How can Nintendo coax 3rd party developers to the Wii?

[midorigreenwood]

The way Wii Music turned out, I suspect no one understands the Wii's market, including Nintendo. EA is actually trying pretty hard to get the Wii demographic, but the immediate reaction to something like 'All Play' is "LAZY!"

Wiimusic is actually turning out to be a sleeper hit (considering the hatred its getting on the internet)...... it may not sell 20-30 million copies like Mario Kart.....but it'll probably get to the 4-5 million mark.

IMO, its a pretty hardcore game to play well..and the gui is alittle unwieldly...but there is definitely a market out there for classical music and other more mainstream music genres and I hope Nintendo releases another one. (the conductor game definitely needs wii motion plus)

 

[obonicus]

Wiimusic is actually turning out to be a sleeper hit (considering the hatred its getting on the internet)...... it may not sell 20-30 million copies like Mario Kart.....but it'll probably get to the 4-5 million mark.

Damage-control aside, it was marketed as Nintendo's big holiday release. As soon as Nintendo realized it wasn't, the focus shifted to Animal Crossing. Make no mistake: Nintendo expected Wii Music to be the next Wii Sports. They missed the mark by a broad margin; the next Wii * game is sports resort, which is just Wii Sports with a new peripheral, so that's playing it safe.

IMO, its a pretty hardcore game to play well..and the gui is alittle unwieldly...but there is definitely a market out there for classical music and other more mainstream music genres and I hope Nintendo releases another one. (the conductor game definitely needs wii motion plus)

This is what I'm saying. Hardcore or ultra-casual, Nintendo missed the mark. They thought the Wii crowd would go for Wii Music, and they didn't. I think Nintendo believed their own hype: that anything with the Wii * name on it would sell. And that why I suspect Nintendo also doesn't understand the new demographic either. But that's okay; no one else does either.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Nintendo sold Gamecubes for 99$ few years back and probably not losing money on them. While not the same Wii does not really have much more in it...

Basically I think it's crazy to assume that Nintendo wouldn't have benefitted from maturing manufacturing among other things.

I think your first point explains the limit in savings possible. What would a GC cost to make now? Wii will cost about the same, give or a take a dozen bucks, maybe a bit more for the controllers. Thuis, there's very little room to make more savings. What this points to is huge profit margins, and inaccurate analysis by the so-called analyst.

[modhat]I've moved the game originality talk to a new thread. this thread is having a hard time staying on topic. I fear the original question was way too broad.[/modhat]

 

[midorigreenwood]

Damage-control aside, it was marketed as Nintendo's big holiday release. As soon as Nintendo realized it wasn't, the focus shifted to Animal Crossing. Make no mistake: Nintendo expected Wii Music to be the next Wii Sports. They missed the mark by a broad margin; the next Wii * game is sports resort, which is just Wii Sports with a new peripheral, so that's playing it safe.

A multi-million seller is a failure now? >,>

No doubt Nintendo is playing it safe......but imo they only had two games in Wii Music and Animal Crossing for their holiday releases because they didn't want to detract from their evergreen money spinners - Wiifit and Mario Kart

These two games are going to set some spectacular records when its over and done with.

Thats why reggie was being such an arsehole by dragging his feet with the release of hardcore games like Disaster - Day of Crisis and Fatal Frame etc to the American market (Disaster has basically been sent to die in Europe with no advertising).

 

[obonicus]

A multi-million seller is a failure now? >,>

Are you posting from the future? It's not multi-million yet. I think even multi-million is too generous, but that's off-topic.

No doubt Nintendo is playing it safe......but imo they only had two games in Wii Music and Animal Crossing for their holiday releases because they didn't want to detract from their evergreen money spinners - Wiifit and Mario Kart

Well, essentially yes. They didn't because they don't have to. But the point is that they would have liked Wii Music to be a blockbuster. It's not even close.

Thats why reggie was being such an arsehole by dragging his feet with the release of hardcore games like Disaster - Day of Crisis and Fatal Frame etc to the American market (Disaster has basically been sent to die in Europe with no advertising).

That makes no sense. These games don't compete with Mario Kart or Wii Fit. They didn't release games because they don't have to. They sold 800k Wiis in a week with hardly anything new out. They did it because they thought they didn't have to, and though that these upscale games wouldn't sell, because they're guessing that the audience just isn't there. And, despite what GAF thinks, I believe they're right.

 

[midorigreenwood]

Are you posting from the future? It's not multi-million yet. I think even multi-million is too generous, but that's off-topic.

kinda, its a prediction taking to account that it seems to have some legs on the european charts and vgchartz estimates

That makes no sense. These games don't compete with Mario Kart or Wii Fit. They didn't release games because they don't have to. They sold 800k Wiis in a week with hardly anything new out. They did it because they thought they didn't have to, and though that these upscale games wouldn't sell, because they're guessing that the audience just isn't there. And, despite what GAF thinks, I believe they're right.

it competes for advertising dollars and marketing effort.

Look what happened to Mirror's edge in the flood of HD consoles AAA titles

Nintendo's plan imo, is to focus marketing on the four games mentioned because they will sell big and anything else will just get lost in the rush.


ps: hmmm.... forgot that B3d is more strict on staying on topic... so I'll probably leave it at that for this particular line of argument (lest another thread be made )

 

[Cheezdoodles]

Look what happened to Mirror's edge in the flood of HD consoles AAA titles

ME not selling particularly great is more a combination of it being a 6 hours singleplayer game only with not particularly great review scores.

 

[obonicus]

ME not selling particularly great is more a combination of it being a 6 hours singleplayer game only with not particularly great review scores.

Not enough media coverage, as well, because Assassin's Creed had those problems but still was one of the best-selling titles of 2007.

 

[fearsomepirate]

Damage-control aside, it was marketed as Nintendo's big holiday release. As soon as Nintendo realized it wasn't, the focus shifted to Animal Crossing.

Brain Training did poorly in its first week as well. Wii Music isn't going for the traditional market, the traditional software cycle, and therefore the traditional advertising market.

"Upmarket" right now is basically defined by complex controls and big cinematics, neither of which are really strong points on the Wii.

 

[obonicus]

Brain Training did poorly in its first week as well. Wii Music isn't going for the traditional market, the traditional software cycle, and therefore the traditional advertising market.

And Wii Fit was?

 

[midorigreenwood]

Its obvious that Nintendo's reluctance to flood the market with more first party games is because of the crazy success they're having with old games.

Has there ever been a time in history where a game sells better many months later rather than at launch? I just shake my head in disbelief when I hear annecdotal evidence that Wiifit and Mario Kart are still getting sold out.

They spent 2 years investing in a cinematic game like Disaster (I'm not saying that its a AAA quality title....but its a unique title for the Wii) and they don't even bother to advertise it and get back their investment?

It is strange stuff indeed.......because how can there not be a market for an action game set during a major natural disaster?

There are numerous Hollywood disaster movies released every few years. All it'll take is a proper marketing campaign to let the average consumer know that the game even exists.

A 3rd party publisher like EA's strategy is the "shotgun" approach. They will invest in maybe 10 games for the Wii...... a mixture of casual shovelware and perhaps a few unique titles that have potential and release it on the market with minimal marketing to target the Wii audience and hope that one or two titles magically finds success.

Why not instead invest in 5 games and focus a proper marketing campaign on those titles?

A game like Boom Blox would be a perfect case study

It is a unique game
It has critical acclaim
It is perfect for the Wii audience (one of the few games I can play with my parents)

but.... it has the success of a niche title.....500k - 1million prob. It makes me go WTF?

From all reports, they focused marketing for a short period of time on the kiddie demographic like on the Nickolodean channel. IMO, the bulk of their sales are from hardcore gamers who heard all the great things about it on media like the 1up Show.

Imagine if it had the backing of the Nintendo marketing machine behind it.

 

[Nano]

Marketing.

They do a good job with casual game marketing (too good a job even), but are very lacking when it comes to marketing blockbusters and hardcore games despite the fact they develop them (i.e. MP3, Disaster). This is putting off developers from making such titles as they think they won't sell (Gamecube all over again in that department, but worse). The console is so successful, but its a shame titles like The Conduit will come by once in a blue moon. The system isn't taken seriously enough when it comes to deep game experiences.

 

[expletive]

Not enough media coverage, as well, because Assassin's Creed had those problems but still was one of the best-selling titles of 2007.

Well to be fair, Assassin's creed was about 12 hours. The same 2 hours repeated 6 times, but 12 hours nonetheless!

 

[Teasy]

At the end of the day Wii has a huge user base already and its up to third parties to reach those people and get them to buy their games. If a third party could manage to convert the section of Wii's userbase that previously never played standard games into gamers they'd not only make massive profits but also gain tens of millions of fans who's first gaming experience was one of there games! Its like the wild west for game publishers, undiscovered territory It might be hard, it might take many efforts but just think what an opportunity that is, once in a lifetime for most devs/publishers. If that's not enough to convince third parties to make the effort then they deserve to fail.

 

[obonicus]

At the end of the day Wii has a huge user base already and its up to third parties to reach those people and get them to buy their games. If a third party could manage to convert the section of Wii's userbase that previously never played standard games into gamers they'd not only make massive profits but also gain tens of millions of fans who's first gaming experience was one of there games! Its like the wild west for game publishers, undiscovered territory It might be hard, it might take many efforts but just think what an opportunity that is, once in a lifetime for most devs/publishers. If that's not enough to convince third parties to make the effort then they deserve to fail.

Or they can stick to the people who want to play and buy games, and play it safe. Trying new things hasn't worked too well on the Wii. Trying old things hasn't worked too well. All that's left really is to try what 'hardcore' Wii owners keep clamoring for, which is to bring the main installment of big franchises to the Wii, which is a huge gamble since publishers don't even know who's buying the Wii. Even Nintendo is playing it excessively safe and has held back from pushing new IP on the Wii.

 

[Teasy]

Of course, the obvious choice for most businesses today is play it safe. Which is a pity since playing it safe usually gets you nowhere.

 

[midorigreenwood]

Amen Teasy..... in a perfect world that is exactly what would happen....

thats why I describe the majority of 3rd Party's reaction to the Wii as one of a rape victim :/

they were lapsy daisily walking along thinking that this generation would be a repeat of the last and suddenly out of nowhere the evil trench coat wearing Wii jumps out of the bushes and monstered their industry >,>

It is getting beyond ridiculous!!!

Ubisoft seems to be the most successful third party publisher who has executed a decent strategy.

Red Steel was a million seller (yes it was scandalously buggy but they actually had a game out at launch unlike others so from a financial point of view it was a great success)

They've built up the Raving Rabbid Rayman franchise to be a modest cash cow

Shaun White Snowboarding has decent legs and is selling better than its HD counterparts.....should be a million plus seller.

Even We Ski by Namco which rode the coattails of Wiifit sold 60k at the US launch and was never seen again until it was announced that it broke the million sale mark.

Wii games may not have spectacular launches like Gears of War....but the console is selling a huge amount ever month....and these new owners need something to buy.

There is potential for smart companies to make some serious dough

 

[midorigreenwood]

Even Nintendo is playing it excessively safe and has held back from pushing new IP on the Wii.

True (although I would still argue that Wii music was a gamble which is paying off).

but they didn't need to gamble.

they have really executed a perfect strategy this christmas.

4 games Wiifit Mario Kart, Animal Crossing and Wii Music

all marketed to hell and all selling really well

They have left huge holes for 3rd parties to take advantage of.

hopefully christmas 2009 won't be as disappointing as 2008

 

[obonicus]

They have left huge holes for 3rd parties to take advantage of.

For what market? Third parties have tested the waters, nothing has caught on like 'Game party' or 'Carnival Games'. Whenever they do, we hear the excuse 'should've been marketed better', 'should have been a better effort'. Nevermind that 'just ok' games still do better on the PS360 -- the assumption seems to be that the mass of the 'new market' or the 'casual segment of the PS2 market' (whatever your theory to the Wii userbase is) is much more demanding than the 'core' gamers. Publishers can't win until they move a main franchise to the Wii. But why should they? If they do that they can't up-port to the HD systems and they know there's a market for their game there.

Which is why Nintendo is the one that has to step it up. It isn't enough for Mario to sell. Mario's bigger than anything else -- big enough to make a SEGA game the top third party title on the Wii. WL: Shake It! didn't do that great, supposedly it's a niche title now. Then make something else, have them show the third parties that there's a market for fresh IP on the Wii, besides the usual cadre of Nintendo fans.

 

[midorigreenwood]

they're only touching their tippy toes onto the water........ it has been pretty much half arsed.

Like I said in other threads....... its all to do with marketing to the Wii audience.

how can a freaking resident evil 4 port sell one million copies and there be no market for third parties to take advantage of?

edit: vgchartz estimates say that RE4 Wii is approaching 2 million sales.

Nintendo has shown the way...... fewer games marketed to hell is more succesful than the shotgun approach of publishers like EA.