Formula 1 - 2012 Season

[Kaotik]

When Kimi will win a race in Lotus, he will be disappointed

At this stage of season I see WDC to be Fernando's to loose and WCC to be RedBull's to loose. Both unlikely to fail!

Seriously?
We're only half-way through the season, and there's 2 drivers within 44 points from Alonso, 4 drivers within 62 points, considering the points system it won't take long for that lead to dissappear.

edit:
Wasn't it just couple races ago when Alonso had practicly no lead at all?

 

[itsmydamnation]

No, but the car just isn't as fast as Red Bull / McLaren / Lotus in general, not when it's not cold/wet anyway - it's fast enough to keep most if not all behind on hotter temps too, but that's a lot easier than passing people if you don't manage to get top spots in qualifying (which I doubt he'll be able to do in hot temps that often)

And he's bound to have some technical issues some day, too, like everyone else, which is enough to lose most of his current points lead

Hows that any different to when he won the WDC at Renault? my personal opinion is pound for pound alonso is the best driver in the pack. He has consistently year after year, race after race put cars in finishing positions they don't deserve to be in .

if you watch any of the driver trackers you will see the Ferrari has more understeer (pullrod front?) and it very twitchy in terms of handling. Compared to the lotus/mclaren/RB its obvious that alonso has to fight his car way more. Yet in-spite of that look where he is.

 

[AlphaWolf]

It's a bit early to call it, but if he drives the way he has the last 5 races, I don't see anyone catching him; because it really doesn't look like any one driver behind him is close to reeling off a bunch of wins in a row.

 

[Lightman]

Seriously?
We're only half-way through the season, and there's 2 drivers within 44 points from Alonso, 4 drivers within 62 points, considering the points system it won't take long for that lead to dissappear.

edit:
Wasn't it just couple races ago when Alonso had practicly no lead at all?

I would like Kimi to put more of a fight at the front as I'm rooting for Lotus to do well this year, but Alonso is favorite at the moment and if nothing major changes in the next couple of races WDC is his to take.

 

[Kaotik]

Hows that any different to when he won the WDC at Renault? my personal opinion is pound for pound alonso is the best driver in the pack. He has consistently year after year, race after race put cars in finishing positions they don't deserve to be in .

if you watch any of the driver trackers you will see the Ferrari has more understeer (pullrod front?) and it very twitchy in terms of handling. Compared to the lotus/mclaren/RB its obvious that alonso has to fight his car way more. Yet in-spite of that look where he is.

Whatever it is, it stil works leaps and bounds better than the others on cold / wet weather.

At Renault, he drove well, and the car was fine, but 2005 he won the WDC only due McLaren being more unreliable - Räikkönen retired 3 times to different kidns of car failures, every time from lead (once on last lap, too), and each of those times Alonso won the race. Alonso retired once too, and Kimi won the race, but that was Alonsos own error, not car failure.

 

[Bludd]

I remember the Renaults in 2005/2006 also had understeer. It seems Alonso maybe likes that kind of feedback.

Note: I am not really basing my claim that Alonso will win the WDC on anything but my fandom and that he's shown before that he can do it with an inferiour car. It is basically my hope and what I am rooting for.

 

[Gubbi]

IMHO, Alonso is a strong favourite for the championship.

He has been super consistent: Zero retirements this year, and a podium finish in every race Ferrrari hasn't b0rked their tactics in. He did well in the beginning of the season with an inferior car, and after the Silverstone updates the car seems to be on pace.

He'll be very hard to beat.

Cheers

 

[Kaotik]

IMHO, Alonso is a strong favourite for the championship.

He has been super consistent: Zero retirements this year, and a podium finish in every race Ferrrari hasn't b0rked their tactics in. He did well in the beginning of the season with an inferior car, and after the Silverstone updates the car seems to be on pace.

He'll be very hard to beat.

Cheers

Then again, how many top drivers have retired due their own mistakes this year? Exactly - none (at least top5 in championship hasn't)
Tactics is something the driver can't be blamed for, either.
Ferrari is simply better than the other cars in cold/wet, had it been hot all qualis & races, he wouldn't be on top, not sure who would but anyway.

 

[itsmydamnation]

if they where so much faster they would have overtaken him easy with the DRS, track temp was 34c race day. but that never happened. When he needed to he would push the gap out a couple of tenths so it was just over a second and continue on his merry way.


the other thing to remember is alonso has had 1 or 2 bad start this year and 8 brilliant starts so even if he isn't on the first or second row people need to watch out.

 

[Kaotik]

if they where so much faster they would have overtaken him easy with the DRS, track temp was 34c race day. but that never happened. When he needed to he would push the gap out a couple of tenths so it was just over a second and continue on his merry way.

They were faster, but not faster enough, as Alonso himself said, he used all his KERS against the DRS-zone, which was enough given Ferraris good straight speed (IIRC when Vettel was closest to him, the difference was only around 5km/h in the speed, despite the fact that Vettel had DRS open), he knew that if he can keep them behind through DRS zone, he's safe rest of the lap.

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2012/07/22/2012-german-grand-prix-fastest-laps/ uncheck all but top 5, you can see Alonso was a tad slower most of the time (first stint was good, but after that not so much), excluding right in the end that ghost lap

 

[Pete]

Isn't it odd that Vettel's illegal pass nets him the same penalty as Maldonado's taking out Hamilton? Horner mentioned that's the minimum penalty available. Seems like they should add an additional, smaller penalty to their bag of tricks.

 

[Kaotik]

Isn't it odd that Vettel's illegal pass nets him the same penalty as Maldonado's taking out Hamilton? Horner mentioned that's the minimum penalty available. Seems like they should add an additional, smaller penalty to their bag of tricks.

Not really, there's nothing you can apply during race that's "smaller than drivethrough", and drivethrough on last 5 laps is automaticly just 20 secs to your time (as it's approximate average time you lose from it)

In Maldonado's case, you do have to realize that it wasn't intentional by any means, he had lost control of the car when it happened due Hamilton forcing him out of track - in fact, had the clarification of overtaking rules come out before that, it would be Hamilton getting the penalty without any doubts (and it's possible that he would have been penalized anyway, if his race hasn't stopped there and it was seen as penalty enough)

 

[Rurouni]

Not really, there's nothing you can apply during race that's "smaller than drivethrough", and drivethrough on last 5 laps is automaticly just 20 secs to your time (as it's approximate average time you lose from it)

In Maldonado's case, you do have to realize that it wasn't intentional by any means, he had lost control of the car when it happened due Hamilton forcing him out of track - in fact, had the clarification of overtaking rules come out before that, it would be Hamilton getting the penalty without any doubts (and it's possible that he would have been penalized anyway, if his race hasn't stopped there and it was seen as penalty enough)

Maldonado lost control because he choose it by himself. He could back off or avoid the kerbs instead of accelerating. It didn't mean that Hamilton wasn't wrong (he should be guilty for crowding), but the collision itself was mostly Maldonado's fault.

 

[AlphaWolf]

They were faster, but not faster enough, as Alonso himself said, he used all his KERS against the DRS-zone, which was enough given Ferraris good straight speed (IIRC when Vettel was closest to him, the difference was only around 5km/h in the speed, despite the fact that Vettel had DRS open), he knew that if he can keep them behind through DRS zone, he's safe rest of the lap.

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2012/07/22/2012-german-grand-prix-fastest-laps/ uncheck all but top 5, you can see Alonso was a tad slower most of the time (first stint was good, but after that not so much), excluding right in the end that ghost lap

And if Alonso were right behind Vettel in the DRS zone, what happens then? Alsono also had the 2nd fastest lap time in the race and he didn't need to push because he wasn't trying to catch anyone.

 

[Kaotik]

And if Alonso were right behind Vettel in the DRS zone, what happens then? Alsono also had the 2nd fastest lap time in the race and he didn't need to push because he wasn't trying to catch anyone.

Yes, but that was some ghost lap right before the end, and the fact that Alonso himself told how he had to use all the KERS in DRS zone to keep the lead tells enough of how much he had to push there - normally you don't use all your KERS at one point of the track.
If Alonso had been right after Vettel at DRS zone, based on the speed differences Alonso most likely could have passed Vettel there - the question remains if he could have driven through rest of the laps fast enough to be that close, though.

 

[suryad]

So the FIA just clarified their positon on the ECU mapping situation. Is it just me or does it seem all F1 is trying to do is strive for homogeneity? Only the cars body work will be diff across the grid?! I thought what Red Bull were doing was awesome. Why is that such an issue with the FIA? I don't get it. I think they should not allow for reg changes in the middle of the season.

 

[cjo]

So the FIA just clarified their positon on the ECU mapping situation. Is it just me or does it seem all F1 is trying to do is strive for homogeneity? Only the cars body work will be diff across the grid?! I thought what Red Bull were doing was awesome. Why is that such an issue with the FIA? I don't get it. I think they should not allow for reg changes in the middle of the season.

Because what Red Bull had implemented was essentially traction control - reducing torque in the mid-range of the engine revs to prevent wheels from spinning. That is already banned in another part of the rules, they just found a loophole which wasn't covered by the electronic aids or engine mapping rules. It isn't about homogeneity, its about everyone sticking to the same rules.

 

[Pete]

In Maldonado's case, you do have to realize that it wasn't intentional by any means, he had lost control of the car when it happened due Hamilton forcing him out of track - in fact, had the clarification of overtaking rules come out before that, it would be Hamilton getting the penalty without any doubts (and it's possible that he would have been penalized anyway, if his race hasn't stopped there and it was seen as penalty enough)

Wait, are you mixing that incident with the Perez one the next race, where you can see Maldonado correct mid-turn? In this case it just seems Mal basically tried what Vettel did to Button, passing on the outside line after going off the track, only Hamilton was actually alongside. It just seems like he rejoined the track somewhat unsafely.

To the untrained (read: my) eye, it looks like mostly Mal's fault in that he assumed Ham would make room for him (or hoped to scare him into it). It was similar to Vet's pass in that Ham's tires were clearly shot and Mal had time to attempt another pass. (Armchair driving in the first degree, I know.)

I'm really wondering why the FIA couldn't immediately indicate to Red Bull that he should relinquish the spot, which he had a(n admittedly tiny) bit of time to do, rather than wait to apportion the harsher penalty. I guess this is like arguing goal-line tech in football/soccer. It may make the sport fairer but at the expense of chatter/news coverage around a controversial decision. And I suppose Red Bull should have known, as McLaren did, that you can't pass off the track.

 

[Davros]

In general the fia dont do that, sometimes a team will contact charlie whiting for clarification

 

[Kaotik]

Wait, are you mixing that incident with the Perez one the next race, where you can see Maldonado correct mid-turn? In this case it just seems Mal basically tried what Vettel did to Button, passing on the outside line after going off the track, only Hamilton was actually alongside. It just seems like he rejoined the track somewhat unsafely.

To the untrained (read: my) eye, it looks like mostly Mal's fault in that he assumed Ham would make room for him (or hoped to scare him into it). It was similar to Vet's pass in that Ham's tires were clearly shot and Mal had time to attempt another pass. (Armchair driving in the first degree, I know.)

Hamilton left no room on the track, which forced Maldonado out (Maldonado tried to do exact same pass as Grosjean had done to Hamilton earlier, and on that Hamilton did leave enough room for Grosjean to stay on track.)

When he was out from track, he first corrected his direction right (to be in line with track) and then tried to turn left (where the track turned) but car didn't turn at all due either laying on the kerb or wheels bumped to air from it, which ended up in him t-boning Hamiltons car