like most of the other internet, are asking for answers to questions that don't exist.

The article was very straight forward. You buy a game, you put the disc in, it marries to your console and installs on the HDD, and you don't need the disc any more.

It also says that if you are playing single player games you don't need to be on line.

I don't get what is confusing or complicated about any of this.

If you installed a game and are playing in multiplayer online then the system will use its 24 hour authentication process in order to make sure no more than one copy of a single game is being used at the same time.

Do you want to pirate games? Because it seems like it will still be possible, the only issue is that everybody using a copy of that game will have to play off line and single player, otherwise there's only a 24 window before that game license gets shut down.

I really do not understand the confusion here, MS hasn't been wishy washy on this. They've said it repeatedly and very clearly.

BTW - Cyan, I do get your sarcasm and humor, just repeating the facts for the clinically retarded.

I am not in the battle, but sir, Harrison clearly said u have to be online every 24 hours even if u r playing SP. Even Steam doesn't ask me to do that, once I have bought a game I can safely go offlnie for months and keep playing the game. If this dDRM isn't draconian , then what is it ?

Its actually like mom and dad ! When a kid, although the expensive toy was mine, I had to ask mom before playing with it ! See, MS is so family friendly !

 

[Tap In]

Since there are many scenarios that we can come up with that would effectively (seemingly) accomplish the goals we think MS is aiming for, WITHOUT being AO, then I am assuming the AO is based more on their desire to have the Cloud be promised to the devs to use as a 100% user base experience... the Orth outrage along with Sim City kind of put a damper on that plan.

AO doesn't bother me as I have not had my 360 disconnected from net for 7 years and was looking forward to someone expanding the use of new technology.

I do agree they should have some method by which you can play offline if necessary


bkilian's ideas sounded pretty good

 

[(((interference)))]

Interesting that you hang on and quote bkilian's posts for months until now.

Uh no, saying MS is spruiking cloud compute to distract from unfavourable power comparisons with the PS4 does not contradict bkilian's post that cloud compute was always part of their plan - I'm sure it was.

 

[fehu]

Just asking
there's someone that thinks that the external shape of the one and kinect 2 are extremely horrible?

 

[RenegadeRocks]

Just asking
there's someone that thinks that the external shape of the one and kinect 2 are extremely horrible?

Its an X - "BOX" ! What were u expecting, a box is a box ! Its called a box, it looks like a box !

 

[Rootax]

Just asking
there's someone that thinks that the external shape of the one and kinect 2 are extremely horrible?

The One look huge...