Xbox Series S [XBSS] (Lockhart) General Rumors and Speculation *spawn*

[cheapchips]

The power won't be untapped, even scalling up from XSS, it will be eaten up by rendering at a higher resolution, it may not even be able to hit 2160p easily in that regards.
wow that really puts it into perspective

Seeing it perspective would really put it's size in perspective! PS5 is twice the depth.

 

[mpg1]

They have not dropped the mike, more drop kicked it.

That is an awfully impressive price point to throw down at the launch of next gen, especially with so many favouring price and 1080p (One S sales, and all digital sales Vs One X), no second jobs required here.

As far as I can tell All Access brings it down to $240...

Probably the best bang for your buck overall...

 

[Deleted member 11852]

$299 is a price point I didn’t think they could hit. I was thinking they were at 399 ish. I gave up on LH being a console because I didn’t think they could hit that price.

They can hit $299, they'll just take a loss. If Microsoft are happy to take hit up from - until they can cost reduce it naturally - on the basis they can recoup those costs and more, then it makes sense.

It does feel they need a sizeable price gap between S and X though.

 

[iroboto]

oh shit $379.99 in Canada, tempting..

https://twitter.com/x/status/1303352332919476225

cheaper than switch here I think

 

[mpg1]

cheaper than switch here I think

$379.99CAD was the standard PS4 slim/Xbox One S(disc drive) price when they weren't on sale...

It's basically taking that place...

 

[goonergaz]

Size comparison mock up...

sn
Source: @XboxNewsReddit



Tommy McClain

It's not that small, even the PR says 60% smaller - that looks more like 75% smaller...it's not thick enough at least

 

[BRiT]

It's not that small, even the PR says 60% smaller - that looks more like 75% smaller...it's not think enough at least

Those 2 dimensions are, but the other dimension isn't smaller (depth). Its scaled by USB plug size. So unless they made the plug thicker on Series S so they would trick size estimators, it seems accurate enough.

To give an upper size limit on it, it is smaller than the One X (previously their smallest console). I am assuming total volume.

 

[goonergaz]

Those 2 dimensions are, but the other dimension isn't smaller (depth). Its scaled by USB plug size. So unless they made the plug thicker on Series S so they would trick size estimators, it seems accurate enough.

To give an upper size limit on it, it is smaller than the One X (previously their smallest console). I am assuming total volume.

Yeah, it's just deceiving

 

[dobwal]

It's not that small, even the PR says 60% smaller - that looks more like 75% smaller...it's not think enough at least

https://twitter.com/x/status/1303175365389508609

 

[goonergaz]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1303175365389508609

Yes, this makes it look thicker

 

[Picao84]

The cost of ray tracing changes largely with the number of rays. If you're reducing the resolution and not reducing the number of rays, why on earth did you have that number of rays in the first place? That goes for shadows and reflections and full on path tracing. And given the cost of ray tracing, you can bet that it will be made to not only scale with resolution, but dynamically with dynamic resolution. And in a hybrid rasteriser the number of rays can even change with what's on screen, and what initiates a RT job.

The whole point of DLSS is that you can reduce the resolution (including the RT load) and therefore run faster, and then construct a higher res image.

Some things, like GI probes of whatever might scale independently of resolution, but they'll still be scalable and you'll probably scale them based on your performance profile.

Here's Minecraft RTX on a 2080. Look for the RTX on, DLSS off, average fps numbers. 1440p vs 1080p.

https://www.pcgamer.com/uk/minecraft-with-rtx-preview-performance/

1440p -> 30 fps average
1080p -> 50 fps average

44% fewer pixels at 1080p, which should give you 53 fps if scaling directly with resolutoin. Actual number, 50 fps. That's pretty bloody close to scaling directly with resolution!

Thank you captain obvious. What you are really saying is that they can control the number of rays to increase performance. But there is zero direct correlation between resolution and Ray Tracing. As in, just because you reduce resolution, the number of rays does not automatically reduce, which was my point. Plus if you are reducing the number of rays, you will have less accuracy on the ray tracing effects produced, therefore the ray tracing quality will NOT be the same, maybe even to the extent that is completely pointless and does not add much to traditional rendering, which was my whole point of looking at XBSS as a not very viable machine for RT. Time and DF will tell if I'm wrong or not, but I expect XBSS to have significantly less ray tracing effects than XBSX.

Regarding the article, there is a data point missing: RTX Off and DLSS On. Otherwise it's impossible to distinguish if DLSS is benefiting more RTX, the normal rendering or both equally.

 

[Picao84]

At £249 in the UK it starts to make more sense and within what I was thinking for quite a while. Where are the naysayers saying that it was impossible?

 

[Adrian Orbis]

That shitty system has outsold XB1 and is outpacing PS4 when launch aligned. Anyhow, Nintendo's core consumers are quite different than the ones Microsoft are aiming for with XBSS.

I have a Switch lol, I said shitty in terms of specs because he was talking only about the Series S specs in relation to its price.

 

[mpg1]

I see a lot of comments about this playing games at 1440p. I doubt that will be the norm. Have to think the average AAA game will be 1080p to maintain similar framerates with XSX.

 

[cheapchips]

I see a lot of comments about this playing games at 1440p. I doubt that will be the norm. Have to think the average AAA game will be 1080p to maintain similar framerates with XSX.

I think 1440p is a marketing cap, to separate it from the 4k X.

Edit:Agree AAA 1080p avg. Anything not pushing graphics though will hit the marketing wall.

 

[iroboto]

$379.99CAD was the standard PS4 slim/Xbox One S(disc drive) price when they weren't on sale...

It's basically taking that place...

I remember that very small point in time when PS4 was $399 and then it went up to $450 lol.

 

[Rangers]

That shitty system has outsold XB1 and is outpacing PS4 when launch aligned. Anyhow, Nintendo's core consumers are quite different than the ones Microsoft are aiming for with XBSS.

Bingoooo the bolded makes all the difference (of why I dont feel XSS will compel consumers).

For people who want an Xbox or PS, power is a huge factor.

 

[iroboto]

Bingoooo the bolded makes all the difference (of why I dont feel XSS will compel consumers).

For people who want an Xbox or PS, power is a huge factor.

Well it's on Xbox to show it's value. Things have been revealed, yes, but not all things. I don't think the announcements are over quite yet so if they want to make a play for the non power market, perhaps they have more things to convince people of it. I don't know. But price is such an important factor, this price point is very good for people interested in dipping into both ecosystems.

 

[Esrever]

I think 1440p is a marketing cap, to separate it from the 4k X.

This is interesting because there are a ton of games this thing would be able to run at 4k 120FPS but would MS stop those games from targeting that resolution purely from product segregation perspective. Not every game is a AAA graphic fest.

 

[Rangers]

DigitalFoundry are going to be having fun with all these Xboxes. It'll be a full-time job just determining the resolutions and settings between the four Xbox consoles.

Microsoft's messaging for which Xbox to use under which scenario will be interesting.

I hazard a guess that the Series S will have two options; 1. Next gen graphics at last gen resolutions, 2. Last gen graphics at next gen resolutions.

If an Unreal Engine game appeared at 1440p on Series X where does that leave the other three boxes?

Yup, the last is another issue I've been harping on. And it will happen sooner and in great frequency. History tells us that. PS5 isn't even out yet and it's got 1440P 30 FPS UE5 demo.

MS does run the risk of having a highly confusing lineup here and the long names and changing names with every gen (Series X, S) further it.

That said to be fair, the One will be out of the picture pretty quickly, it will not be on store shelves long for starters. I believe even MS has walked back some of their promised 1st party current gen support after the Halo Infinite backlash, for example Forza 7 not being made for current gen already.

I also haven't weighed in on the 512GB SSD, but that alone can be a huge deterrent for potential XSS purchasers. Isn't COD already over 200GB on current gen? Any add on SSD will cost at LEAST $100, and that's being charitable, I think closer to $200 might be in play given PC SSD pricing and when you add in the proprietary tax possibility. So a XSS+1TB addon card SSD will be $400-$500, and you will end up with 1.5 TB storage. At that point XSX is clearly the better value if at any point ever you plan to add SSD capacity.