How can Nintendo coax 3rd party developers to the Wii?

A combination of both due to the types of software that are the blockbusters on the Wii and DS. Without recruiting ninjas to hide out at walmart to spy on unsuspecting shoppers its hard to be more specific than that but this quote straight from Nintendo's mouth...

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/markets/japan/article2629649.ece



As the same types of software are selling throughout the world, you can make the assumption that similar demographics are buying the console in the west too. I don't think even the PS2 can boast of having 50% of owners being female or attracting older adults although there was a strong following of the singstar series in Europe.

No, they can't. How does that help your initial argument? If you want 3rd party publishers to pander to women, you have that already. You have multiple iterations of 'weight loss coaches', many of them far better at the 'fitness' thing than Wii Fit itself. You have titles like Imagine Party Babyz. Who do you think that's aimed at?


I've already shown that a cheap port of RE4 Wii can sell nearly as well as the GCN and the PS2. There are plenty of other non-shovelware games with decent sales that suggest there is a market for more complicated games.

Noone will truly know until they properly test the market but if you were a betting man you would assume that you could find a profitable niche from such a massive install base...... especially considering that the HD consoles are so flooded with these types of titles and the Wii so barren.

But you're not talking about a niche! You want full support from 3rd party publishers. But you yourself argue that the market to the Wii is not like the market for other systems. So should 3rd party publishers retool their developers, throw away all the experience they've developed making 'core games'? Should 2K push 2K Boston to start making interactive fiction? I'm not sure what you're asking for, here. Are you looking for top-tier from 3rd party developers or do you want them to cater to this new market. They're already doing the latter, they don't need further encouragement.



Did anyone think that a dog game and a pseudo-scientific collection of brain teasers would be amongst the biggest blockbusters in videogames?

obviously developers didn't until Nintendo showed the way and now there are a multitude of clones struggling to find recognition.

Its like the start of a gold rush....... you can try to find a new area for yourself that hasn't been over mined and test it out....if it works.....you hit jackpot....you have captured a new audience all to yourself.

or you can let Nintendo suck your Milkshake with their ginormous straw :)

Sure. Or you can go for more conventional games targeted at the multi-million (and growing) fanbase that you know enjoys such things. I'm an advocate for cheaper HD games; I'm extremely forgiving when it comes to games that aren't polished but are still fun.

The romance genre targeting women are a proven financial winner in other mediums like literature and movies......theres no reason why it can't be the same with videogames.

Also, yes... no reason why you couldn't have a version on the DS too...especially for building recognition of your new franchise but I was hypothesing a way for developers/publishers to target people buying wiifit rather than just making a exercise game ripoff.

Gravitation, a shounen-ai (boy love for lack of a better translation) manga/anime has a pretty big following in the West.

Also Harlequinn, one of the gorillas of the romance literature industry has published several hundred manga versions of their bodice rippers in the japanese market.

It seems that romance and love transcends cultural borders.


Why would women play these fiction games on a CONSOLE, rather than just reading the book itself? On the DS it makes some sense, but playing a bodice-ripper on a TV? Well, I believe MMV is bringing a few 'adventure' games over to the US. Maybe they'll do tremendously well and western 3rd parties will listen, but if I were the betting sort I'd put money on it not being the case.


but its still a recognisable brand and considering that sales have gone backwards since the transition to the HD consoles, it would suggest that the investment would have been better spent elsewhere.

obviously its not as huge as mario kart......yet...... but the philosophy of both games are similar and customers are not going to know that unless you tell them.

Burnout will never, ever be as big as Mario Kart.

A publisher like EA should be consolidating their brands rather than wasting money making new ones.

Don't worry, they'll do that next year. We won't be seeing much new IP from EA, they're going to develop sequels to the new IP they introduced this year. I know I'm certainly thrilled by the prospect.
 
Obonicus, if all your arguments were true, then Nintendo's success with Wii is a bizarre fluke that has nothing to do with any kind of strategy or business practice. According to you, nothing will work at all, no one can have any success, and the vast market simply can't be exploited. I somehow doubt this is the case. The rest of the publishers ignoring a vast, untapped market is precisely why Nintendo is enjoying such ludicrous success. Instead of proclaiming that it is both impossible and unwise to go after the market (in which case Nintendo must be selling consoles based on magic and devilry), perhaps you could come up with a better solution, since you think no one else's suggestions have any potential of working.
Or you can go for more conventional games targeted at the multi-million (and growing) fanbase that you know enjoys such things.
Really? Are there really more people playing cinematic/blood-n-guts games than there were a few years ago? Nintendo discovered a shrinking fan base in Japan. I'd be surprised if the 360 and PS3 are really drawing in lots of new consumers. The gradually increasing age of the fan base suggests they are not, but I could be wrong. Something else:
But you're not talking about a niche! You want full support from 3rd party publishers.
HD gaming is the niche. The Wii and DS make up the mainstream. Gaming publishers by and large don't understand this, because they're too stuck on the old definition of the market. They think of the Wii, as RancidLunchmeat does, as a stupid console for stupid games that stupid people buy. So when 3rd parties make a Wii game, it's usually crap put together by their lowest-tier team. A smart publisher, i.e. one that wants to make money, should be trying to figure out how to sell games to these people instead of proclaiming it a fad, whining that Nintendo has an unfair advantage, declaring these people to not be "real" gamers, etc.

Here's an interesting question: Is the HD market profitable overall? I mean if you add up everything that everyone spends on making HD games, it is more or less than total consumer spending? I don't know. I suspect that, judging by the tables I've seen on publisher profits, it's overall unprofitable. That means that publishers are consuming too many resources, which in this industry translates into them making too many games, meaning that there will have to be an industry contraction in terms of how many publishers there are and/or how many games they produce.
 
Obonicus, if all your arguments were true, then Nintendo's success with Wii is a bizarre fluke that has nothing to do with any kind of strategy or business practice.

Beautiful attempt at a strawman. But that's your modus operandi on these boards. What's next, to again claim that games can either be Wii Fit or Gears of War, and that moms would never want the latter?

According to you, nothing will work at all, no one can have any success, and the vast market simply can't be exploited. I somehow doubt this is the case. The rest of the publishers ignoring a vast, untapped market is precisely why Nintendo is enjoying such ludicrous success. Instead of proclaiming that it is both impossible and unwise to go after the market (in which case Nintendo must be selling consoles based on magic and devilry), perhaps you could come up with a better solution, since you think no one else's suggestions have any potential of working.

I'm saying Nintendo has to prove that the market that midori wants (supposing midori really knows what they want, which I currently doubt) exists on the Wii. Could a lucky third party make a mint off the Wii? Sure. Could they also fail spectacularly? Yep. Have they? Well, depends on who you ask. If you ask the Wii fan, what you'll get is how the Wii is underappreciated and none of their efforts are worthwhile. So clearly, when you establish every single third party effort that isn't a major franchise directed directly at the Wii is a failure port, then yeah, they all deserve to fail.

Really? Are there really more people playing cinematic/blood-n-guts games than there were a few years ago? Nintendo discovered a shrinking fan base in Japan. I'd be surprised if the 360 and PS3 are really drawing in lots of new consumers. The gradually increasing age of the fan base suggests they are not, but I could be wrong. Something else:

Nintendo discovered a new fanbase in Japan. Japan's a terrible example because in Japan no consoles do well and more than one serious attempt has failed terribly -- the US is slightly better, thankfully. We don't know who's buying the WIi, and that's my main point. Nintendo has to make a point as to their userbase. But publishers do know who's buying the other consoles.


HD gaming is the niche. The Wii and DS make up the mainstream. Gaming publishers by and large don't understand this, because they're too stuck on the old definition of the market. They think of the Wii, as RancidLunchmeat does, as a stupid console for stupid games that stupid people buy. So when 3rd parties make a Wii game, it's usually crap put together by their lowest-tier team. A smart publisher, i.e. one that wants to make money, should be trying to figure out how to sell games to these people instead of proclaiming it a fad, whining that Nintendo has an unfair advantage, declaring these people to not be "real" gamers, etc.

Fine, so it's niche. I'd love it if you read the whole thread before jumping in like this, because what midori wants isn't 'mainstream' games like Wii Fit and 'Wii Sports'. They want the other games, the ones that third party publishers aren't bringing to the Wii. But the example they use is of interactive novels, which are hardly that sort of game. No one's saying that 3rd parties can't make money on the Wii. A lot do, they even make lots of money. It's just not with games any of us want to play. Midori supposedly was asking how you could change that. Again, the onus is not on the 3rd party, it's on Nintendo. Third parties already have platforms for upscale games.

Here's an interesting question: Is the HD market profitable overall? I mean if you add up everything that everyone spends on making HD games, it is more or less than total consumer spending? I don't know. I suspect that, judging by the tables I've seen on publisher profits, it's overall unprofitable. That means that publishers are consuming too many resources, which in this industry translates into them making too many games, meaning that there will have to be an industry contraction in terms of how many publishers there are and/or how many games they produce.

And since we're guessing, since they're still announcing HD games, that there's profit in it. I expect that fanboy obsession with million-sellers is simply wrong. The margins are higher certainly. But since neither of us knows what we're talking about how about we leave this speculation out of it?
 
No, they can't. How does that help your initial argument?

My argument is that the Wii has capture not just a narrow demographic like the HD consoles but a whole hodgepodge of different people of different ages and sexes.

If you want to make a gardening simulator..... you could probably find enough people to buy your game if marketed properly.

Same deal with classical or contemporary music version of the beatmania style genre

There are probably even a sizeable percentage of core gamers who own a Wii as their secondary console from traditional Nintendo fans to people using it as a party machine to play social games with friends. There is annecdotal evidence that the console is popular with college kids looking for quick and easy party enjoyment.

Thats why I argue that there could even be a market for first person shooters if the games are differentiated enough from their HD console counterparts to make it unique. You could take advantage of the Wii's great pointer function or even implement the dying breed of splitscreen multiplayer and reliving the spirit of legendary games like Goldeneye.

If you want 3rd party publishers to pander to women, you have that already. You have multiple iterations of 'weight loss coaches', many of them far better at the 'fitness' thing than Wii Fit itself. You have titles like Imagine Party Babyz. Who do you think that's aimed at?

If you had read my posts properly you would have found that I'm definitely arguing against publisher simply just ripping off successful Nintendo games...you might have modest short term success but eventually it just leads to market saturation as everyone tries to do the same thing.

hence the suggestion of developing new software ideas like making interactive fiction catering to the Wiifit consumers. Instead of complaining that they can't compete with Nintendo.....try working out what other types of games would appeal to their customers and develop a focused strategy to market the software to them.

So should 3rd party publishers retool their developers, throw away all the experience they've developed making 'core games'? Should 2K push 2K Boston to start making interactive fiction? I'm not sure what you're asking for, here. Are you looking for top-tier from 3rd party developers or do you want them to cater to this new market. They're already doing the latter, they don't need further encouragement.

Well, if you were designing a game catering to women like an interactive novel......would you hire EPIC to develop your title?

Obviously you would headhunt specific types of people and create a new team to work on your project. Maybe a music video designer/director and a novellist to work out the visual and story elements. There would probably be an emphasis on visual and sound artists rather than just talented programmers.


Sure. Or you can go for more conventional games targeted at the multi-million (and growing) fanbase that you know enjoys such things. I'm an advocate for cheaper HD games; I'm extremely forgiving when it comes to games that aren't polished but are still fun.

That market is wayyyyyyy too flooded with developers and expensive games. Unless you have a bankable franchise like COD or GOW, you are really getting diminishing returns from your investment in comparison to previous generations.

Anyways its getting harder to raise capital so it'll be harder to justify expensive gambles to banks and venture capitalists unless you can show them how your game will be profitable in this market.


Why would women play these fiction games on a CONSOLE, rather than just reading the book itself? On the DS it makes some sense, but playing a bodice-ripper on a TV?

Obviously you would have to offer an experience that you can't just get from a book.

Why do some people prefer reading magazines or tabloids over books or newspaper?

Its easier to digest, and there is the enjoyment that can be appreciated from the visually stimulating elements..

Maybe Phoenix wright wasn't really the best example of the genre because it is kinda out-dated (they were mainly ports from the Gameboy Advance iirc).

Titles like Chunsoft's Imabikisou on the PS3/Wii has shown how the larger storage of home consoles and the bigger display screen can be used to create a sensually stimulating atmosphere using striking photographs, animations, sound effects and voice acting.

If I was making this for the Wii, I would probably try to work out how you could bring a social experience to the software by designing and marketing the interactive story to played with a family or a group of friends. Perhaps implement a democratic "Buzz gameshow" multiplayer element where each player would press a button to choose which direction the story will go in and the majority wins out.

Maybe have different versions of the game where each title would have different collectable items or character or have different perspectives of the main story. This would encourage a Wii style "book club" where each person would buy a diferent version of the game and they could link up online and swap items and characters to unlock a different ending or a different perspective in their game.

Moneyhatting Oprah to flog it on her show and magazines would probably be an astute financial decision.

Anyways this is just me having a quick brainstorm of possible ideas so sue me if they sound stupid >,>

Burnout will never, ever be as big as Mario Kart.

Maybe not new Mario kart (she is abit of a whore) but they should be aiming for the numbers of old mariokart ie: 5-7 million units in sales. Burnout imo is the premier semi-realistic arcade racer in videogaming and it has better potential than just being a niche title.
 
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The rest of the publishers ignoring a vast, untapped market is precisely why Nintendo is enjoying such ludicrous success. Instead of proclaiming that it is both impossible and unwise to go after the market (in which case Nintendo must be selling consoles based on magic and devilry), perhaps you could come up with a better solution, since you think no one else's suggestions have any potential of working.

HD gaming is the niche. The Wii and DS make up the mainstream. Gaming publishers by and large don't understand this, because they're too stuck on the old definition of the market. They think of the Wii, as RancidLunchmeat does, as a stupid console for stupid games that stupid people buy. So when 3rd parties make a Wii game, it's usually crap put together by their lowest-tier team. A smart publisher, i.e. one that wants to make money, should be trying to figure out how to sell games to these people instead of proclaiming it a fad, whining that Nintendo has an unfair advantage, declaring these people to not be "real" gamers, etc.

Here's an interesting question: Is the HD market profitable overall? I mean if you add up everything that everyone spends on making HD games, it is more or less than total consumer spending? I don't know. I suspect that, judging by the tables I've seen on publisher profits, it's overall unprofitable. That means that publishers are consuming too many resources, which in this industry translates into them making too many games, meaning that there will have to be an industry contraction in terms of how many publishers there are and/or how many games they produce.

I couldn't have put it better myself

BTW there is no reason that game that is targeted at the expanded market couldn't also be eaten up by core gamers.

That imo is probably the true "devilry" of the appeal of most Nintendo games....... they can be appreciated by people of all ages, sexes and gaming ability.

Thats why I get an erection hoping that a game like Scribblenauts on the DS which has appeal to casual and core gamers alike will live up to the hype.

It appeals to my gaming side and my capitalistic streak of imagining people hoarding piles of money :)
 
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