Formula 1 - 2011 Season

[Bludd]

Don't forget Roland Ratzenberger who died the very same weekend as Ayrton Senna did, during the qualifying.

I don't forget him, but Senna was the last person to die in F1.

That weekend was crazy. Rubens Barrichello had a big accident in practice, Roland Ratzenberger died in qualifying, Pedro Lamy ran into a stalled J. J. Lehto at the start of the race and Ayrton Senna died in the race.

Horrible weekend.

 

[Bludd]

Joe Saward is reporting that Team Lotus looks to be changing its name to Team Caterham AirAsia for 2012, and Lotus Renault GP will become some kind of Lotus-named team.

http://joesaward.wordpress.com/2011/08/26/lotus-and-lotus/

 

[Tahir2]

Did Maldanado cross into Lewis Hamilton's path or did Lewis turn into Maldanado's?

Almost ruined Hamilton's qualifying, lucky for him the damage was easily repairable and he still managed a good 2nd - Vettel still shows he is the master of qualifying.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/formula_one/14694054.stm

 

[Kaotik]

Did Maldanado cross into Lewis Hamilton's path or did Lewis turn into Maldanado's?

Almost ruined Hamilton's qualifying, lucky for him the damage was easily repairable and he still managed a good 2nd - Vettel still shows he is the master of qualifying.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/formula_one/14694054.stm

It's clear in the video that Maldonado did nothing, while Hamilton first did one short move, and then longer curve straight to Maldonados car, IMO
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_0AYDK67Elc
The longer "curve" towards Maldonado happens around 18-19 secs.

And unsuprisingly, Maldonado got penalty and Hamilton yet again just warning, he has now what, 10 warnings this season with no penalties, even though just 3 or something warnings were supposed to give you serious penalty already.
Having another british driver being part of stewards this race definately couldn't hurt the british golden boys chances before the stewards.

edit:
This is just brilliant: http://fia.com/en-GB/mediacentre/f1_media/Pages/on_event.aspx documents 25 & 26

They have EXACT same "facts", both were judged to have caused the collision, yet only Maldonado got penalty

 

[Tahir2]

In Hamilton's defense, you have to curve as the track curves, and he was caught unawares.

Seems to me Maldanado intentionally decided to get too close to Hamilton on the cooling off lap and then overtake him in such a way to make his presence known.

There was intent in Maldanado's passing and the intent was a big "f**k you" to Hamilton. Just like his driving he didnt quite pull it off. Only a jerk behaves like that.

 

[Kaotik]

Hamilton ran wide on the corner and got off it worse which is why Maldonado got so close, Maldonados options were to overtake or hit the brakes, he chose overtaking, perhaps partly to show him that "dude, sticking your nose to so small gap that we hit each other isn't something you do when both are on flying qualifying lap", but regardless it was just 1 option out of 2, and he chose the overtake which had nothing wrong in it itself.
The problem is that Hamilton did first 1 move towards Maldonado, which could be seen as "whoa, didn't see you there and got shocked" or just as "f#%k you" as Maldonados overtake, but no-one crashed due that np - the problem is that then Hamilton moved more to the left and started going right towards Maldonado on the right who was already half car ahead. Everyone should know that it won't end well, cool off lap or not.

 

[Phil]

EDIT: Never mind, no good will come off with arguing a lost cause.

IMO the penalty was issued quite some time after the session, which to me gives the impression that they considered all data available to them: Everything ranging from all drivers input (throttle, braking, steering) to video footage from around the track as well as onboard to judge ones intentions fairly well. They have also spoken to both drivers.

 

[Phil]

BTW some pictures:

 

[Tahir2]

Awesome pics, whereabouts are you sitting?

 

[holsty101]

Seems pretty clear to me that Maldonado deliberately swerved into Hamilton as a FU for Hamilton passing him at the chicane, v stupid move & I don't think a 5 place grid drop was harsh enough TBH.

 

[Bludd]

What Kaotik fails to realise is that Hamilton was in front, he can take whatever line he wants. It is up to Maldonado to SAFELY overtake and there was a lot of room where they were, Maldonado did not have to be so close to Hamilton. I am quite okay with Hamilton's warning and Maldonado's penalty. Hamilton didn't react correctly when Maldonado was beside him, hence the warning, but Maldonado should never have been so close, hence the penalty.

 

[Kaotik]

What Kaotik fails to realise is that Hamilton was in front, he can take whatever line he wants. It is up to Maldonado to SAFELY overtake and there was a lot of room where they were, Maldonado did not have to be so close to Hamilton. I am quite okay with Hamilton's warning and Maldonado's penalty. Hamilton didn't react correctly when Maldonado was beside him, hence the warning, but Maldonado should never have been so close, hence the penalty.

Huh? Maldonado was clearly ahead when they hit, and going much, much faster, even Hamilton said that it was lucky that Maldonado's rear wheel didn't hit his front wheel

 

[Kaotik]

This is just ridicilous, Hamilton blames Kobayashi bashed right into him, and it won't even be investigated (perhaps because Hamilton starts to have too many reprimands and actually would be punished soon)

 

[DarthShader]

Where does he blame Koba? Here he says he's not sure what happened: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/94073

Either Hamilton missed the braking point a bit, or Koba tried to turn in too early - a racing accident.

Hamilton didn't react correctly when Maldonado was beside him, hence the warning, but Maldonado should never have been so close, hence the penalty.

Exactly. The available camera angles made it hard for me personaly to judge it, a top view would help a lot.

 

[cjo]

This is just ridicilous, Hamilton blames Kobayashi bashed right into him, and it won't even be investigated (perhaps because Hamilton starts to have too many reprimands and actually would be punished soon)

Oh please, we all know you hate Hamilton, any incident is always his fault. If the position was reversed, you'd say it was Hamilton's fault because Kobayashi was in front and that it would have been Hamilton's responsibility because his front wheel was only level with Kobyashi's back wheel. But because Hamilton was in front this time, it's...still Hamilton's fault?

How about from now on, if Hamilton is involved in an incident, we'll assume you are outraged, that it has to be Hamilton's fault, that he could have killed someone and that you think he should be banned from racing for life, and if you ever feel any different you'll post an let us know?

 

[Kaotik]

Hamilton was in front, but you can't push others out from track just because you're ahead - had there been more room on the left for kobayashi to dodge it would have been fine, but nothing gives you the right to push the other out from track.
In Q2's case there was plenty of room.

Every single other driver passing from right on that straight kept the line on the right or middle of the track, Hamilton tried to push to the left side which meant either Kobayashi going to grass or crash.

Pretty much everyone but Hamilton & Withmarsh on BBC's stream seem to agree it was Hamiltons fault.

 

[cjo]

Hamilton was in front, but you can't push others out from track just because you're ahead - had there been more room on the left for kobayashi to dodge it would have been fine, but nothing gives you the right to push the other out from track.
In Q2's case there was plenty of room.

When one is clearly ahead (Hamilton had barely his front tire at his rear tire level) and is following normal racing line, he's not having any part in any possible crash, it's all overtakers responsibility.

Make your mind up.

 

[Kaotik]

Make your mind up.

It's obviously overtakes responsibility still, but in this case Hamilton had already made his defensive line change to the middle, Kobayashi can't assume Hamilton will do another line change since it's not allowed in F1, thus his positioning on the normal racing line should have been safe.
Also, he was far, far closer to Hamilton that in your example, where Hamilton was barely getting his front tires at the level of Button's rear tyres and not quite even there, compared to Kobayashi having his front tyres around the level of middle of Hamiltons sidepods, or at least clearly ahead of his rear tyres. And Button didn't even make a SINGLE defensive move in that Canada incident, let alone 2.

20.2 Manoeuvres liable to hinder other drivers, such as more than one change of direction to defend a position, deliberate crowding of a car beyond the edge of the track or any other abnormal change of direction, are not permitted.

 

[cjo]

It's obviously overtakes responsibility still, but in this case Hamilton had already made his defensive line change to the middle, Kobayashi can't assume Hamilton will do another line change since it's not allowed in F1, thus his positioning on the normal racing line should have been safe.
Also, he was far, far closer to Hamilton that in your example, where Hamilton was barely getting his front tires at the level of Button's rear tyres and not quite even there, compared to Kobayashi having his front tyres around the level of middle of Hamiltons sidepods, or at least clearly ahead of his rear tyres. And Button didn't even make a SINGLE defensive move in that Canada incident, let alone 2.

The move over to the left wasn't a defensive move though. He was ahead, and was trying to take the normal racing line round the corner. Kobyashi wasn't crowded out of the race circuit, he could have aborted his attempted overtake. It also wasn't an abnormal change of direction - he was following the normal racing line.

The simple fact is, if the positions were reversed you would have been having a go at Hamilton for a reckless overtaking move, using the fact that the collison was with the rear wheel of the car in front as a reason to say that he was nowhere near managing to overtake and should have aborted an otherwise dangerous overtake. But because it was Hamilton in front, it is a totally different situation in your eyes, where Hamilton should have yielded to the overtaking car. As I have said, you will never say that Hamilton is in the right, and we may as well assume that is your opinion in any race, negating the need for you to say so every single time.

 

[Kaotik]

It is a defensive move when Kobayashi was trying to overtake him, and was already partly to his side.
Kobayashi was the one on the normal racing line, Hamilton made the defensive move and moved to middle, he should have by regulations stayed there 'till the corner, but instead he tried to switch over to normal racing line which was already occupied, thus crashed.

edit:
http://twitter.com/#!/LewisHamilton

After watching the replay, I realize it was my fault today 100%. I didn't give Kobayashi enough room though I thought in was past.