Sony PS6, Microsoft neXt Series - 10th gen console speculation [2020]

They already made a portable with the portal. I think they'll build on that as a complement to the PS6. Your PS6 can be your dedicated game server and you can play from anywhere in the world.
At far lower quality than playing locally or streaming from servers. Sales of portal look to be lower than Steam Deck, and far, far below PSP and Vita, so certainly the public doesn't see it as the equivalent of a dedicated handheld.
Xbox seems to be flirting with becoming a third party publisher.
There's a whole thread on that! This thread is discussing their next hardware, which is still going to launch next gen.
 
Some people are caught in a negative loop. If MS are releasing next gen 1st party hardware, then by definition they aren't a 3rd party. I hope people understand that you can't be a 1st party and a 3rd party at the same time. MS is a multiplatform 1st party, with the best console exclusive in gaming for Xbox - GamePass.

My friends and I just want a new GamePass box. We don't care what Sony does. There's only 30 million of us now, but apparently that's enough for MS to make us a new box. :)
 
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Games that are 10+ years old are actually only of interest to 1-2% of potential users. MS is targeting the 100+ million gamers with their next gaming model who are mostly interested in new games.

I've been an Xbox fan since the beginning, collecting games with the idea that I'd play them all someday. Well, since then I've realized that I'm only interested in current games and I only play new ones.

Furthermore, if I still want to play an old game, there are emulators that are constantly improving.

With the current global reputation of the brand, Microsoft don't have 100+ million gamers to sell to with just Xbox gaming devices, be they traditional consoles or PC hybrids. The brand appeal simply isn't there and hasn't been since the 360 era. Also with all their games being Day 1 on PC gaming platforms like Steam, that further reduces the realistic addressable base of gamers a new Xbox can sell to, specifically if it's more of a traditional console.

BC is also important because we're talking about libraries people have spent money on. Whether they plan on ever playing those games again or not, they expect that library to come with them now, as a customer in the digital era. Losing access to that library because maybe only 2% will regularly go back to play those old titles, is a quick way to erode consumer faith in the brand as a whole. It would just become a needlessly negative talking point against MS and Xbox when they're in a position, where they don't need any more of such if they can help it.

As for emulators...well, those are a legal grey area. Not necessarily for the emulators themselves (although, say, the Switch & PS4 emulators ARE illegal because patents for those systems have not ran out (hasn't been 20 years) and at least the Switch is still readily commercially available), but because a lot of people are using them to play games they don't legally own, or are accessed illegally. Unfortunately that's a big component of the emulation scene on PC, but I say "unfortunate" only outside the content of super-rare or abandonware titles.

Like, if someone's using an emulator to play Psychic Force or even Panzer Dragoon Saga, with ISOs/ROMs from online, I can understand that. Those games either never got home ports, never got GOOD home ports, or are so rare and difficult to obtain legally it'll cost you hundreds of dollars if not thousands just to get your hands on them. Realistically, most people don't have the lifestyle to pay $1,000+ dollars for a decent copy of a single game, and if the publisher doesn't have the game on any modern systems or storefronts, emulation's your only real option.

But there are a good number of people who are using emulators to play illegal copies of current releases, too. Heck one of the emulators for Switch had a site distributing ISOs of BOTW and TOTK. Those are current games; I can't support that type of emulation because it's not like you're paying hundreds of thousands to get one of 500 copies of those games. They're readily available on the market, today, for anyone to buy. Same goes for even older entries in current IP where you know the publisher keeps current with that series, unless the old entries are extremely rare and not readily available anywhere else to purchase.

So that's a few years out. Development would already have been ongoing in the preliminary stage. I assume Sony and AMD are deeply engaged with each other already, and if it follows a similar path as the PS5 I suppose the PS6 would sport a Zen ~6-7 core depending on development and release date, and a custom RDNA 5 based core? Whatever that will look like. Storage might get a tad quicker too I suppose. Feels like it could well be a PS5 2.0. Not terribly exotic until you get into finer details.

In either case I'm going to assume that studios will target a range of resolutions from 1080p to1440p or thereabouts, and rely on up-scaling to get the rest of the way to 4K in most - if not all - cases.

Microsoft seems like the wild card, considering talk of both handhelds and speculation of standard-based boxes in lieu of their own. Certainly going to be interesting to see what happens there. Could Sony follow suit and make their own portable? If they want to be wild I wouldn't mind seeing them make their own version of the Meta Quest. Go all in on portable VR with a cable to use the PS6 for a massive performance boost?

Keep in mind that RDNA isn't going to really be a thing anymore going forward. AMD are unifying RDNA and CDNA into UDNA, so PS6's GPU will be based around that unified UDNA.

Which, IMO, does make the talk about a separate NPU a bit outdated, as CDNA would have fulfilled that. Maybe Microsoft go with a separate NPU depending on if the GPU switches to another vendor (i.e Intel?), but it seems very likely SIE will not go with a separate NPU for PS6. They prefer trying to integrate various components in their designs, historically speaking. Whereas Microsoft can weave a bit one way or another (i.e the eSRAM in XBO & DDR3 memory), tho maybe not to the degree of older console makers i.e SEGA during the 16-bit & 32-bit eras.

I do hope with PS6, SIE expand more on PNM ideas, with focus on smart processing near the memory in order to cut down on bus transaction. Which will mean they can reign in the total memory bandwidth needed, even capacity to some extent. Also hoping the next gen implements technologies that help really speed up game development and bring costs down. For example, I don't know how feasible it is to develop an AI-driven ASIC, drivers etc. that can auto-generate more or less detailed geometry & texture LODs based on a singular level provided to train on by devs during development (coming down to systems & tools the platform holder would develop to facilitate it).

Figure it would need to do things like understanding various file formats and have on-the-fly analytical capabilities, parse metadata related to the asset models & textures, get feedback on the framebuffer, player viewport, relative distance of objects in relation to player (and visibility i.e are the objects obscured, tho I think parts of the graphics pipeline for geometry culling calculation would pick up on that ahead of time) etc. Can something like that be set in time for a 2028 system? Don't really know.

Maybe some built-in hardware for smart AI graphics filters could enhance the experience too, and help out speeding up aspects of development the way raytracing does (or is meant to, in theory).

They already made a portable with the portal. I think they'll build on that as a complement to the PS6. Your PS6 can be your dedicated game server and you can play from anywhere in the world. For the hw architecture its still too early to tell but it will have the latest CPU and GPU architectures of the year it releases in.

Xbox seems to be flirting with becoming a third party publisher. This news just came out today:


So you can imagine the next gen Xbox may not be a closed system

SIE definitely need a portable option for next gen, but I think it needs to be more than just another PS Portal. They really need something that can provide some level of native gaming, that doesn't require the user needing a PS6 home console to stream to it, and doesn't completely rely on the cloud.

So, the rumors of a next-gen PS handheld being somewhere around PS4 Pro - base PS5 in general native ability, but supporting a feature set with PS6 (and leveraging things like more advanced PSSR to handle resolution downscaling), hopefully take shape. I don't see why SIE can't have such a portable at the higher-end of the SKU market (I think such a portable would probably cost at least $449) while having a cloud streaming-only lower-cost option as well.

Especially for markets like Japan where, let's face it, they really do need a portable option to help climb back some market share specifically for B2P titles. The key target for a native portable, IMO, should be the ability to play PS6 titles natively, albeit downscaled in resolution and potentially framerate. Making it as easy as possible for devs to implement that without having them risk design scope to target what the PS6 can truly do (although for games that are cross-gen, that worry becomes heavily mitigated).
 
Boy hahaha.... He probably
knows more about the X360 than you will ever know.
Besides this being spurious, it still doesnt invalidate my initial point. How do you know much about such a system yet you're not aware about how popular and far reaching it was??
There's a whole thread on that! This thread is discussing their next hardware, which is still going to launch next gen.
Gotcha wrt to sticking to the topic at hand.

At far lower quality than playing locally or streaming from servers. Sales of portal look to be lower than Steam Deck, and far, far below PSP and Vita, so certainly the public doesn't see it as the equivalent of a dedicated handheld.
I think Sony likes to play it safe and progressively innovate. They've stated they're satisfied with performance and reception of the Portal. Consumers are buying them up and they have exceeded expectations set internally at Sony.

There are compelling reasons to make a device similar to the PSP or Steam Deck or Switch as a complement to the PS6. I agree with you on that but I think the hardware advancements for that would require it be released midgen of the PS6. That way it could have performance closer to a base PS5 in a portable device at an affordable price but with much better hw acceleration for upscaling. Otherwise releasing a new version of the Playstation portal to complement the PS6 seems much more likely in the near term. I can see this happening early on after the release of the PS6. Maybe called the Playstation portal pro with a huge battery, better connectivity with 5G & LTE retailing for $100 more than the normal portal. I dont think the two(PSP Switch type device or streaming type) are mutually exclusive when it comes to the PS6. They can both exist.
 
SIE definitely need a portable option for next gen, but I think it needs to be more than just another PS Portal. They really need something that can provide some level of native gaming, that doesn't require the user needing a PS6 home console to stream to it, and doesn't completely rely on the cloud.

So, the rumors of a next-gen PS handheld being somewhere around PS4 Pro - base PS5 in general native ability, but supporting a feature set with PS6 (and leveraging things like more advanced PSSR to handle resolution downscaling), hopefully take shape. I don't see why SIE can't have such a portable at the higher-end of the SKU market (I think such a portable would probably cost at least $449) while having a cloud streaming-only lower-cost option as well.

Especially for markets like Japan where, let's face it, they really do need a portable option to help climb back some market share specifically for B2P titles. The key target for a native portable, IMO, should be the ability to play PS6 titles natively, albeit downscaled in resolution and potentially framerate. Making it as easy as possible for devs to implement that without having them risk design scope to target what the PS6 can truly do (although for games that are cross-gen, that worry becomes heavily mitigated).
I agree with this.
 
I do hope with PS6, SIE expand more on PNM ideas, with focus on smart processing near the memory in order to cut down on bus transaction. Which will mean they can reign in the total memory bandwidth needed, even capacity to some extent.
Processing near memory? That would be quite novel. I don't know what it could bring to the table really, I'm not familiar enough. You have any examples?

Also hoping the next gen implements technologies that help really speed up game development and bring costs down. For example, I don't know how feasible it is to develop an AI-driven ASIC, drivers etc. that can auto-generate more or less detailed geometry & texture LODs based on a singular level provided to train on by devs during development (coming down to systems & tools the platform holder would develop to facilitate it).
To Sony's credit they do seem very attuned to developer needs since the PS4. I wouldn't know about Microsoft, so they might be as well for all I know. Hopefully they'll both broaden their tool-sets even further. This isn't hardware related, but it would be cool if Sony and MS (and Nintendo) set up a publishing and developer support arm specifically geared towards indie or "low end" developers. Games are incredibly complex, and getting far to expensive to make.

I recall there being quite the discussion about the fall of the PS Vita being related to that reason. As compared to Nintendo DS/3DS, the Vita demanded quite a few more development dollars to look and feel competitive on the platform. Shrinking its game library and raising prices. Now that's a vague memory of mine at this point, but it does at least feel logical. I think we're all for powerful hardware and splendid looking games, but it does come at a cost.
 
Imagine the possibilities. Mass stuttering and poor optimization no longer limited to the PC!!

But think of the other possibilities.

The one thing holding Direct Storage back from realising its full potential was the hardware decompression block in Series consoles. By moving that workload onto the GPU DS can realise its full potential.

To cause additional stutters.

And please, god, make sure the game and the OS can hit the pagefile. Those are some of my favourite stutters and pauses. 🙏
 
With the current global reputation of the brand, Microsoft don't have 100+ million gamers to sell to with just Xbox gaming devices, be they traditional consoles or PC hybrids.
"MS is targeting the 100+ million gamers with their next gaming model"

Gaming model =/= only own devices
 
Why does it matter what API are games using? Win32 is perfectly fine, its subset is already supported on consoles and ERA migration library (EMiLi) exists. A lot of win32 on Windows has seen oxidation so this + smaller attack surface is a no-brainer.
 
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