Influences of Favorite Console Religion on Game Perception (containment thread)

[BRiT]

And Sony fanboy but I only have a PS4 this gen but I don't find pleasure to tell than Quantum Break, Ryse or Sunset Overdrive are not great looking title like Star Citizen for PC...

And I don't say multiplatform are incompetent and Naughty Dog or Guerrilla are the best of the world.

DICE engine or UE4 are piece of art used in different games with very different constraints and the result is great for example...

Then you're not FanBoying. It's not FanBoying unless you're being an obnoxious dick and invading other threads trying to put forward your own agenda. That is my definition of FanBoying as used in a negative connotation.

If you're simply a fan of a company and the technology that is fine as long as you're not annoying everyone else. Perhaps why some think there are still Xbox FanBoys left is because their definition is too broad and includes positive connotations where the user is not an annoyance.

 

[chris1515]

I'll read that pdf Clukos as soon as I get to work..

Read the ppt version and don't forget to click on image into the presentation it is video. I extract all video on my PC.

The presentation is very interesting and show major difference between real time rendering and offline rendering and a great use of temporal reprojection for reach 2ms realtime performance...

 

[Akumajou]

Strongly disagree. Moore's law will allow it at some point -- even with rasterization hardware.

Tesselation in the PC game you refer to is used for special occasions. It takes a while for devs to make engines that implement it in a significant way. That's probably the case in sequels.

Tesselation as a feature has been around since before the xbox 360 console which has a few games that used said features.

PC gaming relies on a lot of "checklist" features tied to the promoted hardware gen.

Moore's law is about chip fabrication processes not about marketing hype.

 

[AlNom]

Banned? I thought they were turned into Mods......

 

[VFX_Veteran]

Environment lighting is one major problem with the game, most of the time open areas just look bland (maybe that was the artistic approach)

Agreed here. It appears very flat in areas.

And as you've probably noticed in that picture geometry tessellation is not used for rocks or walls or objects within the game except for terrain (as seen in the nvidia comparisons), some examples

While it's not used for individual rocks (that's debatable), that image there shows a tremendous amount of detail on the terrain, steps, and walkway arches, as well as her clothes. All impressive detail that UC4 will not have (unless modelled). Going from gameplay vids of UC4, it's not showing this level of detail -- especially on the silhouette edges of the geometry.

Material shading is also inconsistent, sometimes producing very strange results (as in the DF article). RotTR is definitely a great looking game overall but it's very inconsistent to be considered truly great in my opinion. Battlefront, The Order, Ryse and even Batman AK all manage to deliver stunning visuals at a more consistent pace.

I'm not seeing this inconsistency in the game. I believe it's all about the artwork. But I will consent to this artwork not translating very well to pixels.

It's less about specific programming techniques and more about building custom engines for specific platforms and specific games (like Remedy have done for Quantum Break for example).

Agree. But like I said, we haven't seen anything in these custom engines that no one else hasn't done.

 

[VFX_Veteran]

Tesselation in the PC game you refer to is used for special occasions. It takes a while for devs to make engines that implement it in a significant way. That's probably the case in sequels.

Tesselation as a feature has been around since before the xbox 360 console which has a few games that used said features.

PC gaming relies on a lot of "checklist" features tied to the promoted hardware gen.

Moore's law is about chip fabrication processes not about marketing hype.

You are reading too much into my statement. If you can't afford to use a displacement map on assets due to the triangle throughput being too large for good ms, then brute forcely making faster and more memory bandwidth chips would be a solution. Surely we all agree that each iteration of AMD/Nvidia chips offers more so that developers can implement more.

Tessellation isn't marketing hype. It's used to subdivide surfaces to allow for complex details to be seen across silhouette edges. No one in the industry would deny having to be able to tessellate everything would be a good thing. In the above RoTR image showing the steps for example, I love the fact that the side of the stairs look nice and varied across the surface and when my eyes go up to the edges of the stairs I see the same discontinuity. Something just isn't right about seeing that detail and then realizing it's only blocks of elongated cubes with sharp edges.. yuck!

 

[London Geezer]

You just proved it again that you are ignorant.
Ignorant about the relevance of your posts, in the context of this forum and the individual boards you post into.
Once again you came out with "I'm playing it on PC at ultra settings" HELLO! How can you compare a PS4 game to a PC game at ultra settings, at 4K probably?

Can you see how that has no relevance whatsoever here? All you do is go into console threads and spout word after word of completely irrelevant - though perhaps technically accurate - drivel.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[chris1515]

You are reading too much into my statement. If you can't afford to use a displacement map on assets due to the triangle throughput being too large for good ms, then brute forcely making faster and more memory bandwidth chips would be a solution. Surely we all agree that each iteration of AMD/Nvidia chips offers more so that developers can implement more.

Tessellation isn't marketing hype. It's used to subdivide surfaces to allow for complex details to be seen across silhouette edges. No one in the industry would deny having to be able to tessellate everything would be a good thing. In the above RoTR image showing the steps for example, I love the fact that the side of the stairs look nice and varied across the surface and when my eyes go up to the edges of the stairs I see the same discontinuity. Something just isn't right about seeing that detail and then realizing it's only blocks of elongated cubes with sharp edges.. yuck!

No the GPU will run poorly and after it means less effect....

You can have a GPU 100 faster than a Titan X it will be the same things. I hope when we will have this kind of power we will have shift to another rendering method or maybe we will use game cloud service...

In Dreams they use displacement with point rendering .

 

[VFX_Veteran]

You just proved it again that you are ignorant.
Ignorant about the relevance of your posts, in the context of this forum and the individual boards you post into.

LOL! So my posts are irrelevant because I'm comparing PS4 games to PC games? By which several people do by making blanket statements like "This is the best looking game ever made!" (which btw, is all encompassing).

Once again you came out with "I'm playing it on PC at ultra settings" HELLO! How can you compare a PS4 game to a PC game at ultra settings, at 4K probably?

Tech is tech. Whether it's available on the consoles or not is beside the point. If people make blanket statements, they are going to get challenged. Period.

 

[chris1515]

Tesselation is useful on PC... You have to use the additional power in something.

As inefficient as it is to push tesselation on high end PC, the base version is done on a much less powerful hardware...

 

[VFX_Veteran]

No the GPU will run poorly and after it means less effect....

You can have a GPU 100 faster than a Titan X it will be the same things. I hope when we will have this kind of power we will have shift to another rendering method or maybe weven will use game cloud service...

In Dreams they use displacement with point rendering .

Dude that's just simply not true. Each iteration of a GPU has come with more throughput. 5 yrs ago, you wouldn't even be able to afford the tessellation we do have in games.

Btw, tessellation doesn't have to be pixel sized triangles either. Where are you getting that?

 

[chris1515]

Dude that's just simply not true. Each iteration of a GPU has come with more throughput. 5 yrs ago, you wouldn't even be able to afford the tessellation we do have in games.

Btw, tessellation doesn't have to be pixel sized triangles either. Where are you getting that?

You can have dense geometry and efficiency today just do some software rendering like Dreams and it is done.

 

[London Geezer]

LOL! So my posts are irrelevant because I'm comparing PS4 games to PC games? By which several people do by making blanket statements like "This is the best looking game ever made!" (which btw, is all encompassing).



Tech is tech. Whether it's available on the consoles or not is beside the point. If people make blanket statements, they are going to get challenged. Period.

It's called Context. But you're not getting it, so feel free to keep posting PC master race drivel on console forums and I'll leave the rest in the hands of those who run this forum.

Have fun!!

 

[chris1515]

Dude that's just simply not true. Each iteration of a GPU has come with more throughput. 5 yrs ago, you wouldn't even be able to afford the tessellation we do have in games.

Btw, tessellation doesn't have to be pixel sized triangles either. Where are you getting that?

One of the biggest problem today is micropolygon... If you find artist able to have a great looking character without having any sub pixel polygons... It is not a question of power but of rendering algorithm...

The best is to cull as many polygons as possible, use good normal maps or/and POM...

 

[VFX_Veteran]

One of the biggest problem today is micropolygon... If you find artist able to have a great looking character without having any sub pixel polygons...

The best is to cull as many polygons as possible, use good normal laps or/and POM...

You can cull to the best of your ability without sacrificing the look. Using normal maps or POM doesn't solve the silhouette edge problem which is "jarring" to say the least. POM is much better however it's not even used frequently. I don't see it in most games at all. I'm still in favor of normal maps for the microdetail, but the macro could absolutely use tessellation. You'd basically get self-shadowing and shadow casting doing this.

 

[Egmon83]

I always laugh at PC's.

All games are ports, except for Star Citizen: which looks ugly as hell.
I don't care that they have 100.000 muscles and 20.000 bones for each face; if it looks like this:

It's a 'checklist' game: they enable all UE4 or CryEngine 5 effects and they hope it appears high end. PC gamers actually think that the game has high end graphics; just because they have all effects enabled at the same time. You can't buy or brute force your way into good animation you need talented devs for that. Something which exclusive PC development severely lacks, IMO.

That's my hypothesis for why PC boys come to shit on console forums. They wish consoles would go away so the PC would finally receive some game with good graphics, instead of just checklist graphics and 8048*4196 rendering

 

[Billy Idol]

But you're not getting it,...

Yeah, it is really astounding. He just does not get it and cannot understand what people are trying to explain him. Thank god my students are not like this. He is in my personal opinion the most tech ignorant member of this board.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Yeah, it is really astounding. He just does not get it and cannot understand what people are trying to explain him. Thank god my students are not like this. He is in my personal opinion the most tech ignorant member of this board.

 

[VFX_Veteran]

I always laugh at PC's.

All games are ports, except for Star Citizen: which looks ugly as hell.
I don't care that they have 100.000 muscles and 20.000 bones for each face; if it looks like this:

It's a 'checklist' game: they enable all UE4 or CryEngine 5 effects and they hope it appears high end. PC gamers actually think that the game has high end graphics; just because they have all effects enabled at the same time. You can't buy or brute force your way into good animation you need talented devs for that. Something which exclusive PC development severely lacks, IMO.

That's my hypothesis for why PC boys come to shit on console forums. They wish consoles would go away so the PC would finally receive some game with good graphics, instead of just checklist graphics and 8048*4196 rendering

That screen actually looks pretty good.

In any case, I think you are being a little hypocritical here. Every console gamer wants those bells-n-whistles for their platforms too. Look back at all the next-gen concept trailers that were flooding the internet? FF:Agnus, SW1313, UE4 demos, Deep Down, etc..

People were RAVING over all the new graphics features.

NOTE: I absolutely agree that UC4 has the best in-game animation I've seen. It's clear they put a LOT of work into it and it shows. Closest animation I've seen is MGS5 and AC games. They were done really well too.

 

[VFX_Veteran]

Yeah, it is really astounding. He just does not get it and cannot understand what people are trying to explain him. Thank god my students are not like this. He is in my personal opinion the most tech ignorant member of this board.

Wow.