Killzone 2 pre-release discussion thread

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ultragpu said:
oh man oh man, after seeing the intro sequence, it is without a doubt the most cinematic and CGI looking game i ever gazed upon.
34rufc4.jpg
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This particular scene reminds me of Miyazaki's manga, Nausicaa of the Valley of the Wind. In one of the chapters, escape airships carrying civilians and soldiers were blown to bits. Helpless women and kids frailed frantically in mid-air while fighters rammed into them uncontrollably (One of the story telling aspects was that War is Evil, and it was depicted accurately and cruelly).

The lighting also reminded me of the series (I wonder how much of an influence is Nausicaa). In the Valley of the Wind, the fighter planes would take advantage of the glaring sun as backdrop while attacking larger and heavily armed vessels, just like the way glare works in the KZ trailers. I never thought I would see it in games (and I didn't realize the effect would be effective).

The revolver in the trailer also reminds me somewhat of Nausicaa's artstyle. It's classical and yet sci-fi based and showed influence of old religions. I really hope to see women/woman (and children) in the game. The soft lighting just breathe life into the atmosphere.

EDIT: [OT comments. Don't watch "Nausicaa and the Valley of the Wind" anime. They butchered the 7-book manga. The anime has very little similarities to the manga (The bad guys were all taken out from the anime, and they changed some of the good guys to the bad guys). If you're interested, read the manga's wikipedia entry. They have a separate entry for the weaksauce anime]
 
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The graphics are definitely breath taking... but I can't help but notice something that bugs me the same way uncharted does.

Gorgeous environment... but almost completely void of interactivity. Perhaps I'm the weird type that likes to move stuff around or shoot things just to get a reaction... but sometimes it's just neat to see things interact naturally according to the physics laws present in the engine.

I remember uncharted basically put these random clay bottles in certain places for you to just shoot and break a piece at a time... as if to make up for the lack of environmental interaction.

I hope the whole game isn't like this... it's like taking a step forward in visual immersion but taking a step back in physical immersion.
 
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Right now they have reactive lights, impact effects (e.g., varying blasts/holes when bullets hit the ground/wall), partially destructible covers (See pillars and window shades in old trailers), scripted collapsable environments (building and bridge), longer particle effects and turbulence, "smarter" enemies (e.g., trying to grab lost helmet, reaction to burning fire, leave footprints as they walk, corpses that moved to bullet hits), switches and doors. Weather weapons will come in the final game too.

The only major missing interactivity are the parked vehicles. They should flip or explode after some abuse.

RFOM has glass effect and "interactive" furnitures (e.g., billiard balls on pool table, fridge, chairs, tables, etc.). Except for the loud noise they created when I knocked into the metal chairs, I'd say those are pretty minor -- if the AI can't respond/react to them. Even for an open game like GTA4, I can't sit on the park benches or wherever I like. So I think the devs should just focus on selected effects that make sense to their story.


EDIT: Oh and booby traps :) Uncharted has that too.
 
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Ya patsu, I totally agree that tech should be used in respect to your game setting... but I couldn't help but think how much more interesting that warehouse shootout would've been if those shelves and box covers actually had interactive objects during the shootout. I'm not talking like Stranglehold style either... just something that moves. That whole room felt very last gen and very wow at the same time... super confusing.

Stuff like semi-destructable cover for interactivity is even done in GTA4 (although I'm not sure it affects gameplay... can never tell if I was actually landing shots or not in that game)
 
You are right. That particular scene is not as inspiring as the outdoor one. Would be great if they add collapsable scaffolds and racks. They don't have to go Kojima-style and make meltable ice. Something that affects gameplay and "AI-savvy" would be cool. The enemies should be smart enough to bring down structures to crush me when I am oblivious to the environment.

EDIT: I noticed that the gun-sight UI, even for the revolver, is context-sensitive. It changes size and highlighted elements using double circles, arrows and legends. I wonder what they are for.

EDIT 2: There is another approach to make the warehouse level interesting. The reason we feel that the warehouse needs interactivity is because we have too much idle time in the game. e.g., I only felt that Uncharted needed more interactivity in-between the battles (e.g., during puzzle solving or exploring).

If GG improves the AI so that Helghans will move cunningly to flank you in many ways in the warehouse, our attention will be drawn to the constantly moving soldiers and their (diversion) tactics. The maze-like level and destructible lights (due to deferred rendering) may be a fertile ground for such gameplay or even CQC. If done successfully, the developers would be able to skirt the "object interactivity" issue and spice up the gameplay at the same time. This is not an adventure/exploration game, so we don't hang around the warehouse to dig for gold. We will simply move on to the next check point when the soldiers passed away.
 
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dabomb665m said:
The graphics are definitely breath taking... but I can't help but notice something that bugs me the same way uncharted does.

Gorgeous environment... but almost completely void of interactivity. Perhaps I'm the weird type that likes to move stuff around or shoot things just to get a reaction... but sometimes it's just neat to see things interact naturally according to the physics laws present in the engine.

I remember uncharted basically put these random clay bottles in certain places for you to just shoot and break a piece at a time... as if to make up for the lack of environmental interaction.

I hope the whole game isn't like this... it's like taking a step forward in visual immersion but taking a step back in physical immersion.
Click to expand...

You could move almost all foliage in Uncharted.

In Killzone 2 there appears to be destructable environemnts (the bridge, a cater formed dynamically from an explosion on the ground), destructable cover, and other interactive objects. Also inside that inside environment - the book could be shot, the mug could be shot....and finally the table would break dynamically to bullets.
 
I just rewatched GamerSyde's KZ2 video. At 4:05, you will find the player shooting at chairs, table and a cup in the warehouse level. They all behaved as expected when fired upon. So the environment is indeed interactive. They just didn't do up the ground floor main area.

In any case, although they add to the realism, these minor interactivity do not contribute to gameplay. I'd prefer them beefing up the AI in the warehouse level so that they behave like Uncharted mercs (or better !).
 
patsu said:
I just rewatched GamerSyde's KZ2 video. At 4:05, you will find the player shooting at chairs, table and a cup in the warehouse level. They all behaved as expected when fired upon. So the environment is indeed interactive. They just didn't do up the ground floor main area.

In any case, although they add to the realism, these minor interactivity do not contribute to gameplay. I'd prefer them beefing up the AI in the warehouse level so that they behave like Uncharted mercs (or better !).
Click to expand...

I like interacting with things. If I see a room full of bottles I shoot them all :D MGS2 was the best :D

And i can't interact on neogaf, but I believe they have different reticules for different weapons. (I also remember an argument on Killzone forums saying how crap the reticule was in 2007 gameplay, and that it hsould be changed) but I'm almost 100% that there are diff reticules.

Edit: Take it back, they all appear to be sqaure on the video (rather than original triangle.)
 
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the full intro was from the jeuxfrance vid and it;s damn slow. but well worth it. i only dream of that intro in 720p direct feed!
 
Well, wanna shoot watermelons ? I just played Stranglehold Demo, and man that is the largest number of exploding watermelons in a game!:D
You don't even have to shot them, slide over them and BooM ! Watermelon spray !:D


I think if ur gameplay structure is tight enough, you don't need env interactions, unless they are part of the gameplay. If there is enough urgency to complete a mission, you don't care if the bottle next to you breaks or not.:-|
 
predicate said:
Ahhh, is that the same thing that causes it in AC6 too? Is that to preserve fillrate?
Click to expand...

Might be. I haven't played AC6, so I wouldn't know. :oops: Lost Planet on 360 exhibits the same technique.

And yes, primarily it reduces the fillrate requirements.
 
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