Microsoft Xbox Reveal Event - May 21, 2013

[warb]

You could mount a small screen with a video loop to fool the heart beat detector, but there's no way around the depth sensor.

 

[Nesh]

You could mount a small screen with a video loop to fool the heart beat detector, but there's no way around the depth sensor.

I ll use plaster to copy my face.

Damn it. Those biometric check ups in products make me want to punch a CEO in the face

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Is there any actual proof about what's described in the patent being implemented in Xbox One / Kinect 2.0?

Don't think so, but this is a hypothetical consideration. As a thought exercise, it's worth investigating whether it is realised or not (like Illumiroom - Is it happening? Is it good? Is it plausible? What are the consequences?)

Ha ha ! Some ppl on another forum are finding inventive ways of fooling the kinect Like : print a poster of ur pic and put it on a wall and point Kinect that way ! But of course, kinefct can sense thermal and heartbeats, so no one can hide from the evil eye.

With 3D, you'd need a synthetic person. But in the case of watching movies for free, it should be easier to hide and not be recognised. Hide under a duvet on the couch with thermally-reflective glasses on, maybe.

ALso, I wonder how the achievements for watching TV shows will work. Will Kinect make sure, you are in front of the TV for say , atleast 80% of the program time ,or just leaving the correct channel on will suffice for achievements ?? Also, ppl usually answer nature calls during commercial breaks, I wonder if Kinect will make sure commercial breaks/ads happen ONLY when u r in front of the TV ! ROFL ! Weird MS is weird !

Good point! Achievements for TV and ads. eBay already tries to manipulate people into feeling good about their purchases by giving them a congratulatory message on winning even a Buy-it-now item. "Bought five items from Live ads achievement unlocked" seems a no-brainer in exploiting consumer psychology.

 

[french toast]

Then when you enable the camera, it'll see Cheetos and recommend you buy more junk food, streamlined so you can say, "Kinect, buy advertised product") whenever you see an ad you like and it's delivered by a local merchant. It'll be the perfect existence with the machines telling us what to do when.

Or if you put it in your bedroom, it will scan you getting changed and 2 days later your get some spam through your front door advertising for a pump up penis enlarger lol :raz:

 

[dagamer]

How do you know the price? Clearly more powerful?

My magical 8-ball says $499 for both. Neither company really afford to lose significant chunks of money on their console; Microsoft is planning on selling this to a broader market which is less likely to buy games to recoup costs plus they need to engineer a box that isn't so unreliable they have to write down $1.15 billion in warranty repairs. Sony Corp. as a whole isn't in the financial position to lose $240-300 per box with the hope of making it back 4-5 years from now. The PS3 wiped out all of the profits from the PS2.

The only shining light for Sony and Microsoft is that people are perfectly willing to drop $500+ on an iPad, so it's not just about price, it's about perceived value as well. Current consoles haven't even hit below $199 yet.

 

[RancidLunchmeat]

Then when you enable the camera, it'll see Cheetos and recommend you buy more junk food, streamlined so you can say, "Kinect, buy advertised product") whenever you see an ad you like and it's delivered by a local merchant. It'll be the perfect existence with the machines telling us what to do when.

Except the difference here is that Sony has actually said that they will use algorithims to predict what you want and download them to your box without you asking or your knowledge and MS hasn't said anything of the sort.

And as far as the camera goes, we haven't heard anything to separate the two systems.

In fact, the only console that we know is going to collect our information and send it elsewhere to be reviewed is the PS4 because they very cleary said so at the about 24 minute mark of their presentation.

 

[NavNucST3]

I love you man, and I agree with your overall premise and the rest of your post, but how'd you get the idea that the One is going to circumvent blackout rules? Or did I read the above wrong?



I've said it before, 1v100 was such a huge step forward it was a horror when they cancelled it due to costs. It's exactly where MS wants to go, it was totally inline with their vision, and it was a fairly well polished product to boot. (and I mean that to say it was almost perfect, but it did have some hiccups). It was exactly what many of us always wanted. The ability to not just watch game shows on TV but actually participate. It was truly the melding of Gaming & TV. Stop spending so much money on these other things and fund another 1v100. Get your install base up and more people will be spending their time watching & interacting with that.

With respect to the blackout restrictions, I should have made myself more clear.

I don't have blackout restrictions watching any of my Chicago or as is the case with Wolverines Football, Chicago Market games, LIVE, however, if I try and watch Michigan play through the ESPN app then [insert Pac-Man wahwahwa] even the MLB and NHL apps still carry the ancient restriction and the Comcast app has no live shows at all. So, yes, I could simply turn off the 360 and turn on the Comcast cable box and have my AVR switch inputs. None of that is difficult in the least, however, as much as people complain about the 360 dash or even the XMB BOTH are some exponential orders of magnitude better than the dogshit UI and even worse UX of my Comcast cable box menus. Not only that but I have no access to replays through the Comcast app even though whatever it was that I wanted to see might be playing a good three or four more times throughout the day as was the case with Man U vs Real Madrid in Champions League. With the XB1 it is my assumption that I will have access to all my channels without any additional restrictions.

The other thing that makes this generation and more specifically the XBOX different from any prior gen is that the platform holders get to talk DIRECTLY to the current connected user base through advertising and marketing. I get that so many people hate it (360 dash), but each time I turn on my 360 I get a nice big XBOX One ad/product placement staring at me begging me to click it and that is something that I don't think should be underestimated, at least in the States.

"US Only": as much as everyone believes that MS only care about the US you have to understand that licenses and their holders can be insane. Theres a reason that something as "simple" as The Addams Family pinball table has never appeared in a game, licensing. Rarely is the music that was in a first-run show the same music that is in the syndicated version of that show (now licenses are starting to include streaming, syndication, other forms of media so hopefully much of this goes away). Those things all happen in a homogenized US. Now imagine dealing with the numerous EU/EMEA rules and restrictions. The US, frankly, is just easy. Even Canada is trickier when needing to deal with the French language mandates. Having said that I expect he EU to be a major battleground this gen and MS not having parity on launch is ridiculous and inexcusable in mine eyes.

I think SONY has its work cutout for it at E3 but really more specifically in figuring out how to increase/regain marketshare in the US, if you believe "core gamers", that people will be abandoning the XBOX brand there is still a 13M+ sell-through disparity between the 360 and PS3 in the US. It will be a new gen, yes, but I actually don't believe everyone starts at zero as many would claim because we've never before been this connected and as I said above I definitely think the 360 dashboard gives MS an advantage.

 

[Cranky]

My magical 8-ball says $499 for both. Neither company really afford to lose significant chunks of money on their console; Microsoft is planning on selling this to a broader market which is less likely to buy games to recoup costs plus they need to engineer a box that isn't so unreliable they have to write down $1.15 billion in warranty repairs. Sony Corp. as a whole isn't in the financial position to lose $240-300 per box with the hope of making it back 4-5 years from now. The PS3 wiped out all of the profits from the PS2.

The only shining light for Sony and Microsoft is that people are perfectly willing to drop $500+ on an iPad, so it's not just about price, it's about perceived value as well. Current consoles haven't even hit below $199 yet.

The pricing question is very interesting. XBone is very, very similar to the Yukon strategy document. I went back and reread that PPT the day after the presentation. About the only thing missing is BC, and I expect something to be offered through the upcoming 360 mini.

A very key pillar in that document was a $299 retail price. How much will all of this furor fade away if they offer it for $399 /$199 on contract. Of course, the internet might explode if they come out with $299 / $99. FWIW, I think PS4 is going to be at least $449 for the cheapest SKU due to Sony's current massive financial crisis.

 

[NavNucST3]

I'm not a fan of many of his remarks as he typically has always rubbed me the wrong way but I most certainly enjoyed Braid!

As far as the cloud goes, while I might have a problem trying to think of ways of how I would use it in my games in 2013...I also never envisioned, in 2005, that in a couple years I would be standing in line for hours waiting to buy a cellphone. While these are certainly different products just because some creative professionals haven't figured out how/what they would use it (for) doesn't mean that someone else won't come along and help spur new thoughts. The key to me is that this seems to have been part of product design as such it may take launch.5 games to even make use of a single compute but I'd expect a LOT of panels or talk (positive and/or negative) at GDC.

 

[BRiT]

Once more with feeling...

Can we please try to keep the comparisons of the business models and the technical details out of this is thread? Those discussions exist elsewhere.

This is not directed at NavNucST3, but to those who are bringing up comparison topics.

 

[Cyan]

I doubt he actually admitted that, do you have a link?

And it would seem people (or at least core gamers) do care, otherwise there wouldn't be so many fanboys holding out for increased clocks, dual APUs etc nor would DF have done such roaring trade with their Face Off articles this gen if people didn't care.

In fact, the perception that your console is weaker than your competitors is probably more important than the actual difference in power. So despite PS4 having say a 30% real world perf advantage, the disparity will be viewed by the core as bigger and more important than it actually is. (I mean you just have to think back to the vociferous reactions to all the PS3 ports made by 'lazy devs' , BLOPS, GTA4, RDR, Skyrim etc which was completely disproportionate to the actual differences between the two platforms, to see my point)

What he actually said, in a number of interviews, was "I have no doubt the Xbox one will have the best looking games of this next generation".

That appears to be the opposite of what it is claimed he said.

Sorry, I don't. I tried and tried, and even checked ALL the history of my web browser -a tedious task if you ask me- to no avail.

But I am 100% sure I read the news somewhere.

He admitted that in an interview after the Xbox Reveal. It's all I remember from the news. I will keep searching where I usually get the news I post here, maybe I will find something there.

 

[Laa-Yosh]

Voice is clearly the next "touch".

Computer: tea, Earl Grey, hot.

First one to get Stewart for the commercial wins.

 

[DJ12]

No one from Microsoft would say one is weaker as that is just stupid, extremely stupid.

 

[dagamer]

Computer: tea, Earl Grey, hot.

First one to get Stewart for the commercial wins.

I met him just yesterday and had a picture taken with him.

 

[Cyan]

Uh, no. This is the used game DRM that they are talking about. Take all these issues and make them one.

You can play offline whenever you want. There is no 24 hour re-activation, the quotes I provided before demonstrate MS's position on this.

If you want to play on-line, you need to be playing on the system that initially had the disc registered. There will be a 24 hour re-authorization to make sure this is happening.

This is the downside to the upside of not having to have the physical disc in the system.

If you have the system that initially authorized the disc, it doesn't matter and won't effect you.

If you DON'T have the system that initially authorized the disc, you have up to 24 hours to play the game before it will kick you out, provided you haven't paid the fee (that I also provided quotes for above).

Again, where's the problem?

Unless you thought full game installs was going to allow you to buy one copy of a game, install it and then give/sell to your friends so they could do the same?

From reading the article you linked to, does it mean that you don't need discs to play your games (as long as you are online) and that the console will only ask you to place the disc in the tray if you are offline? :smile:

If so that doesn't sound that bad.

The fee thing, though, is a different matter. That's something Gamestop, Game, and similar stores should handle, not the user, imho. I want those stores to succeed tbh.

 

[Laa-Yosh]

Best one still has to be the video where he says "engage" and a young couple gets, well, engaged.

 

[RancidLunchmeat]

From reading the article you linked to, does it mean that you don't need discs to play your games (as long as you are online) and that the console will only ask you to place the disc in the tray if you are offline? :smile:

If so that doesn't sound that bad.

The fee thing, though, is a different matter. That's something Gamestop, Game, and similar stores should handle, not the user, imho. I want those stores to succeed tbh.

Huh? You, like most of the other internet, are asking for answers to questions that don't exist.

The article was very straight forward. You buy a game, you put the disc in, it marries to your console and installs on the HDD, and you don't need the disc any more.

It also says that if you are playing single player games you don't need to be on line.

I don't get what is confusing or complicated about any of this.

If you installed a game and are playing in multiplayer online then the system will use its 24 hour authentication process in order to make sure no more than one copy of a single game is being used at the same time.

Do you want to pirate games? Because it seems like it will still be possible, the only issue is that everybody using a copy of that game will have to play off line and single player, otherwise there's only a 24 window before that game license gets shut down.

I really do not understand the confusion here, MS hasn't been wishy washy on this. They've said it repeatedly and very clearly.

BTW - Cyan, I do get your sarcasm and humor, just repeating the facts for the clinically retarded.

 

[expletive]

They clearly said the same thing , that eSram won't get used in multiplats and we all know how much realtime data we can get calculated on the cloud and get it back in time.

I don't understand what you mean about the ESRAM getting "used" in multi plats? Will the embedded RAM in Haswell need to be "used"? Isn't it just part of the basic operation?

 

[Cyan]

Huh? You, like most of the other internet, are asking for answers to questions that don't exist.

The article was very straight forward. You buy a game, you put the disc in, it marries to your console and installs on the HDD, and you don't need the disc any more.

It also says that if you are playing single player games you don't need to be on line.

I don't get what is confusing or complicated about any of this.

If you installed a game and are playing in multiplayer online then the system will use its 24 hour authentication process in order to make sure no more than one copy of a single game is being used at the same time.

Do you want to pirate games? Because it seems like it will still be possible, the only issue is that everybody using a copy of that game will have to play off line and single player, otherwise there's only a 24 window before that game license gets shut down.

I really do not understand the confusion here, MS hasn't been wishy washy on this. They've said it repeatedly and very clearly.

BTW - Cyan, I do get your sarcasm and humor, just repeating the facts for the clinically retarded.

Whether the answers are good or bad I think it is very important that the public have a firm understanding on what to expect out of the console.

And the article we are talking about is quite *ancient* in internet terms, there has been so much speculation since them, as if nothing is 100% clear yet.

Uncertainty in life, economics, business, etc, isn't good at all.

Regarding piracy...well, I deserve a medal from videogame companies, I purchased a lot of games, like many others here.

Back on subject, the thing is that the old system worked. Why anyone would change that is beyond me.

Piracy, hacking and workarounds will always exist, imho.

I hope they confirm everything about the console soon. 'Cos people are confused.

 

[bkilian]

Back on subject, the thing is that the old system worked. Why anyone would change that is beyond me.

Aah, a traditionalist. Well, the Atari worked, why would anyone change it? the PS1 worked, why would anyone change it? the PS2 worked... you see where I'm going with this?
The current system of game sales "works", sure, but it is certainly not ideal for the game companies. Just like the video rental companies eventually made deals with the studios to cut them in on the profits, the used game market is going to have to cut the developers in on the profits in the resale market. They could have done it voluntarily and avoided technological measures, but they didn't, so now they won't have a choice.

As a customer, you probably won't notice anything different, you'll be able to trade your games and buy used games.

If they do what I hope they do, and put the onus on the person giving the disc instead of the person receiving the disc, it'll be even easier. You give the disc to a friend and while they have it, you cannot play your copy (unless you pay), get your disc back, and it'll reauthorize on your machine and disable their copy. This solves the problem of buying a disc on ebay and still having to pay, since you won't, it'll just work for anyone holding the disc. (They probably won't do this, because, again, it leaves the used market unchanged, and they really want a cut of the used market)

Also, everyone talks about just leaving your console offline and not updating your license, but that's pretty hard, and would only be a very small percentage of people. You just make it so that if it's been a certain amount of time (a few days, or 24 hours, or whatever) without any net connection whatsoever, you put the game back into "not-authorised" or demo mode unless the user inserts the game disc again. You can skip this check if the user has paid for the license online, since the only way they can transfer that is online, and it would immediately deauthorize their copy. (So for the digital download folks without discs, they can always play offline)

This solves all the legitimate use cases with almost zero impact on the user, except that they can now play without the disc in the drive if they have an (even crappy) net connection.