Formula 1 - 2011 Season
- Thread starter Dave Baumann
- Start date
Quite a bit I think - out lap, "fast lap", in lap is 3 laps of wear. The softer tires give better grip, but have a much shorter lifespan, so 3 laps is possibly 10% of their life, and the best 10% at that. Drivers often use their outlap on new tires to make up as much ground as they can when the grip is highest
The teams are deathly afraid of damaging their tyres so they fall off the performance cliff, so they baby the tires as much as they can because saving a pit-stop can be crucial. I think there needs to be done something with the tyre situation re: quali. The teams can't be allowed not to run.
What about a case like Rosberg, where he couldn't do a lap in Qualifying due to car problems
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tongue_of_colicab
Veteran
Those are two totally different things. Your car breaks? Bad luck. Your car is running fine but you don't go out to save tires? No so great.
Great race!
I somehow knew JB could win. RedBull didn't look too confident all weekend. Somehow Alonso could keep Vettel behind even on hard tire, which previously was so much slower for Ferrari.
Also no one on BBC mentioned atomic start of Michael! Everyone around him just looked like going backwards
Next weekend more action
I somehow knew JB could win. RedBull didn't look too confident all weekend. Somehow Alonso could keep Vettel behind even on hard tire, which previously was so much slower for Ferrari.
Also no one on BBC mentioned atomic start of Michael! Everyone around him just looked like going backwards
Next weekend more action
"Whoops, our car isn't working properly, guess we won't be able to go out! what a shame
"Scrutineers will be able to examine the car in detail, so that won't work I think."Whoops, our car isn't working properly, guess we won't be able to go out! what a shame
What a fantastic race, Button deserved it and Alonso drove faultlessly. Vettel safed it in, who can blame him? He is on the podium and the WDC is his.
Schumacher did well, this track is one of his great ones.
Senna disappointed, I am a fan of his but this race was not good.
The RBR DRS is not all that impressive, they need to fix it for 2012.
I was impressed when RBR let Vettel and Webber come into the pits almost at the same time and got both cars out without losing any time.
Hamilton vs. Massa? Racing incident.
First corner Vettel vs. Button? Naughty, but no problem.
tongue_of_colicab
Veteran
RBR doesnt have a DRS problem, its just that the Renault engine isn't as powerfull as the Ferrari and Mercedes engines.
Sure, but it isn't that low on power. I think the RRB DRS wasn't designed for overtaking but for quali lap time and then they don't have to worry about it because they are on pole and Vettel is flying away at the start. It has been like that for 13 of 15 races this season.
DarthShader
Regular
Oh, so that is why Seb lost on power tracks like Monza and Spa... wait.
tongue_of_colicab
Veteran
But in quali the RB is also lacking pure top speed. Now that could also be due to the setup as the fastest cars usually don't have the highest topspeed to begin with but I don't think the RB could do Ferrari/mclaren/mercedes topspeeds even if they wanted. I don't think it has anything to do with their wing. All they can do is move the flap up and down a little bit. I don't think there is any real difference you can make with such a limit system between losing drag in clean air or in the wake of a other car.
The RB's strong point is it's downforce. Thats why its so fast. Obviously that works best in clean air. I think we've seen it a couple of times this season that when a RB gets stuck behind a other car and doesn't have much better tires they have a harder time overtaking. They are losing some downforce and because the renault engine is weaker they don't seem to have to pure topspeed to make passes the way the other top cars can.
The RB's strong point is it's downforce. Thats why its so fast. Obviously that works best in clean air. I think we've seen it a couple of times this season that when a RB gets stuck behind a other car and doesn't have much better tires they have a harder time overtaking. They are losing some downforce and because the renault engine is weaker they don't seem to have to pure topspeed to make passes the way the other top cars can.
tongue_of_colicab
Veteran
Well RB themselves said multiple times that the engine might be as much as 30bhp less powerfull. Besides, it's not like the car with the most power must win on a power track. If that would be the case, the Mercedes would have won those races as its always really fast. But there is also breaking, cornering and tire wear to keep in mind. Not just who can go fastest. And with the fixed gearing for the race it's even harder as teams have to compromise top speed for acceleration with high fuel loads. So yes, RB winning on power tracks with a car that has less power isn't impossible at all.
As you said, toc, RBR focuses on downforce and that is why they need to get a better DRS. Their DRS can't drop enough downforce/drag when activated. Their engine is fast enough, remember Vitaly Petrov in Abu Dhabi last year? Very high top speed.
tongue_of_colicab
Veteran
That's still no indication the RBR DRS isn't as effective as the one on the Ferrari and Mclaren. For all we know the Renault was running with less downforce. If the RBR DRS really was that ineffective it would also hurt them a lot in quali. I can't believe that the DRS is far less effective than the one on the Ferrari and Mclaren. If it really was that bad we would have heard atleast some rumors about it.
Renault engine was weaker compared to Merc up to 30bhp at some points of Power/Torque band.
So it's not that Renault has 720BHP engine and Merc or Ferrari 750BHP engines. They all very close when looking at the top power. Where the differences are is how soon and at what RPM they can get that max power.
Example:
Engine one @12000RPM = 680BHP
Engine two @12000RPM = 710BHP
Engine one @18000RPM = 749BHP
Engine two @18000RPM = 746BHP
Engine one @ 16000RPM = 738BHP
Engine two @ 16000RPM = 741BHP
Now which of the engines is better for racing? The one with higher top power or the one with better power across RPM range?
So it's not that Renault has 720BHP engine and Merc or Ferrari 750BHP engines. They all very close when looking at the top power. Where the differences are is how soon and at what RPM they can get that max power.
Example:
Engine one @12000RPM = 680BHP
Engine two @12000RPM = 710BHP
Engine one @18000RPM = 749BHP
Engine two @18000RPM = 746BHP
Engine one @ 16000RPM = 738BHP
Engine two @ 16000RPM = 741BHP
Now which of the engines is better for racing? The one with higher top power or the one with better power across RPM range?
The Renault V8 has been touted as a drivable engine lacking power slightly at the top end. It is clearly not a bad engine, since RBR can win so damn much with it.
Thus, aero has a bigger effect and I maintain (armchair expert mode) that the RBR DRS has not been a priority and thus is not up to par with the rest of the RBR package and of the top teams.
Thus, aero has a bigger effect and I maintain (armchair expert mode) that the RBR DRS has not been a priority and thus is not up to par with the rest of the RBR package and of the top teams.
