I do it because I'm curious if there's a proven market for more traditional third-party games, for one. There's a lot of divergence. On Neogaf, for instance, it's a given fact that third party games sell and that it's only a matter of time before all big exclusives come to the Wii. Elsewhere you'll hear the exact opposite. Naturally, neither side really knows what they're talking about and are just going on good old folksy internet wisdom.
What if the Wii outsells the PS2 in 7 years?
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I do it because I'm curious if there's a proven market for more traditional third-party games, for one. There's a lot of divergence. On Neogaf, for instance, it's a given fact that third party games sell and that it's only a matter of time before all big exclusives come to the Wii. Elsewhere you'll hear the exact opposite. Naturally, neither side really knows what they're talking about and are just going on good old folksy internet wisdom.
What?.. if I hadn't seen my quote in your post I'd have thought you were replying to someone else for most of that
I only posted a list of Wii third party million sellers in response to a question about wether or not any third party games had sold well on Wii. Yet from your response you'd think that I'd claimed Wii had much more millions sellers then 360 and that all third party games should be automatically ported to Wii.. I never even mentioned the 360 once 
BTW if you or anyone else want to remove certain games then suit yourself, you don't need me to do it..
Who's saying it will? The question is will it outsell PS2, not will it be in the exact same situation as the PS2.
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I'd question your opinion that a game like Mario and Sonic: Olympic Games, isn't a traditional third party game. Yes its full of mini games, that's the nature of the olympics after all. But would you also say that something like Beijing 2008 for 360 isn't a traditional game?
What?.. if I hadn't seen my quote in your post I'd have thought you were replying to someone else
Actually, I had asked about big sellers minus any minigame collections. I'm not looking to compare the list to 360 sales or any such thing, I was just curious about something else.
I know that obonicus, which is why assens post is so confusing. I'm not sure why he brought 360 in to it, or why he seems so defensive about a mere list of games.
By the way, the reason I only posted million sellers is because that's the quickest example I could post for you. It would have taken much longer to post every game that had sold well. Then there would no doubt be arguments from certain people on what constitutes selling well..
If you have a certain cut off point of sales you're interested in looking at I can post a bigger list for you.
By the way, the reason I only posted million sellers is because that's the quickest example I could post for you. It would have taken much longer to post every game that had sold well. Then there would no doubt be arguments from certain people on what constitutes selling well..
If you have a certain cut off point of sales you're interested in looking at I can post a bigger list for you.
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Res Evil 4 was also a port with new controls that had already been released on GameCube and PS2. A lower price was only right.
DeadlyNinja
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http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11844230&postcount=184
So, let say Gears of War ended up on Wii. And you'd like to use a Mii in that game or something?
Capcom can spend 20 million advertising Lost Galaxy for the 360, but Nintendo should flip the bill to advertise Zack and Wiki?
So, let say Gears of War ended up on Wii. And you'd like to use a Mii in that game or something?
Capcom can spend 20 million advertising Lost Galaxy for the 360, but Nintendo should flip the bill to advertise Zack and Wiki?
If Capcom spent 20 million advertising some game named "Lost Galaxy" for the 360 they did so very quietly, because I certainly never heard of it.
i was just pointing out the fact . Would res 4 have sold as well at the normal price of $50 bucks .
also i think carnival games was also $30 bucks .
Going to go out on a limb here and say the Sonic and Mario olympic game will be counted as a regular game with its various mini games. Afterall, the mini games in there are representative of a larger game as a whole. Why shouldn't minigame games be counted? It's just an absolutely absurd criteria for that. If you compare it to the 360's million selling games then please take out all first person shooters.
No, because this isn't about moronic sales comparisons. It's about whether the Wii will become this generation's PS2. Sales-wise I don't think there's any doubt, but there's resistance among developers to target their big franchises at the Wii. Will this change?
Some already speculate that it's changing in Japan, though I haven't really seen hard evidence indicating that (we'll see, if say, KH3 is announced for the Wii). In the west, though, there is definitely resistance. At some point, though, if it does become the next PS2, I can't imagine publishers won't concede. But for it to become the PS2, it has to prove it can sell 'core' games. And minigames aren't core games.
All right. We will not compare sales from one machine to another.
What do you mean by core game? And why wouldn't a platform such as Wii not count minigames (or one entire game that is a collection of minigames) as a core title? These titles seems to do pretty well on the machine and the sales seem to back it up a little bit. It's not Nintendo's fault that many other 3rd party devs are failing to capitalize on that. Maybe what a "core" game is is shifting in terms of what type of game can be considered.
I'd imagine a lot of franchises might not work so well on the Wii without seriously overhauling the gameplay. I'm sure some devs are working on it, but what if thee franchises sell poorly on the Wii because they don't provide the type of experience that a Wii gamer is looking for?
Nintendo set out for making an innovative machine and innovative software for its machine. Minigames are apparently part of those "core" games.
What do you mean by core game? And why wouldn't a platform such as Wii not count minigames (or one entire game that is a collection of minigames) as a core title? These titles seems to do pretty well on the machine and the sales seem to back it up a little bit. It's not Nintendo's fault that many other 3rd party devs are failing to capitalize on that. Maybe what a "core" game is is shifting in terms of what type of game can be considered.
I'd imagine a lot of franchises might not work so well on the Wii without seriously overhauling the gameplay. I'm sure some devs are working on it, but what if thee franchises sell poorly on the Wii because they don't provide the type of experience that a Wii gamer is looking for?
Nintendo set out for making an innovative machine and innovative software for its machine. Minigames are apparently part of those "core" games.
I never even mentioned the 360 once
The list of 360 million sellers would be needed to refute the point made earlier in this thread (not by you) that the Wii has no competition.
My point is that the success of the PS2 can't be replicated without achieving the PS2's standing with developers.
That sort of excludes it from being 'the next ps2'. It would need to be able to support all genres wouldn't it?
While I think the Wii might have it in it to reach as many people as the ps2 did (assuming it drops price significantly over the next few years), it might have trouble reaching the same level of devotion in terms of titles. Racing games, sports franchises, fps and rpgs, developers aren't going to redefine these titles for the wii, they're probably more likely to move to their audience on another platform. You can make the argument that these 3rd party titles haven't sold particularly well on wii, because they have been bad, but that hasn't stopped bad games from selling on other platforms.
The wii is always going to have the limitation that its easier to port down.
While I think the Wii might have it in it to reach as many people as the ps2 did (assuming it drops price significantly over the next few years), it might have trouble reaching the same level of devotion in terms of titles. Racing games, sports franchises, fps and rpgs, developers aren't going to redefine these titles for the wii, they're probably more likely to move to their audience on another platform. You can make the argument that these 3rd party titles haven't sold particularly well on wii, because they have been bad, but that hasn't stopped bad games from selling on other platforms.
The wii is always going to have the limitation that its easier to port down.
I think the point with the library is where are things like Final Fantasy/Japanese RPG, and Fighter Game, and Realistic Racer Game? As a gaming platform, Wii seems to have attracted only a subset of genres so far, bar a few rare exceptions. This is in contrast to PS2 which had everything. But I don't know what that really means. In answer to the original question 'what if Wii outsells Ps2...' the answer is 'Nintendo will have an ocean-liner-full of money'. It's not going to change the entire industry to reduce the types of games available, or somesuch. As long as developers can make a good living from creating their games on some platform or other, they'll do so. The only real affect on the industry is that there'll be a lot more consoles/gamers out there. XB360 and PS3 combined sales will likely be tens of millions up on where XB and GC were last gen by comparison to the leader.
The Wii's biggest problem is that they're not. Publishers know minigames can sell, even third party ones, and that encourages publishers to release only a very narrow range of game types. And it's a vicious cycle; publishers aren't encouraged to release more traditional, big-budget games, particularly in the West, and because traditional, big-budget games aren't released, the Wii can't prove whether it can or can't sell these titles. The PS3/360, meanwhile, have proven that though they don't dominate the market the way the Wii does, they certainly can sell these games.
Fine, whatever. By 'core' game I mean established game-types and franchises. If core game shifts to mean 'minigame collection', that hardly means RE6 or MGS5 or FFXIV etc. etc. will be developed primarily on the Wii, as was the case for the PS2 last-gen. (Okay, RE may be a bad example.)
The Wii also has traditional input methods; even the big-budget Nintendo franchises take advantage of these, so it's not like every single game must have waggle.
No one knows what a Wii gamer is. Depending on who you ask, the Wii gamer demographic consists mainly of: grandma and grandpa, the more 'casual' PS2 owners migrating from last-gen or hardcore gamers. If anyone knew who's buying those 30 million consoles, they'd be rich.Publishers seem to be betting on the 'mom and dad' demographic, if only because Nintendo seems to be focusing on them too.
That goes against what other Wii owners are claiming: that traditional games are alive and well, as seen by the sales of games of Nintendo's main franchises. The people buying these games are likely not the same ones buying Carnival games, for instance. And they're the ones most interested in the big franchises coming to the Wii. Mom and Dad gamer, if that demographic really exists, probably doesn't care a whit whether CoD6 has the Wii as its lead platform.
DeadlyNinja
Veteran
Would Forbes be a reliable source for you?
http://members.forbes.com/global/2007/0212/022.html?partner=yahoomag
Wrong. The only one that sold was Midway's Party games and Raving Rabbids. Most of them were complete flops. Most of Ubi Soft's own casual games suffered a huge lost. Check their recent earnings statement.
It's not wrong; I'm talking about what publishers know, and what publishers are doing. I don't have an opinion/theory on this. Don't try and convince me, convince them. They're the ones releasing crappy minigames and 'casual' games while directing their big-budget titles at the PS3/360.
Miyamoto said in an interview a while back that he views Miis as being as much a Nintendo character/branding as Mario, so they're not going to do anything to dilute the brand or ruin its image. If I recall correctly, he said that 3rd parties have to go through the same process to include Miis as they would to include Mario.
Carnival Games is another very successful minigame collection.
There are, altogether, more XB360s and PS3s than Wiis. A cross-platform PS360 title has a larger install base to sell to than a Wii exclusive. Wii may well take >50% of the total market over the next years, but at this point in time it's not like PS2 versus GC where the PS2 market was several times the size of GC or XB, and GC+XB weren't sharing libraries in the same way XB360 and PS3 are.
