Final Fantasy XIII announced for PS3!

[PeterT]

To expand upon SerenityPD's point, the similarity between the various Final Fantasy titles is actually far smaller than that between most completely unrelated FPS games. They have wildly varying settings, characters, item/battle systems and stories. Most FPS are either generic sci-fi, WW2 or some other (recent) historic war. Think about it.

(And now I made a fool of myself like czekon by posting about a subject I know next to nothing about, namely FPS. Let's see if my point is as easy to disprove)

 

[Shifty Geezer]

i can't deny a visual values of FFXIII, but i'm bored of FF. It's over and over again the same and the game is almost non interactive, it's like watching a movie.

I think these turn-based JPRGs just aren't your thing then. They're more a thinking game like chess than an action game like a sport - not everyone's cup of tea.

 

[cthellis42]

Compared to western RPG's FF is much less interactive in terms of your dialogue, how you can effect the story, and how the game world responds to your actions. It also tends to have overly lengthy narratives and alot of cut-scenes, so I can see where he;s coming from.

...which is constantly brought up, but usually off the mark. I can count on the fingers of one hand the number of "western" RPG's that actually offer meaningful dialogue options, meaningful game-world affects because of them, and divergent plot and story that amount to more than the "alternate endings" that are a staple on the other side of the ocean as well.

There's been a surge of "good guy/bad guy" simultaneous plotlines of late, but that doesn't actually mean they offer those desired elements well either. It mainly means they thought enough to have TWO storylines instead. Quite possibly two more-hokey ones because of it, to boot.

The main thing I see the "interactivity" leading to in western RPGs is more side-quests, mini-plots, and the like. Something which you seem to say eastern RPGs have in abundance as well.

The thing I've always liked most about FF games is sheer amount of content/sidequests they tend to have and nearly endless opportunity for exploration.

There just seems to be less interactivity to get to them.

 

[Nesh]

My take on Eastern and Westerm RPGs

Western = hey lets make an RPG game. Just throw a story in it to get it done.


Eastern= Lets make an RPG with a great story and characters you can connect with.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

My take on Eastern and Western RPGs

Western = Let's create an RPG who's heritage is tied to PnP types like ADnD, with heroic characters and a fairly loose story driving complex character levelling, and with loads of inventory so they make stupid amounts of gold without it ever weighing them down.

Eastern= Lets make an RPG with a bizarre story that most people can't understand, super-emotional characters who keep arguing with each other, and chuck in a whole load of unrelated ideas like combining swords, guns, magic, monsters, teddy bears, and don't bother to explain any of it, so it has the coherancy of a particularly strange dream.

 

[Sdw]

Yeah, I have to agree with Shifty Geezer there. I played Final Fantasy VII (which was supposed to be a quite good one), and I did enjoy the semi-round-based battle system, the pretty graphical effects (summons etc.)
But the story and characters that were supposed to be so good..? W T F? The great dialog seemed mostly to consist of people saying "...", and I think most of the characters behavior was completely erratic and strange.
Another thing that bothered me was that while some enemies/monsters were cool and all, all of the sudden you would be fighting something that looked like a living house which shot rockets?
And one summon was some kind of yellow cartoon thing, complete with Batman-from-the-60ies-TV-seires "KABLAMM" splash.
Ehh...? No, thanks, a bit more consintency for me please.

 

[Nesh]

Yeah, I have to agree with Shifty Geezer there. I played Final Fantasy VII (which was supposed to be a quite good one), and I did enjoy the semi-round-based battle system, the pretty graphical effects (summons etc.)
But the story and characters that were supposed to be so good..? W T F? The great dialog seemed mostly to consist of people saying "...", and I think most of the characters behavior was completely erratic and strange.
Another thing that bothered me was that while some enemies/monsters were cool and all, all of the sudden you would be fighting something that looked like a living house which shot rockets?
And one summon was some kind of yellow cartoon thing, complete with Batman-from-the-60ies-TV-seires "KABLAMM" splash.
Ehh...? No, thanks, a bit more consintency for me please.

When did you play it?

 

[Nesh]

My take on Eastern and Western RPGs

Western = Let's create an RPG who's heritage is tied to PnP types like ADnD, with heroic characters and a fairly loose story driving complex character levelling, and with loads of inventory so they make stupid amounts of gold without it ever weighing them down.

Eastern= Lets make an RPG with a bizarre story that most people can't understand, super-emotional characters who keep arguing with each other, and chuck in a whole load of unrelated ideas like combining swords, guns, magic, monsters, teddy bears, and don't bother to explain any of it, so it has the coherancy of a particularly strange dream.

Btw have you playied Vagrant Story? I think it is one of the best examples of a perfect RPG that has a great balance in everything. Except the length

 

[GB123]

Will it ever end? Are there any teams left to develop this?

HAERESIS = "heresy"

I'm not really sure what to make of this, other than they obviously bothered to register the name, and they haven't yet shown it at E3.

This one will be announced at TGS and i'm guessing for the 360.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Yes, that was a wierd one too. Didn't get very far though. It was all right up until some big monster but I couldn't get past him.

I can appreciate both west and east RPGs, but I can see how some people can't cope with one or other. And I think I'd go spare if I could only play JRPGs. Nice as they are as part of a broader set of genres, there's only so much uber-wide-eyed on-screen-exclamation-mark big-spritual-metaphysical-nemesis-that-you-kill-once-and-it-grows-bigger-and-you-kill-again-and-then-it-comes-back-even-bigger-still-and-then-kill-again-and-it's-you're-former-best-friend-returned-in-evil-form-that-you-have-to-kill-twice-to-win that I can endure before I want to meet a normal baddy, that I bash with sword and not a happy little catcus, and he stays dead except when a mage/monk ressurects him.

 

[PeterT]

Of course many JRPGs have some repetitive/"trademark" story elements, but there are also many exceptions... ie. play any game in the SMT or Persona series. Personally, I actually enjoy some of the stranger conventions - I recommend reading The Grand List Of Console Role Playing Game Clichés to any JRPG fan, it will entertain you for sure

However, it's not like western RPGs are free of their own clichés and conventions. Again, there are exceptions, like the best game ever Planescape: Torment, but the D&D inspired tolkienesque medieval fantasy setting is still king. Like Shifty I enjoy both genres (I think they are actually quite disparate) but at this point in time I seem to prefer JRPGs overall. (Oblivion failed to really fascinate me, and I'm a TES fan. I'll take some spiky hair and big eyes over an uber-realistically rendered world with not a single child in it, where everyone is the same height, any day)

 

[GB123]

uber-wide-eyed on-screen-exclamation-mark big-spritual-metaphysical-nemesis-that-you-kill-once-and-it-grows-bigger-and-you-kill-again-and-then-it-comes-back-even-bigger-still-and-then-kill-again-and-it's-you're-former-best-friend-returned-in-evil-form-that-you-have-to-kill-twice-to-win

I must admit the FF series has become more consistant since the FF7 days..

FF12 is almost star wars like...

I really like how Japanese RPG's are off the wall, many anime series are like this also, gota love japanese humour..

 

[Sdw]

When did you play it?

Played it a bit first at a friends house when it was brand new (back when the PSX graphics was impressive! )
Then I picked it up and played via emulator not long ago. Got as far as some kind of dumb DDR-like marching exercise, then I lost interest.

 

[Nesh]

Yes, that was a wierd one too. Didn't get very far though. It was all right up until some big monster but I couldn't get past him.

I can appreciate both west and east RPGs, but I can see how some people can't cope with one or other. And I think I'd go spare if I could only play JRPGs. Nice as they are as part of a broader set of genres, there's only so much uber-wide-eyed on-screen-exclamation-mark big-spritual-metaphysical-nemesis-that-you-kill-once-and-it-grows-bigger-and-you-kill-again-and-then-it-comes-back-even-bigger-still-and-then-kill-again-and-it's-you're-former-best-friend-returned-in-evil-form-that-you-have-to-kill-twice-to-win that I can endure before I want to meet a normal baddy, that I bash with sword and not a happy little catcus, and he stays dead except when a mage/monk ressurects him.

Well depends to what JRPG's you choose to play. But indeed there are tons of JRPGs that are like that

Of course many JRPGs have some repetitive/"trademark" story elements, but there are also many exceptions... ie. play any game in the SMT or Persona series. Personally, I actually enjoy some of the stranger conventions - I recommend reading The Grand List Of Console Role Playing Game Clichés to any JRPG fan, it will entertain you for sure

However, it's not like western RPGs are free of their own clichés and conventions. Again, there are exceptions, like the best game ever Planescape: Torment, but the D&D inspired tolkienesque medieval fantasy setting is still king. Like Shifty I enjoy both genres (I think they are actually quite disparate) but at this point in time I seem to prefer JRPGs overall. (Oblivion failed to really fascinate me, and I'm a TES fan. I'll take some spiky hair and big eyes over an uber-realistically rendered world with not a single child in it, where everyone is the same height, any day)

ROFLMAO HAHAHAHA great link!! *thumps up*

Played it a bit first at a friends house when it was brand new (back when the PSX graphics was impressive! )
Then I picked it up and played via emulator not long ago. Got as far as some kind of dumb DDR-like marching exercise, then I lost interest.

You should have playied it when it was still fresh. If I playied the game recently too I wouldnt have enjoyied either. It's got many flaws now that so many next gen RPG's came after it that improved one after the other.

About the crazy little things like the house and the Chocobo bird summon (the yellow cartoon thing ) are things you shouldnt take so seriously. Its a part of the Japanese culture and FF was directed to them mostly. It had many elements from the 2D JRPGs and previous FFs and it was the first to go to 3D. So it took many previous elements with it as the first effort.

You should face FF as a japanese RPG that made it to the west and forgive such things that are incompatible with our culture. Its an old game now. These were more forgivable in 1997

These things feel more annoying today that RPGs evolved. Its unfortunate that you didnt enjoy it at the time you might have enjoyied. Because other than some wacko crazy things, superdeformed characters etc in the game some things feel weird from a gameplay standpoint too because they are obsolete to the standards that we have today.

FF7 was directed towards Japanese gamers at the time. It was after its success in the west as well that RPGs(and more specifically JPRG's) generally became so popular.

After that FF games got rid of many of these funny looking elements and became more seriously themed. Comparing FF7's art direction with the new JRPG's its like comparing Dragonball's art direction with Akira's. If FF7 was remade you would have seen it with a dirrent eye.

If you ever watch Advent Children you will understand how cool the characters actually are and felt in 1997.

 

[Sdw]

You should have playied it when it was still fresh. If I playied the game recently too I wouldnt have enjoyied either. It's got many flaws now that so many next gen RPG's came after it that improved one after the other.

Good point. I did get the impression from many that FFVII was so good that it would still be a superb game, which I why I decided to give it a try, but that might just be peoples judgement being clouded by nostalgia.
Which FF game (or other JRPG) would you recommend starting with then? Is FF8/9 better, or is it only the latest PS2 games that you would say are up to modern standards?
Or should I try an entirely different series as a introduction to JRPG?

 

[Nesh]

Good point. I did get the impression from many that FFVII was so good that it would still be a superb game, which I why I decided to give it a try, but that might just be peoples judgement being clouded by nostalgia.
Which FF game (or other JRPG) would you recommend starting with then? Is FF8/9 better, or is it only the latest PS2 games that you would say are up to modern standards?
Or should I try an entirely different series as a introduction to JRPG?

Hmm... hard to suggest. I wouldnt want to suggest something you wouldnt like because your taste may differ very much from mine. Also its been a few years since I playied FF8 and 9 so nostalgia may cloud my mind as well.

So I ll just say a few things about each

FF8 sure has improved on almost every aspect. Definetely. Only problem the summons take too much time to perform. The looks first of all is more western-culture-friendly. Very nice RPG. I think this is easier to accept. You might like it. I am sure you will like it more than FF7.

FF9 is a mix between 8 and 7 though. The battle system is improved as well as the graphics over 8 but I dont know if you are going to love the art direction.

Vagrant Story(PS1 too) is another good RPG. It has a gothic feel, looks like the story happens between the dark and Victorian age. Beautiful art direction, very nice battle system. I found it very challenging though. The story is also very nice.

But I dont know if you are going to like them based on todays standards. I suggest you should try them first.

I think it would be safer to wait for FF12 to be released over our area to check it out and decide by yourself since its new and improved. Square made many changes in this game. I think one improvement is the fact that its the first FF that doesnt have the annoying random battles. The battle system is also more active.

I ve heard great things about it. It got 40/40 in famitsu if I am right.

 

[czekon]

Painfully obvious you haven't played any of them (or only played a single one)..

well i finished FF7 i started FF8, FF9 and about two weeks ago i tried to play FFX.I dont count Chrono cross, grandia, breath of fire, suikoden and yada yada i played many of them on Psx. FF7 was amazing RPG when i was 17 and i didnt have too much contact with RPG, but later after playing Fallout 1/2(best RPG ever made), Kotor 1/2, it's not my type anymore. Cutscene, battle,cutscene, battle,save and again cutscene... .

The games aren't anywhere near non-interactive (for example, I have 600 hours on FFX... non-interactive my ass). None of the games are the same, or even very similar. Certain things can be found in each game (or most of the games), such as Chocobos, Cid, some Summons, etc, but the battle systems, stories, and characters (save for one spinoff so far) are totally unique and the games play totally different from each other..

really ? chorno cross, FF ,breath of fire,suikoden , grandia ... i think they are and a LOT

I mean, seriously, if you want to talk bad about the series, at least educate yourself first. The first thing people generally say is "but I don't want to play a movie" which just shows that you've never bothered to play a single FF title ever, ruining your "credibility" on the matter.

Ok i think i am "educated" in terms of jRPG or at least i try like 20 of them. "interactive" let just say : play and finish Fallout and i think you will get my point. Just look at influence system in kotor 2, how abaout statistic describe your verbal skills, negotiations and so. Just talk with NPC and you can finish a quest in few differeny ways.You have a moral choices, how about .. forget i dont even want describe this all, is pointless.

 

[Nesh]

well i finished FF7 i started FF8, FF9 and about two weeks ago i tried to play FFX.I dont count Chrono cross, grandia, breath of fire, suikoden and yada yada i played many of them on Psx. FF7 was amazing RPG when i was 17 and i didnt have too much contact with RPG, but later after playing Fallout 1/2(best RPG ever made), Kotor 1/2, it's not my type anymore. Cutscene, battle,cutscene, battle,save and again cutscene... .

Are you sure we are talking about the same game here?

 

[czekon]

Are you sure we are talking about the same game here?

if you think about FF7,FF8,FF9,FFX then yes

 

[Nesh]

if you think about FF7,FF8,FF9,FFX then yes

Ahm....are you really really sure that all you got from FF especially from 7,8,9 were "Cutscene, battle,cutscene, battle,save and again cutscene... ."?