Sony Playstation Meeting September 7 2016 [PS4 Slim, PS4 Pro, Rumors, Speculations, and News]

[MrFox]

Does not compute, since HDR will be supported on slim and fat with a fw upgrade...... Is it the combo of 4k and HDR that does not work over HDMI 1.4, then?

The maximum physical bitrate of 1.4a supports 4K/30fps in 8 bits, but only 24fps in 10bits which is required for HDR. Maybe it's possible as long as they are stuck at 24fps.

But it doesn't matter, without HDCP 2.2, no content provider will allow 4K. Case closed. I seriously doubt it's possible to implement the new crypto by a firmware update, no matter how flexible their display controller is, these things are secure by virtue of full hardware implementation.

 

[turkey]

even if that was the case for hdcp 2.2, which I don't believe it is.
do you think Netflix etc would allow that platform to stream their stuff without hdcp security? Don't see it happening especially for 4k content

I should clarify I meant physically possible as per the 4k stream decode being possible but unlikely.

I cannot see Netflix content providers being happy, but perhaps 40million installed units may allow them to look away.

Microsoft managed it on 360 but I don't expect Sony to attempt it.

 

[mrcorbo]

Not with the CPU, but a GPGPU solution could definitely do it. At the cost of consuming as much power as a AAA game, though.


It would have generated a lot of power compared to H264 decoding, but I don't think they wouldn't be able to get it running using GPGPU.
IMO, there's really no reason why 4K H265 video decoding couldn't be parallel enough to take almost full advantage of the Xbone's 1.2 TFLOPs FP32.

IIRC, Intel's Broadwell can do 4K H265 using GPU+CPU, using much smaller GPUs. Sure there might be no practical interest in making it possible (neither the original xbone or ps4 have HDCP2.2 anyways), but I'm pretty sure it would be feasible for the current-gens.

Here's the link to the original statement. Apparently it *could* do Netflix 4K @ 24fps and 15Mbps in software. The point about the system working flat-out to do it and that not being desirable stands, though.

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showth...-Xbox-One-S-(4K-Video-Capable-Xbox-One)/page2

Edit: More

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?129063-Weapon-FPGA&p=1480254&viewfull=1#post1480254

Edit: And yet one more. 4K Netflix almost happened for OG XBOne, but got cancelled due to layoffs.

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showth...le-Xbox-One)&p=1636269&viewfull=1#post1636269

 

[Kaotik]

Does not compute, since HDR will be supported on slim and fat with a fw upgrade...... Is it the combo of 4k and HDR that does not work over HDMI 1.4, then?

Yes, that's what I meant. Not sure where the resolution/Hz limit is exactly with HDR on pre-2.0(b) HDMI, but HDR does require extra bandwidth over SDR so I'm quite sure it's under 4Kp30. Then there's the small detail of HDMI 1.4 not supporting HDR officially, but I doubt that would stop anyone from pushing it through anyway.

 

[mpg1]

https://bethesda.net/#en/events/gam...to-ps4-for-skyrim-and-fallout4/2016/10/04/221

So Skyrim Remaster will be native 4K on Pro. It's an older game and will most definitely be at 30fps but still...kind of impressive no?

Also:
"We expect Fallout 4 to take advantage of the PS4 Pro in 4k along with enhanced lighting and graphics features."

Sounds like Fallout 4 might come close to native 4k on Pro??

 

[Kaotik]

Sounds like Fallout 4 might come close to native 4k on Pro??

Sure it could - but at what settings?
At Ultra settings, except for godrays and shadows which are set to "high", only Fury X, GTX 980 Ti, GTX Titan X and GTX 1080 reach over 30 FPS (probably GTX 1070 and the new Titan X too but they're not in the same review)
http://www.guru3d.com/articles-pages/nvidia-geforce-gtx-1080-review,19.html

 

[Silent_Buddha]

https://bethesda.net/#en/events/gam...to-ps4-for-skyrim-and-fallout4/2016/10/04/221

So Skyrim Remaster will be native 4K on Pro. It's an older game and will most definitely be at 30fps but still...kind of impressive no?

Also:
"We expect Fallout 4 to take advantage of the PS4 Pro in 4k along with enhanced lighting and graphics features."

Sounds like Fallout 4 might come close to native 4k on Pro??

Was that ever in question? Checkerboard rendering is native rendering after all. Unless people somehow considered the last Rainbow Siege as not natively rendered, and I haven't seen anyone anywhere making that claim .

Regards,
SB

 

[Jay]

Was that ever in question? Checkerboard rendering is native rendering after all. Unless people somehow considered the last Rainbow Siege as not natively rendered, and I haven't seen anyone anywhere making that claim .

Regards,
SB

What makes Rainbow Seige native, but not Quantum Break?
Curious what defines native in this regards if one is and the other isn't.
For me personally neither is native.

 

[mpg1]

I don't think the resolution created by checkerboard technique is considered "native".

Example:

Dice developer said Mass Effect: Andromeda on PS4 Pro is neither native 4K nor up-scaled and that it is "custom".

http://www.extremetech.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/PS4Scaling.png

 

[Globalisateur]

I don't think the resolution created by checkerboard technique is considered "native".

Example:

Dice developer said Mass Effect: Andromeda on PS4 Pro is neither native 4K nor up-scaled and that it is "custom".

http://www.extremetech.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/PS4Scaling.png

I believe the word they are all looking for is: "up-rendered".

But they lack courage and don't use it. Why.

 

[MrFox]

I believe the word they are all looking for is: "up-rendered".

But they lack courage and don't use it. Why.

The truth is actually "I could tell you but Cerny would kill me" which wouldn't be very good PR.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

What makes Rainbow Seige native, but not Quantum Break?
Curious what defines native in this regards if one is and the other isn't.
For me personally neither is native.

I personally would consider Quantum Break as native when not in motion and the reconstructed image is actually the native resolution, but non-native when in motion when the reconstruction isn't really in play.

After all, what do you call something when not all elements in a frame are "native" resolution (like many games using half res assets for certain things, as an example) but the final frame is "native" resolution? I'd consider that as similar to many reconstruction techniques that result in a final frame that is "native" resolution.

But that does bring up an interesting view in that since there is no "official" definition of what constitutes "native" that it's going to be defined by each individual. That's going to make PR potentially interesting in the future if say 2 developers use the same technique but one calls it native while the other calls it something else.

Things get even muddier if a "native" resolution game ends up with less detailed and muddier graphics than a game that uses some form of reconstruction (like the checkerboard rendering). What then does using "native" resolution even mean?

I guess in the end, I find it amusing that so many people are hung up on something being a native resolution of X versus something else that results in a frame at the native resolution of X as if that somehow means that it always results in inferior quality.

Regards,
SB

 

[Shifty Geezer]

There's always been a de facto definition for 'native' to mean 'opaque geometry', as the resolution was determined by counting the steps on the geometry edges. Everything else could be lower resolution without complaint. Checkerboard rendering is half-sampled native res, I guess. The pixels sampled and drawn are at native resolution, but only half are produced this way, and the other half are reconstructed. This is fundamentally different from a conventional upscale where every pixel is non-native and interpolated from more than one pixel value.

Checkerboard is thus...er...50% native.

 

[orangpelupa]

speculation: PS4 VR or PS4 Ultimate or PS4 Professional Premium with PlayStation VR Processing Unit Built-in That Supports HDR will be the next revision of PS4 Pro.

 

[milk]

Native resolution is an old fashioned concept. What I wanna know is if the pixels are fully unconpressed.

 

[JPT]

The truth is actually "I could tell you but Cerny would kill me" which wouldn't be very good PR.

That would be super PR, if you believe any PR is good PR. I mean Sony kills developer for releasing info on upscale rendering technique before Sony releases the info. Also it would mean, that people would have more respect for Sony Ninja Assassins.....

 

[mpg1]

Pretty sure "native resolution" is refers more to the display. Basically a 1080p TV has a native resolution of 1920x1080...

So if we are talking about console games on most TV's they would have to be either rendered at 1920x1080 or 3840x2160 to even be considered "native."

 

[Shifty Geezer]

So if we are talking about console games on most TV's they would have to be either rendered at 1920x1080 or 3840x2160 to even be considered "native."

What does 'rendered at' mean?

 

[BRiT]

Rendered at meaning scan out to TV.

 

[dobwal]

Yeah, I look forward to a reality where every dev under the sun claims their games render at 4K natively yet produce varying levels of artifacting due to some underlying reconstruction technique. I guess we are going to have invent a new term for what we now call "native" when comparing their tech to a gold standard. Maybe "true" 4K.