Microsoft Xbox Reveal Event - May 21, 2013

[AzBat]

Because they didn't cater to your every whim and desire. Again, this wasn't E3 where you would get the red carpet treatment as a "hardcore" gamer. I do find it disturbing when that group of people basically say "screw the casuals" but seem to forget that they are the majority of the market.

I think that's best explanation. The core gamers are not understanding that the majority of Microsoft's market share were buying the console for TV, apps & Kinect purposes in the last 3-4 years of this generation. Their customer use numbers show an overwhelming validation of TV & app services ever since Netflix was released. So much that video & app use I think was said to have eclipsed multiplayer gaming last year. That's what Microsoft is chasing with the Xbox One. They're going after that market. The one that bought their machines for more than just gaming. The question then becomes does the reveal event show that they are going after that market to the _EXCLUSION_ of the gaming market? HELL NO! But it's finally an admonition to the core gamer market that they are no longer the primary reason for the box. Basically the core gamer is having a hissy fit & acting like 3 year olds. Granted Microsoft could have done a MUCH better job with the reveal. They tried to tell everybody it wasn't going to be focusing solely on games, but they weren't loud enough. E3 is where they should be doing their games. Hopefully they can back to the drawing board & make their E3 totally core gamer focused, because if they don't I think Sony will.

Tommy McClain

 

[blakjedi]

They did something with Win8 embedded that really killed MC features. For one, I heard they stopped development on it years ago.

Ceton was going to come out with a 6-tuner DVR last year but they scrapped it because they found out they couldn't use Windows 8 Embedded. Not sure why they couldn't use Win 7 in that case.

I'm hoping for cheap MC Extender boxes. The market is basically dead and all you have are Xbox 360s. So if they reduce the price of the Xbox 360 Arcade to say $150 or less, that would appeal to a lot of HTPC enthusiasts. I don't see many warming up to paying $400 or more and then paying some kind of subscriptions to change channels through speech recognition.

MS just separated out the MC capability. I think it can still be an extender. I was able to add back in the functionality to my Win8 machine for free. Others can buy it due to the cost of the codecs.

 

[Jwm]

Of course it wasn't live TV as theres no way to have demoed all those features with real-time fantasy sports scoring and whatnot at 10am PST.

To your point though, if they are using an IR blaster to control the STBs channel changing will not work that way, it will not be instant. It will take time for the One to send each number and send ENTER. If they are using the remote control protocol over HDMI it might be that quick as I've never see it.

The one thing that was sneaky, and I am not sure how much stock to put in it, was that he started the demo with "Here's the aspiration." Aspiration? Is it going to do this or not?!?!

One reason I went away from IR blasters is that my setup would record the wrong channels. If I failed to stay up to make sure it would change to record F1, I would wake up with AMC recorded instead. 98% of the channels worked fine, but it seemed like some failed 50% of the time.

I can see some consumer frustration with this, the boxes that gave me errors (a newer samsung, and SciAtlanta HD-8300).

Anyway while I am excited that these features are still included and hopefully improved over the 360 MCE setup. I will wait until E3 for the games. The Remedy game really does look nice, but again we only got a few seconds. I will not spend a ton of money unless the games are significant.

 

[Gradthrawn]

The original Xbox was not an extender however the application side of the One is a Win8 kernel, so there is media center code of some sort for that platform. However, Win8 does not have extender functionality, only the full blown MC interface so not sure how different it is or how much development would be required to rework it into an extender. Would be nice if they could just natively support networked Cablecard tuners like the Ceton and the HD Homerun Prime.

All that said, it will be interesting to see if the One can command certain cable boxes to record shows, schedule season passes, etc. GTV has a special agreement with dish at one point where they had that level of connectivity with their boxes.

I'm quite sure the original Xbox was, in fact, and extender. I believe it had limitations with new WMC servers (might only support XP's WMC, or something along those lines), but it was an extender all the same. Also, just to clarify, a WMC server and a MCE are not the same (there seems to be some confusion in that regard). No Windows OS is an MCE (sounds crazy, I know, but its true). Extenders have always been standalone devices, and WMC servers have always been full Windows OSes so far as I can recall. So, no, Windows 8 does not support MCE functionality, no standalone Windows OS does that I'm aware of (and Windows Media Player is not an extender). It does support being a WMC, however. Unfortunately, that's not included by default and has to purchased with either the Pro Pack, or the Windows Media Center Pack.

 

[AzBat]

Holy crap there's 3 of us here! By the way, here's one of the last 3rd party MCE's I can find in case any of you guys were interested. At that price though, I'd just as well get 360S instead. But, that Echo has a much smaller footprint and power draw.

I think yall are crazy. I don't know very many that have family PC anymore to dedicated to Media Center for extending to other devices.

The original Xbox was not an extender

Yes, it was. I had one, bought my family PC because of it. You had to purchase a disk & special remote to use it though. It never went anywhere because it sucked badly.

I've always seen the Xbox as the Media Center & not the family PC. I tried using it & never liked it. I like how the 360 works right now:a DLNA client & video/IPTV app services. Keep it coming please.

Tommy McClain

 

[Jwm]

I think that's best explanation. The core gamers are not understanding that the majority of Microsoft's market share were buying the console for TV, apps & Kinect purposes in the last 3-4 years of this generation. Their customer use numbers show an overwhelming validation of TV & app services ever since Netflix was released. So much that video & app use I think was said to have eclipsed multiplayer gaming last year. That's what Microsoft is chasing with the Xbox One. They're going after that market. The one that bought their machines for more than just gaming. The question then becomes does the reveal event show that they are going after that market to the _EXCLUSION_ of the gaming market? HELL NO! But it's finally an admonition to the core gamer market that they are no longer the primary reason for the box. Basically the core gamer is having a hissy fit & acting like 3 year olds. Granted Microsoft could have done a MUCH better job with the reveal. They tried to tell everybody it wasn't going to be focusing solely on games, but they weren't loud enough. E3 is where they should be doing their games. Hopefully they can back to the drawing board & make their E3 totally core gamer focused, because if they don't I think Sony will.

Tommy McClain

Well they did do this, I knew going in that maybe only a game or two would be shown. Probably ending up being partners that you want to thank by giving them air time, so it was a surprise actually to see FM5 and Remedy (well Remedy is still 3rd party).

However, I think had I not followed B3D or GAF I would have gone into the reveal wanting to see the games. So I did temper my expectations based on this info, it was good to see that they told us how many exclusives they have along with new ips.

I did want to see more tech talk from the panel, but even there we got some interesting insight into things. Bring on E3, bring on the price.

Edit: I have been using the PC to record or at least play TV content since ATi had there setup years before Media Center. It is cool when neighbors come over and want to watch something, I give them the 360 controller. Last two cable installers were in awe of the setup and how easy it really was. Sadly MS did a poor job in my opinion of advertising these features since XP, it could have been much larger for them.

 

[wco81]

The problem with the "this is for casuals" argument is if you have to subscribe to some level of XBL in order to use these non-gaming features.

How many casuals are going to spend $400 or more for a box and then some kind of XBL subscription to watch Netflix and speak channel change commands?

 

[James Car]

Why do I feel like MS pulled a Nintendo Wii U?
Lets see...Nintendo lost itself by making a console that is basically a PS360Wii with a tablet.

It doesnt give much reason for the PS360 owner to get it because there isnt much of a difference in terms of performance and games. These people wait for the next PS and XBOX instead

It doesnt give much reason for the casual to get it because the tablet is complicated whereas the Wiimote was not and games are either hardcore or not so different from Wii. The casual doesnt care to get better technology. The casual likes playing easy and fan games. He already has Wii and tablets

Nintendo is lost between harcore-casual. What is it trying to do? Offer a tablet-controller-motion control gaming experience? What am I an octopus? It doesnt do any of these any better

Now what MS did?

Another double personality device

A box that doesnt know who its target market is. The TV coach potato or the gamer?

A TV BOX is something the TV coach potato will want....well....can MS convince the TV coach potato to buy XBOXOne?
He wouldnt even care to look because he already has his solutions and the name XBOX alludes to a gaming device. It doesnt replace any of the existing TV devices in the living room. It needs them to communicate so that it changes the way you control your TV experience. By talking to it......FASCINATING. Yeah lets pay $$$ extra so I can talk to my TV. Why would he want to pay premium for that or for games?

The GAME BOX is something the gaming guy will want. Lets see...there is competition.....and the XBOXOne. What is the primary new feature on XBOXOne? TV viewing...because watching TV improves my gaming experience and I just dont have a clue yet how.
What else does it offer? A more powerful kinect....which I already tried and the excitement wore off? The gaming guy isnt interested much to pay premium for a TV feature. Its the games he is after.
And I am not even sure the casual gamer will pay premium for this device either.

And this will make it even worse for EU and other territories where the touted TV integrations cannot be experienced by almost none.

Good points all around.

I see now why Bkillian has found greener pastures ...

BTW, the kinect audio demo was quite impressive, so we can't pin the backlash on his department! lol

Hard to believe a company with as much resource availability (in money and brain-power) could screw up a product line so convincingly.

Some of the negatives are not hardware related and are in fact possible to ease back and win the interwebs over, but the fact that MS could at any time inch back into some of the more questionable privacy and DRM related nightmares is what I think will lead to many customers searching for greener pastures, just as some employees have...

 

[Gradthrawn]

I think yall are crazy. I don't know very many that have family PC anymore to dedicated to Media Center for extending to other devices.

Actually I just use a small dedicated server. It's a small tower server (ML115) running Win 7 with mirrored drives that also servers up my BD ISOs and music. Tried a virtualized deployment recently as well on a larger more robust tower server, and the results where relatively hopeful. Have to have a host with DirectPath I/O support, however, for passthrough. I've consolidated and virtualized the rest of my home servers. WMC is the last hold out.

 

[NavNucST3]

The problem with the "this is for casuals" argument is if you have to subscribe to some level of XBL in order to use these non-gaming features.

How many casuals are going to spend $400 or more for a box and then some kind of XBL subscription to watch Netflix and speak channel change commands?

Am I casual or core?

I spend more time in XBOX Live Video Marketplace and Netflix/Amazon than hours spent gaming.
and with that said

I probably spend more on games in a year than some have spent this entire generation.

 

[Malo]

I'm quite sure the original Xbox was, in fact, and extender. I believe it had limitations with new WMC servers (might only support XP's WMC, or something along those lines), but it was an extender all the same. Also, just to clarify, a WMC server and a MCE are not the same (there seems to be some confusion in that regard). No Windows OS is an MCE (sounds crazy, I know, but its true). Extenders have always been standalone devices, and WMC servers have always been full Windows OSes so far as I can recall. So, no, Windows 8 does not support MCE functionality, no standalone Windows OS does that I'm aware of (and Windows Media Player is not an extender). It does support being a WMC, however. Unfortunately, that's not included by default and has to purchased with either the Pro Pack, or the Windows Media Center Pack.

Yes that is all correct. The only MCE's available at this present time are the Xbox 360 and the Ceton Echo AFAIK. I have a Ceton PCIe in the main HTPC (primary living room viewing and recording to my WHS), and a HDHR Prime feeding all other HTPC's/PC's around the house for general viewing of cable, so I don't actually use any MCE as they are all WMC on windows.

The Media Center Pack for Windows 8 is $9.95 US as well, I just added it to my Helix last week. So not exactly a big cost that would prevent anyone from adding it at all when desired.

It would be vastly amusing if the Xbox One did not act as wither a WMC or MCE in this regard and could only pass HDMI CEC to an existing device or whatever it does.

 

[AzBat]

The problem with the "this is for casuals" argument is if you have to subscribe to some level of XBL in order to use these non-gaming features.

How many casuals are going to spend $400 or more for a box and then some kind of XBL subscription to watch Netflix and speak channel change commands?

I think if you go back & look at the number of folks buying Xbox 360 since Kinect shipped you'll see that a lot of casuals in the US are spending the money for that experience. But you need to realize that they're not just buying it for Netflix & other TV/movie content, they're buying for the checklist features too, which for them includes gaming. Gamers are thinking this is a black or white issue & it's not. Their research shows their customer usage & it tells them that the majority are doing more than just watching TV & movies, they' are also playing games, searching the Internet or using social services. The Xbox One is designed specifically for that usage.

Tommy McClain

 

[Tap In]

I think that's best explanation. The core gamers are not understanding that the majority of Microsoft's market share were buying the console for TV, apps & Kinect purposes in the last 3-4 years of this generation. Their customer use numbers show an overwhelming validation of TV & app services ever since Netflix was released. So much that video & app use I think was said to have eclipsed multiplayer gaming last year. That's what Microsoft is chasing with the Xbox One. They're going after that market. The one that bought their machines for more than just gaming. The question then becomes does the reveal event show that they are going after that market to the _EXCLUSION_ of the gaming market? HELL NO! But it's finally an admonition to the core gamer market that they are no longer the primary reason for the box. Basically the core gamer is having a hissy fit & acting like 3 year olds. Granted Microsoft could have done a MUCH better job with the reveal. They tried to tell everybody it wasn't going to be focusing solely on games, but they weren't loud enough. E3 is where they should be doing their games. Hopefully they can back to the drawing board & make their E3 totally core gamer focused, because if they don't I think Sony will.

Tommy McClain

wish we had a "Like" button here... well said

oh and I switch between TV, games and the web every day all day so to me they were targeting my usage except for the app integration and interactive stuff... I will need to see it in action to see if it is worth what they gave up for it in the reveal.

some of those things would have been better off as an afterthought to more games but I feel like they were trying to reveal an Apple TV competitor more than a PS4 competitor

 

[DJ12]

They've screwed it up for you but you aren't the type of person they've made a play for.

They don't care you pissed off at the minute. If it's a big failure yhey may send you a letter or give you a free year of gold to try and get you back along with the promise of a 0.00001% share of the cloud computing resource

 

[James Car]

This conference was aimed squarely at me ...

It's awesome that you have a product to be excited about. Now the question is, how many more are there like you that were not previous xbox owners? How many more are there like you that were ps3 owners last gen?

In all, I see this as a conference which revealed a shifting target away from core gamers and with casual gamers having everywhere to turn for much cheaper entertainment, I see this as a contracting business for MS if this conference is anything to go by.

 

[ERP]

I think if you go back & look at the number of folks buying Xbox 360 since Kinect shipped you'll see that a lot of casuals in the US are spending the money for that experience. But you need to realize that they're not just buying it for Netflix & other TV/movie content, they're buying for the checklist features too, which for them includes gaming. Gamers are thinking this is a black or white issue & it's not. Their research shows their customer usage & it tells them that the majority are doing more than just watching TV & movies, they' are also playing games, searching the Internet or using social services. The Xbox One is designed specifically for that usage.

Tommy McClain

Actually I agree with this, I've seen the numbers from PS3 and the media app usage far exceed any game, I'd imagine the Xbox is much the same way.
Putting them behing Gold probably isn't much of an issue for most people.
I'll be looking at the mainstream press today to see how they react to the reveal.
The problem is that I don't think you can afford to alienate the core gamer in per-suing the broader market.
MS still has E3 to play to that market though.

 

[wco81]

I think if you go back & look at the number of folks buying Xbox 360 since Kinect shipped you'll see that a lot of casuals in the US are spending the money for that experience. But you need to realize that they're not just buying it for Netflix & other TV/movie content, they're buying for the checklist features too, which for them includes gaming. Gamers are thinking this is a black or white issue & it's not. Their research shows their customer usage & it tells them that the majority are doing more than just watching TV & movies, they' are also playing games, searching the Internet or using social services. The Xbox One is designed specifically for that usage.

Tommy McClain

They're not going after one or the other, seems both, as well as movies and all other kind of media.

More power to them if they pull it off.

Yeah I'm scratching my head about people paying for XBL Gold in order to view Netflix, when there are so many other options. I would hope that the people who watch Netflix through XBL Gold use the gaming features, or at least planned to. Otherwise, it's a waste of money when there are so many other ways to get Netflix on the big screen without paying to access it.

Maybe they hit the jackpot again with Kinect 2. Stranger things have happened.

 

[James Car]

I think that's best explanation. The core gamers are not understanding that the majority of Microsoft's market share were buying the console for TV, apps & Kinect purposes in the last 3-4 years of this generation.

Just because it is convenient to use the box which is already connected for those features does not mean that the original purchase was for those functions.

As for a decline in game purchases indicating a new breed of xb owner that only likes to watch movies on xbox, I think that use trend has more to do with the fact that the gaming experience has grown stale. The hardware was in desperate need of an update (8 years!) to enable new experiences and excite the userbase. The hardware they showed at this event does little to inspire this crowd. and the ones that have an xbox that is sitting under the telly for watching netflix I doubt will be excited at the prospect of ponying up $500 for the privilege to do the same thing but with mandated DRM checkups and potential marketing research on a daily basis.

 

[Nesh]

Because they didn't cater to your every whim and desire. Again, this wasn't E3 where you would get the red carpet treatment as a "hardcore" gamer. I do find it disturbing when that group of people basically say "screw the casuals" but seem to forget that they are the majority of the market.

You werent paying attention to what I wrote. You probably just read the top sentence only.

As anyone would have told you as soon as the event was announced, games will come at E3. In fact, Microsoft promised 15 of them by holiday 2014, 8 of which are new IP, but that gets drowned out in the fanboyism. Get excited about that. Get excited about how the system isn't so dreadfully slow anymore switching between tasks. And honestly, all it takes is the same integration of FIFA as shown with the NFL and Europe will perk up (not that far-fetched really). Similarly with baseball in Japan (though I think that's a lost cause already with only 1.7 million out of 77 million 360s sold there).

Excuse me but I have no idea what fanboyism has to do with anything. Of course I like the announcement of 15 games.
The problem with the whole conference was too much talk about TV for the TVphiles and almost nothing to keep the gamer (casual or hardcore) exited except "oh we ve got games"?...no shit sherlock. You are gonna have games....and I thought that thing was going to make Frappe and cook bacon. How about things that matter fot the gaming experience? But nnnoooooooo......lets talk about how you control internet and TV channels that many of us in EU wont care or have access to. What about the hardware? Noooooo lets throw generic numbers.....what about things this hardware can do to improve my gaming experience? Nnnoooooooo! Lets talk more about TV and CLOUD. Now tell me why I shouldnt be annoyed by it

 

[AlphaWolf]

It's still going to play games, and it looks like there will be more exclusives than last gen. Gamers might be whining because the reveal wasn't aimed at them (and they think they're special), but once the games are there, they will be as well. (well many of the ones lacking obvious bias anyway)