Formula 1 - 2012 Season

[itsmydamnation]

It is a mistake that you think so.
First, Button did push Vettel off the circuit, he didn't provide enough space for both of them.
Second- Vettel did not cut the corner, he was obviously with the faster car, thus you think he got unfair advantage, when the only thing he did was to prevent both from collision course.
He didn't get advantage of the fact that he run as far as possible from the unstable accelerating opponent's car.

complete rubbish

look at the line button took into the corner, he didn't push anyone wide he continued the line that he took. A diver is entitled to take a defensive line into a corner. A car is not allowed to overtake off the track this point was recently made very clear by the FIA eailer this year after lewis overtook nico when nico "pushed" lewis off the track.

Vettel also intensionally ran wide to get better drive out of the corner by decreasing the angle of attack out of the corner. He had been doing this for the last 10 laps which was dodgy by itself.


just because your faster then the person infornt doesn't mean you get a free pass. You still have to take the position in a legal way and the person infront of you has every right to put his car into a corner however he likes to defend so long as he doesn't change his line ie. one defencive move.

 

[Davros]

So uni you believe using run off areas and overtaking while off the track is fine
this is prima variante from monza, you think its ok to overtake by driving over the run off and taking the line in red- really ?

 

[UniversalTruth]

...
look at the line button took into the corner, he didn't push anyone wide he continued the line that he took. A diver is entitled to take a defensive line into a corner. A car is not allowed to overtake off the track this point was recently made very clear by the FIA eailer this year after lewis overtook nico when nico "pushed" lewis off the track.

Vettel also intensionally ran wide to get better drive out of the corner by decreasing the angle of attack out of the corner. He had been doing this for the last 10 laps which was dodgy by itself.


just because your faster then the person infornt doesn't mean you get a free pass. You still have to take the position in a legal way and the person infront of you has every right to put his car into a corner however he likes to defend so long as he doesn't change his line ie. one defencive move.

complete rubbish

...............................................................

So uni you believe using run off areas and overtaking while off the track is fine

Where did you get that I was saying such things?

This rule is simply not acceptable. You should distinguish between different cases of overtaking. In this particular case you artificially limit or/and postpone the inevitable. Why? You provoke race accidents.

Do you distinguish between cutting a corner and just using the safety areas to escape from your crazy opponent who can hit you at any moment?
So, you think it is correct for Vettel to stop his acceleration and thus artificially limit something inevitable. Hahaha, lol.
The only advantage he had was the faster car, he didn't use any sort of shortcuts, even the opposite, going off circuit in that case means losing time.

 

[Davros]

youve spent the last few posts arguing that what vettell did was fine thats where I get the idea. your ok with drivers overtaking while they are not even on the track - would you allow someone to score a goal while not even on the football pitch.
vettel did not just use the run off to escape he used it to overtake - if a driver cannot slow down enough to make the corner using the run off is fine "but you cannot overtake while off the track"
and yes vettel should of stopped his acceleration or gave the place back
and no vettel gained time not lost it widening the corner allows you to brake less and carry more speed

as for "crazy opponent who can hit you at any moment?" you think Button drove crazily ? where you watching in a parallel universe or something?
Button left a cars width between him and the edge of the track when jenson took his line vettel was allready driving off track the "had to go off to avoid an accident is nonsense"

 

[UniversalTruth]

vettel gained time not lost it widening the corner allows you to brake less and carry more speed

This is nonsense. Don't you see that they were running at equal speed in the corner. How do you see it as described is beyond me.

as for "crazy opponent who can hit you at any moment?" you think Button drove crazily ? where you watching in a parallel universe or something?
Button left a cars width between him and the edge of the track when jenson took his line vettel was allready driving off track the "had to go off to avoid an accident is nonsense"

Of course, trying to protect a lost cause always carries a little bit of craziness.
Nonsense is according to you, I can't be sure what could have happend if Vettel had taken the line using the kerb itself.

Vettel did enjoy better acceleration and better traction, while Button was highly unstable and running next to him was with high risk. And because of this the penalty is ridiculous.

 

[cjo]

This is nonsense. Don't you see that they were running at equal speed in the corner. How do you see it as described is beyond me.



Of course, trying to protect a lost cause always carries a little bit of craziness.
Nonsense is according to you, I can't be sure what could have happend if Vettel had taken the line using the kerb itself.

Vettel did enjoy better acceleration and better traction, while Button was highly unstable and running next to him was with high risk. And because of this the penalty is ridiculous.

The problem is that the speed you can carry through the corner is dependent on how tight the corner is after the apex. By taking a wider line out of the corner, Vettel in essence defined his own, new corner, rather than the one that everyone else was driving. This meant he was able to travel towards the corner faster, brake later and possibly start accelerating earlier. If he was travelling at an appropriate speed to get round the corner, he wouldn't have been running at equal speed in the corner.

If Vettel wanted to only lose one position, he would have been better off yielding to Button when it became apparent to the team that there may have been a problem with the overtake, and then carried on racing normally, rather than being docked 20 seconds after the race.

 

[Bludd]

Alonso won!

 

[Davros]

Not so fast Bludd I've issued an official complaint about his eyebrows...

 

[Kaotik]

Not so fast Bludd I've issued an official complaint about his eyebrows...

I thought he only had eyebrow, not brows, being the missing link and all

 

[UniversalTruth]

I thought he only had eyebrow, not brows, being the missing link and all

Very "funny".

Now, it would be fair if you post an image of yourself, so we can see how handsome you are.

 

[Billy Idol]

Again a big team strategy failure. Cannot remember a season with this many dramatic team strategy failures.

Red Bull should have watched the scene and immediately tell Vettel that he should let pass Button. There was still a round left afterall, where he could easily overtake him...

 

[Kaotik]

Very "funny".

Now, it would be fair if you post an image of yourself, so we can see how handsome you are.

I've actually posted it here before

 

[Lightman]

I will put it simply. We all here on this forum, stewards at the race, many current F1 drivers, BBC commentators, Sky commentators and ex drivers (Brundle, Hill, Herbert, Davidson) and around 99% of people interested in F1 around the world think Vettel gained unfair advantage and you can't overtake outside of track.
UniversalTruth disagrees with that which means he disagrees with basically the whole world of F1.

Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, it's just some opinions are in minority.

 

[UniversalTruth]

Yeah, the "whole" British world. Oh, come on. You should define first what "unfair" advantage with a faster car is and then come again.

This is a political decision against Germany's Vettel.

 

[Bludd]

Yeah, the "whole" British world. Oh, come on. You should define first what "unfair" advantage with a faster car is and then come again.

This is a political decision against Germany's Vettel.

My bold. You are essentially claiming that there should not be any racing.

 

[Kaotik]

Yeah, the "whole" British world. Oh, come on. You should define first what "unfair" advantage with a faster car is and then come again.

This is a political decision against Germany's Vettel.

Add Finland to the list, too, and probably others as well. I wouldn't be surprised if german drivers and/or commentators would agree, too, since it was so obvious breach.

 

[Gerry]

Whilst we're slagging off Vettel, what was up with him when Hamilton unlapped himself? A perfectly clean overtake and Vettel starts throwing his toys out of the pram like it's something you're not allowed to do.

 

[UniversalTruth]

Add Finland to the list, too, and probably others as well. I wouldn't be surprised if german drivers and/or commentators would agree, too, since it was so obvious breach.

No matter what your attitude is... neither Britain nor Finland will see their world champions in many years to come. It will be Germany and Spain.

My bold. You are essentially claiming that there should not be any racing.

No, since conditions on track through race change, they are not static, so you observe ever changing distribution of power.

 

[cjo]

Yeah, the "whole" British world. Oh, come on. You should define first what "unfair" advantage with a faster car is and then come again.

Unfair advantage would be not sticking to the well-defined race track to allow you to take a corner faster.

 

[Bludd]

No matter what your attitude is... neither Britain nor Finland will see their world champions in many years to come. It will be Germany and Spain.



No, since conditions on track through race change, they are not static, so you observe ever changing distribution of power.

What? Why should Button leap out Vettel's way just because Vettel is in a faster car? If you have a faster car and you are behind someone you OVERTAKE them. You do it cleanly and fairly, not with all wheels off the road. Button gave plenty of space so Vettel could have stayed on track if he had chosen to. He didn't, he overtook off the track and he didn't give the place back. That is at least a drive-through.