How can Nintendo coax 3rd party developers to the Wii?

[obonicus]

how can a freaking resident evil 4 remake sell one million copies and there be no market for third parties to take advantage of?

How come nothing else has even come close? Who bought that game, exactly? Was it the 'new market' or was it the same people who owned a gamecube?

Did any other GC ports do that well? Any other PS2 ports? Clearly there is a market. Is it bigger than the PS360's? It's the problem with the fractured market.

Nintendo has shown the way...... fewer games marketed to hell is more succesful than the shotgun approach of publishers like EA.

Nintendo hasn't shown a damned thing. What is the way? Release 'evergreen' games? Release multi-million sellers? Release Mario games? Even Nintendo doesn't have a 100% hit ratio.

 

[midorigreenwood]

yes for sure Nintendo has shown the way.

why is Mario Kart Wii selling better at Christmas than 7-8 months ago at launch?

Why is it going to be the best selling game of the year beating out GTA4 (ps3 and x360 combined)

it is because Nintendo understands their audience and advertises the game all day every day for the last 7-8 months.

 

[obonicus]

yes for sure Nintendo has shown the way.

why is Mario Kart Wii selling better at Christmas than 7-8 months ago at launch?

Why is it going to be the best selling game of the year beating out GTA4 (ps3 and x360 combined)

it is because Nintendo understands their audience and advertises the game all day every day for the last 7-8 months.

It's also Mario. Mario is the biggest IP there is, nothing else comes close. Using Nintendo's Mario games as an example doesn't work. Use Wii Fit instead; that's new IP that is selling gangbusters, and will probably surpass everything else except maybe Wii Play. But guess what? Publishers are already trying that route. They don't have a Mario to sell Wii owners. What about other Wii games? What about Wario Land: Shake It? How did Metroid Prime 3 do, is that still selling hugely? Super Mario Galaxy? Brawl?

 

[midorigreenwood]

I'll use vgchartz estimates...... you can say the site is bullshit....

but imo, they're "in the ballpark" (and they update their numbers if wrong when better sources like financial reports are released) so they serve their purpose for a forum debate.

Metroid Prime 3 - 1.47 million
Mario Galaxy - 7.73 million
Zelda Twilight princess - 5.04 million (1.56 million for gamecube version)
Mario Kart Wii - 12.93 million
Wiifit - 13.33 million
Animal Crossing - 1.67 million
Wiimusic - 1.84 million
Wario Shake it - 0.43 million
Mario Super Sluggers - 0.7 million
Mario Strikers Charged - 1.85 million
Batallion Wars 2 - 0.18 million
Disaster Day of Crisis - 0.03 million (not released yet in US but still lol.... )
Link Crossbow Training - 2.63 million
Mario Party 8 - 5.92 million
Warioware Smooth moves - 2.42 million
Fire Emblem Radiant Dawn - 0.58 million

A simplistic analysis would be to say....oh noes.... mario sells best because its mario.....

but why does Mario Kart Wii sell twice as good as mario galaxy when it is far out the best game on the console?

imo....... Nintendo uses a cost/benefit analysis when allocating their marketing budget....

they sure as hell can't market every single game that they make the same way....because eventually the cost of advertising will outweigh any extra sales....

thats why the focus was on Mario Kart and Wiifit for most of the year.....and then 2 new games Wii music and Animal Crossing for christmas.

They're focusing their marketing dollar in the hopes that their big hits become ginormous hits.

Now if a third party publisher had developed metroid prime 3 and were smart.....they could afford to concentrate their marketing dollars focus on that game and get it to sell much better imo.

but Nintendo doesn't need to.

they can afford to throw Disaster away into the bin and still laugh their way to the bank.

Hopefully 3rd parties see the light and copy Nintendo's marketing strategy ....and not just their games.

 

[obonicus]

Vgchartz does correct its numbers, but there's really no reliable european source like NPD or media create, so it might be better to stick to their JP + US numbers, or just US numbers.

 

[Nano]

Disaster Day of Crisis - 0.03 million (not released yet in US but still lol.... )

That's shocking

they can afford to throw Disaster away into the bin and still laugh their way to the bank.

This is probably what worries me most about Nintendo at the moment =/

 

[midorigreenwood]

Me too Nano......

don't get me wrong when I prostelyse about Nintendo's success this is only from a marketing and financial point of view.

As a gamer and a consumer, I would recommend a X360 (or maybe a Nintendo DS) to anyone who isn't new to gaming because the price is just too darn cheap and it has a really strong games library.

However at the same time....... the balance sheets of western third party publishers (who are heavily invested in the HD consoles) are pretty dismal......

IIRC the only ones who are really making any money is Ubisoft and Blizzard/Activision

 

[DuckThor Evil]

but why does Mario Kart Wii sell twice as good as mario galaxy when it is far out the best game on the console?

Because it's far better suited to social gaming, Which is what the Wii is all about, and it's a Mario game

 

[midorigreenwood]

yeah, that could be true......... to a certain extent.....

but it still doesn't explain the insane sales of wiifit...

or how a freaking two and a half year old ds game in Brain training made the top 10 videogame sales for 2008 in Australia (shooting up the charts around the world too) beating out every single HD console game except GTA 4.

a quick look at the timeline of the mario kart games

mario kart 64 = around 10 million units

MK double dash = around 7 million

MK Wii = trending toward 20-30 milion

there is something seriously fugged up going on and the only logical explanation is how Nintendo is selling their games.

 

[zed]

but it still doesn't explain the insane sales of wiifit...

wiifit is perfectly logical in fact Im surprised its not selling better, even at its high price.
give ppl the idea of getting thin == a sure fire hit.
the only better seller would be some virtual sex game!

mario kart wii OTOH is amazing released in april but top of the UK charts last week + also this week, 8 months after its release!!!!!, I can believe the 12+ million sales
its doubtful if a single AAA title on the ps3/xbox360 will ever reach that figure

 

[midorigreenwood]

yeah, in hindsight an exercise game should have been a nobrainer........ but why has Wiifit succeeded when exercise games have been scratching at the edge of niche since the NES. It has to be the result of some concentrated marketing strategy.

I remember that jogging pad thingy where you run on it and jump to dodge obstacles. If Nintendo had conquered the world with that back then.... I'm sure we would be seeing a very different company today

However there is also a DS game only released in japan so far by Nintendo.

Aruite Wakaru: Seikatsu Rhythm. IMO it should have been just as appealing as Wiifit. They supply you with two wireless pedometers and you use the DS to track your progress. The aim is to get you into a walking routine with members of your family to keep you motivated.

It has only sold around 80 000 copies compared to around 3 million Wiifits :/

why has the product failed to garner the same crazy word of mouth?

are exercise games a fad?

perhaps its the sleek design of the balance board or the mysterious allure of Yoga exercises.....because seeing women going crazy on the Ellen or Oprah show is kinda unsettling (even microsoft is trying to get into the action..... they sponsor that water dunking contraption on the Ellen show)

well, I guess we'll find out soon enough...... the DS walking trainer is going to be released in Europe February 2009.

 

[Nano]

Me too Nano......

don't get me wrong when I prostelyse about Nintendo's success this is only from a marketing and financial point of view.

As a gamer and a consumer, I would recommend a X360 (or maybe a Nintendo DS) to anyone who isn't new to gaming because the price is just too darn cheap and it has a really strong games library.

However at the same time....... the balance sheets of western third party publishers (who are heavily invested in the HD consoles) are pretty dismal......

IIRC the only ones who are really making any money is Ubisoft and Blizzard/Activision

Good point.

Expanding on the idea of Disaster: DOC being a flop despite its, well, apparent goals, I'm actually surprised how little attention hardcore games are getting from Nintendo themselves. They claim to be catering for that audience too (and sure have the capacity to) but its not the impression they're giving off. This of course puts off developers and some fans.

Personally, I was most interested in Wii for how the controller could compliment deeper games such as FPS (huge potential) and adventures which Zelda gave a glimpse of, but I think too much focus is put on the casual side of stuff. I feel at this point, Wii's expansion to that market is self sufficient and very much in the door, I think they should have started pushing what the Wii can offer in the richer, more complex forms of gaming too, unfortunately this now feels like a pipe dream especially after the E3 showing.

 

[RancidLunchmeat]

I really think you're all missing the point. Nintendo came out with no intentions other than to be profitable selling a gaming system.

They achieved that with incredible success, in part due to their unique interface, and in part due to leveraging their exclusive IP.

Neither MS or Sony had the strict goal of trying to be a gaming device, or be profitable solely through that means. MS focused on digital distribution, which is why they have the lead there, Sony focused on physical distribution, which is why they have the lead there. Both things include gaming but expand far beyond those strict limits.

The Wii is a "kids game" it is a very simple, easy to use, toy. That is exactly why it is having the success that it is.

To try and turn the wiimote into a more accurate device to expand to use for FPS or such is contradictory to its purpose and success.

To get to the heart of the thread, the reason 3rd parties aren't jumping on the Wii-bandwagon (ignoring demographics for a second), is because all the BIG names sell tech-demos. iD and Epic sell games, sure. But they make more money selling their engines. They make their money by selling bleeding edge software tech that pushes the current hardware to its limits.

I have no doubt that iD or Epic could make a great game that pushed the Wii hardware to its limits and also made great use of the wiimote. The problem is that it isn't profitable for them to do so. They couldn't sell that game on any other platform.

As great as the Wii is doing, in order for it to be profitable for third parties to really invest in it, it would have to move more software than the PS3, 360 and PC combined.

It simply isn't doing that. Not for anything other than a Nintendo exclusive IP, anyway.

 

[Entropy]

I really think you're all missing the point. Nintendo came out with no intentions other than to be profitable selling a gaming system.

They achieved that with incredible success, in part due to their unique interface, and in part due to leveraging their exclusive IP.

Neither MS or Sony had the strict goal of trying to be a gaming device, or be profitable solely through that means. MS focused on digital distribution, which is why they have the lead there, Sony focused on physical distribution, which is why they have the lead there. Both things include gaming but expand far beyond those strict limits.

"Far beyond" - well, that's in the eye of the beholder, I guess. Playing video and music seems to be the major addition, which the PS3 does a passable to good job of, and the 360 doesn't.

The Wii is a "kids game" it is a very simple, easy to use, toy. That is exactly why it is having the success that it is.

This is where most Wii detractors here go wrong. The Wii appeals to a very broad spectrum of users. It simply doesn't specifically adress gore-happy male 10-17 year olds.
Kids are not the target of Wii-fit and other iconic Wii titles, and yet they are very successful indeed.

To try and turn the wiimote into a more accurate device to expand to use for FPS or such is contradictory to its purpose and success.

Oddly enough, making the Wiimote more accurate and versatile has been important enough for Nintendo to develop an add-on for the purpose, and it has been speculated/assumed that this improvement would eventually become standard for the Wii or more likely its successor. So Nintendo obviously doesn't share your view of their console.

To get to the heart of the thread, the reason 3rd parties aren't jumping on the Wii-bandwagon (ignoring demographics for a second), is because all the BIG names sell tech-demos. iD and Epic sell games, sure. But they make more money selling their engines. They make their money by selling bleeding edge software tech that pushes the current hardware to its limits.

Id and Epic not being on the platform is hardly a large problem, although capable middleware (at reasonable price points) is a help for any platform. The reason why there aren't all that many large scale third party efforts on the Wii is probably much simpler - the publishers didn't think the console would be as big a success as it turned out to be. Arguably, this wasn't clear until a year ago, and even then it's success was claimed by many to be a passing fad.
It simply takes time to produce an AAA title, and there hasn't been enough of it from the time it was clear that the user base of the Wii would justify the effort. Indeed, judging by other games on other platforms the time it takes to produce such a game makes it unlikely for them to turn up during 2010. We'll see in 2011, if publishers of such titles deemed it likely that they could hit a profitable window at all on the platform, justifying a really large scale effort.
It may be that many third parties were so late in recognizing the market strength of the Wii, that by now they simply regard it as a missed opportunity, other than for relatively simple/cheap/quick to produce games.

 

[RancidLunchmeat]

"Far beyond" - well, that's in the eye of the beholder, I guess. Playing video and music seems to be the major addition, which the PS3 does a passable to good job of, and the 360 doesn't.

Are you really arguing the point that the PS3 and 360 don't offer entertainment experiences that go well beyond and have nothing to do with video games? I'm not sure about the controversy in this statement.

This is where most Wii detractors here go wrong. The Wii appeals to a very broad spectrum of users. It simply doesn't specifically adress gore-happy male 10-17 year olds. Kids are not the target of Wii-fit and other iconic Wii titles, and yet they are very successful indeed.

You're correct on this one, I use the phrase 'kids' and the term 'toy' not to indicate a specific age demographic but rather to indicate a skill level of the audience.

This was not a derogatory reference, it was used to indicate the fact that the Wii was designed and has had success because, of the fact it is easy to use. Whether that be by "kids" or by "grandparents", the result is the same.

Oddly enough, making the Wiimote more accurate and versatile has been important enough for Nintendo to develop an add-on for the purpose, and it has been speculated/assumed that this improvement would eventually become standard for the Wii or more likely its successor. So Nintendo obviously doesn't share your view of their console.

Ehh... No, they don't, and I think that's likely where they are likely to go wrong. The inaccuracy of the input device is what fuels game design and its part of what makes the console so approachable. If they succeed in making the wiimote as accurate as a gamepad, what they've succeeding in doing is making the experience about practice and experience. The exact opposite of why they've had success.

Id and Epic not being on the platform is hardly a large problem,

"problem" is as relative as a term as "far beyond", which you pointed out above. Because this thread begins with the premise that the lack of 3rd party developers for the Wii is a problem, the point remains.

The reason why there aren't all that many large scale third party efforts on the Wii is probably much simpler - the publishers didn't think the console would be as big a success as it turned out to be. Arguably, this wasn't clear until a year ago, and even then it's success was claimed by many to be a passing fad.
It simply takes time to produce an AAA title, and there hasn't been enough of it from the time it was clear that the user base of the Wii would justify the effort.

I simply can't disagree more here. Sure, Epic had advanced warning of the window when they made Gears, but the development time between Gears and Gears2 was short.

I don't think the position that you're putting forth here, that 3rd party developers simply hadn't had time to acknowledge and adjust to the Wii's market share holds any water at all at this point.

They've had plenty of time to react, they should know the Wii achitecture better than the PS3 or 360 because they developed games (or ports) for the 'cube.

The problem is twofold. First, they simply don't sell. Especially not in proportion to the user base, the second is the point I made earlier.. spending those resources results in a single-console product. It doesn't make sense to do that, when you could spend the same resources and create a 3-platform product.

 

[midorigreenwood]

Its not just a matter to adjusting to the Wii graphics architecture as you suggest (gamecube to wii) but also changing their entire philosophy towards game design.

no doubt, when the wiimote was first revealed, everyone rejoiced for 1:1 motion controls but obviously that was not to be the case.

However at the same time.... the majority of game developers were looking at the Wii the wrong way.... ie: trying to mold the wiimote around their traditional view of videogames rather than the other way around.

Sure the easy way out is to make cheap and easy ripoffs of nintendo games......but what happens when everyone does the same thing and the market is saturated?

It doesn't really matter if companies like EPIC snubs the Wii. They have a nice little earner going on in their niche building middleware and cinematic blockbusters. They don't need the Wii.......but not everyone is in the financial position of an outlier like EPIC.

Other developers should be looking at something like Zack and Wiki (or boom blox or 5th cell on the DS platform) which was one of the first and few third party games to embrace a design philosphy around the wiimote.

eg: pointing function to easily navigate the character around the levels and the visceral feeling of using motion controls to simulate the actions of tools to solve puzzles.

yes, it was pretty much a commercial hit and miss.....but that is a more a failure of marketing rather than game design (btw Zack and wiki is by no means a perfect game....alot of annoying bits too) which is what this thread is basically about.

The key to ongoing financial success is trying to find ways to exploit the Wiimote's strengths to develop new gaming experiences to differentiate yourself from your competitiors and then executing a proper marketing strategy tailored to the Wii audience to make sure that everyone knows that your game even exists.

That is the lesson to learn from Nintendo.

Also it is getting harder and harder to say that the Wii audience is one monolithic casual block in the same way of the hardcore on the HD consoles.

It is trending towards 70-80 million sales by the end of 2009...... there will be enough customers for all types of games like on the PS2 or the DS if marketed properly.

 

[RancidLunchmeat]

Also it is getting harder and harder to say that the Wii audience is one monolithic casual block in the same way of the hardcore on the HD consoles.

It is trending towards 70-80 million sales by the end of 2009...... there will be enough customers for all types of games like on the PS2 or the DS if marketed properly.

What gives you the idea that those 70-80 million customers aren't all attracted to the Wii for the very same reason, and therefore using the Wii in the very same way?

You are putting forth the idea here that the size of the population dictates differences, and I'm not sure that's the case.

Especially not with the knowledge that the population of non-gamers (however those were defined prior to 2000 or 2005) was always magnitudes of volume greater than the population of gamers (again, how you are defining those as a contra-positive to the prior definition).

Now, I don't have facts on this, but is there any disagreement here that the population that is interesting in purchasing the Wii and that the sample that is actually purchasing the Wii, both include individuals that didn't own a PS2 or any console last generation?

Or... are you arguing that point? (I'd just like to be clear as to what it is exactly that we are discussing.)

 

[midorigreenwood]

I'm suggesting that the Wii has reached the mass market jackpot of capturing people of all ages and of all sexes while the HD consoles are stuck with maybe 18-35 yr old males. Their sales numbers and expansion of the market suggest that they have transcended the console wars and are now on a whole new tier like the Ipod.

That means that there is plenty of leeway for developers to find holes in the market to exploit as their niche.

I mean, if you have made a unique game (even an exclusive FPS like the conduit) and are struggling to get pass the generally assumed breakeven point of 500k sales from an install base of 80 million plus consoles...... you should really kick your marketing team in the nuts.

Here are some possible examples of niches to exploit on the Wii

1) Who is fueling the insane sales of Wiifit?

The fact that Walmart now have display kiosks at the clothing section suggests a shitload of women of all ages.

How can developers exploit this new generation of console owners?

a new exercise game? Tone your buttocks in 20 minutes?

Why not exploit the blockbuster of the modern literature market - The Romance Fiction.

Take a leaf out of the Ace Attorney series on the DS or similar japanese wii games but instead develop an interactive adventure targeted at Women. You don't need a team of 200 people working for four years developing terabytes of 3d assets to get the hearts fluttering. A beautiful 2d Art style and an interesting story could be all you need for success.

Why not a tragic love story involving two gay lovers? Brokeback mountain Wii.

Don't laugh....... sales of these types of manga/comics in the Japanese market suggest as much popularity with locked up housewives as well as young girls.

I remember talking with a young woman about why she was so addicted to the Sims series. Her favourite part of the game was the sandbox element of making up intricate stories (interestingly usually involving a love triange with one man and two women) with her "play dolls".

from Wiki

The romance novel market continued to expand, so that by 1991, they comprised 46% of all mass market paperbacks sold in the US. This expansion was due in part to voracious readers, with over half of Harlequin's customers purchasing 30 novels per month. By this time, the romance novel audience had become more educated, with 45% having a college degree, and more than half of the audience worked outside the home.

By the 2000s, romance had become the most popular genre in modern literature. In 2004, romantic fiction generated $1.2 billion in sales, with 2,285 romance novels published. Almost 55% of all paperback books sold in 2004 were romance novels, and this genre made up 39% of all fiction sold that year. Over 64 million people claimed to have read at least one romance novel in 2004, according to a Romance Writers of America study, a 26% increase over their 2001 study. Twenty-two percent of romance readers identified themselves as male, and the romance readers were split evenly between people who were married and those who were single. People of all ages read romance novels, with one percent of readers younger than 13, and forty-two percent of them have at least a bachelor's degree.

International markets

Harlequin sells more than 4 books per second, half of them internationally. Author Heather Graham attributes this to the fact that "emotions translate easily."[94] In the United Kingdom, over 20% of all fiction books sold each year are romance novels

2) A Burnout type game - possibly one of the glaring financial missteps this generation. EA/Criterion spent an inordinate amount investing in a beautiful graphics engine with a huge sandbox city to explore and sales on the HD consoles have been largely disappointing.

What is the essence of the burnout series?

Fast speed, car crashes and simplistic controls yet with fun gameplay and a rocking soundtrack.

In fact you could argue that it is just as easy to play burnout as Mario Kart. The controls are basically left or right with your finger held on the accelerator or boost button. If you crash.... who cares. The game rewards dangerous and wild driving styles and a quick boost will get you back in the race. They could easily ripoff Excite Truck controls to streamline the controls even more to take advantage of the Wiimote.

I own both burnout ports on the PSP. The game has aged well and it is just as much fun to play as something like Mario Kart. Beautiful HD graphics of Burnout Paradise are more a bonus than a defining feature of the series.

In hindsight, the best decision to grow the franchise would have been to develop a game with an enhanced last gen engine and use the savings to market the hell out of the game. Leave the racing simulations on the HD consoles and bring the fun arcade style racing games to the Wii (with the secondary market of the PS2).

If it could even capture a quarter of the people buying Mario Kart.....then it would have been one of the biggest success stories of the generation.

What does EA greenlight instead? Nascar Karts ....... hmmm..... :/

They own the Burnout franchise and instead of exploiting it they waste money developing a totally new IP? Its a very inefficient way of doing business.

 

[obonicus]

I'm suggesting that the Wii has reached the mass market jackpot of capturing people of all ages and of all sexes while the HD consoles are stuck with maybe 18-35 yr old males. Their sales numbers and expansion of the market suggest that they have transcended the console wars and are now on a whole new tier like the Ipod.

You didn't answer his question. Who are these people? A new market, or the old market? There's very little to suggest that the audience that made many smaller series successful on the PS2 are now on the Wii, other than sheer numbers. It's odd, because an NPD study said that something like 70% of Wii owners had a PS2 last gen. I have my doubts about the validity of that, it seems to fly in the face of logic.

I mean, if you have made a unique game (even an exclusive FPS like the conduit) and are struggling to get pass the generally assumed breakeven point of 500k sales from an install base of 80 million plus consoles...... you should really kick your marketing team in the nuts.

Or you can realize that your audience isn't interested in that game? Marketing will help, but if the market's not there, it's not there.

1) Who is fueling the insane sales of Wiifit?

Yes, who? The old PS2 owners? Any of these people are going to be interested in old-fashioned games?

Take a leaf out of the Ace Attorney series on the DS or similar japanese wii games but instead develop an interactive adventure targeted at Women. You don't need a team of 200 people working for four years developing terabytes of 3d assets to get the hearts fluttering. A beautiful 2d Art style and an interesting story could be all you need for success.

Why not a tragic love story involving two gay lovers? Brokeback mountain Wii.

What makes you think these games are huge sellers in the first place? Is Ace Attorney tearing up the charts on the DS? Whatever you think the Wii is, the DS must be bigger, right? In fact, why not do this on the DS, which also doesn't have this kind of title and has an even greater install base?

Also, isn't this about convincing 3rd party developers to put real effort? If you're talking about making games that don't really appeal to the 'core' audience, they're already doing that.

Don't laugh....... sales of these types of manga/comics in the Japanese market suggest as much popularity with locked up housewives as well as young girls.

The US and Japanese markets are very, very different. Also, 428 hardly did very well in Japan.

2) A Burnout type game - possibly one of the glaring financial missteps this generation. EA/Criterion spent an inordinate amount investing in a beautiful graphics engine with a huge sandbox city to explore and sales on the HD consoles have been largely disappointing.

I believe Burnout broke a million world-wide. It's never been that huge a series, even on the PS2, at least not compared to NFS. It certainly isn't as big as Mario Kart, no matter what system it's on.

Maybe they should rerelease Burnout 3 for the Wii, since both Nintendo and Capcom are rocking the rereleases.

 

[midorigreenwood]

You didn't answer his question. Who are these people? A new market, or the old market? There's very little to suggest that the audience that made many smaller series successful on the PS2 are now on the Wii, other than sheer numbers. It's odd, because an NPD study said that something like 70% of Wii owners had a PS2 last gen. I have my doubts about the validity of that, it seems to fly in the face of logic.

A combination of both due to the types of software that are the blockbusters on the Wii and DS. Without recruiting ninjas to hide out at walmart to spy on unsuspecting shoppers its hard to be more specific than that but this quote straight from Nintendo's mouth...

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/markets/japan/article2629649.ece

According to Nintendo’s own Japan-only figures, 51 per cent of Wii users and 53 per cent of players on the handheld DS machine are women.

Women have been attracted to the handheld machine by games such as Nintendogs and a rich variety of "lifestyle" titles in Japan that teach cookery, healthy eating and make-up tips.

The company said that the shift is part of an overall transformation of the demographics of gaming.

Where previous Nintendo products reached mainly a market aged between 7 and 16 years old, the Wii and DS have an ardent and sizeable Japanese fan-base aged between 40 and 62.

As the same types of software are selling throughout the world, you can make the assumption that similar demographics are buying the console in the west too. I don't think even the PS2 can boast of having 50% of owners being female or attracting older adults although there was a strong following of the singstar series in Europe.

Or you can realize that your audience isn't interested in that game? Marketing will help, but if the market's not there, it's not there.

I've already shown that a cheap port of RE4 Wii can sell nearly as well as the GCN and the PS2. There are plenty of other non-shovelware games with decent sales that suggest there is a market for more complicated games.

Noone will truly know until they properly test the market but if you were a betting man you would assume that you could find a profitable niche from such a massive install base...... especially considering that the HD consoles are so flooded with these types of titles and the Wii so barren.

Yes, who? The old PS2 owners? Any of these people are going to be interested in old-fashioned games?

read above Times article

What makes you think these games are huge sellers in the first place? Is Ace Attorney tearing up the charts on the DS? Whatever you think the Wii is, the DS must be bigger, right? In fact, why not do this on the DS, which also doesn't have this kind of title and has an even greater install base?

Also, isn't this about convincing 3rd party developers to put real effort? If you're talking about making games that don't really appeal to the 'core' audience, they're already doing that.

Did anyone think that a dog game and a pseudo-scientific collection of brain teasers would be amongst the biggest blockbusters in videogames?

obviously developers didn't until Nintendo showed the way and now there are a multitude of clones struggling to find recognition.

Its like the start of a gold rush....... you can try to find a new area for yourself that hasn't been over mined and test it out....if it works.....you hit jackpot....you have captured a new audience all to yourself.

or you can let Nintendo suck your Milkshake with their ginormous straw

The romance genre targeting women are a proven financial winner in other mediums like literature and movies......theres no reason why it can't be the same with videogames.

Also, yes... no reason why you couldn't have a version on the DS too...especially for building recognition of your new franchise but I was hypothesing a way for developers/publishers to target people buying wiifit rather than just making a exercise game ripoff.

The US and Japanese markets are very, very different. Also, 428 hardly did very well in Japan.

Gravitation, a shounen-ai (boy love for lack of a better translation) manga/anime has a pretty big following in the West.

Also Harlequinn, one of the gorillas of the romance literature industry has published several hundred manga versions of their bodice rippers in the japanese market.

It seems that romance and love transcends cultural borders.

I believe Burnout broke a million world-wide. It's never been that huge a series, even on the PS2, at least not compared to NFS. It certainly isn't as big as Mario Kart, no matter what system it's on.

Maybe they should rerelease Burnout 3 for the Wii, since both Nintendo and Capcom are rocking the rereleases.

but its still a recognisable brand and considering that sales have gone backwards since the transition to the HD consoles, it would suggest that the investment would have been better spent elsewhere.

obviously its not as huge as mario kart......yet...... but the philosophy of both games are similar and customers are not going to know that unless you tell them.

A publisher like EA should be consolidating their brands rather than wasting money making new ones.