What constitutes a successful console? (other than profit!) *spawn
- Thread starter mrcorbo
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Literally no value!? I'm sorry but that can't be right.
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Deleted member 11852
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That's nonsense. Nintendo are borderline irrelevant in the modern console business and their strategies are as dated as their premium IP. Metroid is another they can't let go of. Hell, Animal Crossing and Pikmin, considered to be a modern IP, are fourteen years old.
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I definitely don't want more, I want new IP from time to time. Without even looking I know Sony have developed more IP in the last four console generations than Nintendo have in the last eight. There is a reason PlayStation is renowned for having diverse gaming library and that is because Sony are willing to try new things while Nintendo just trot out another IP sequel from four decades ago.
It would have been so easy for Naughty Dog to continue PS2's Jak and Daxter on PS3 but they created Uncharted. It would have bene really easy to knock out endless Uncharted games but they developed The Last of Us. I find it very difficult to believe that Nintendo's creative teams really want to make the 30th (low-ball estimate) Mario game.
That's true, if you consider the Wii a blimp which reached a totally new audience...it's hard to argue against it TBH.
I definitely don't want more, I want new IP from time to time. Without even looking I know Sony have developed more IP in the last four console generations than Nintendo have in the last eight. There is a reason PlayStation is renowned for having diverse gaming library and that is because Sony are willing to try new things while Nintendo just trot out another IP sequel from four decades ago.
It would have been so easy for Naughty Dog to continue PS2's Jak and Daxter on PS3 but they created Uncharted. It would have bene really easy to knock out endless Uncharted games but they developed The Last of Us. I find it very difficult to believe that Nintendo's creative teams really want to make the 30th (low-ball estimate) Mario game.
Totally agree, it's why I am a PS gamer (used to buy all the consoles) - I know Sony will give me some nice exclusive IPs along with the pick of mass market fodder should I choose to.
It always irks me when people go on about how the Wii was so revolutionary when I was playing similar games years before at CES (a tennis game using a racket, gold game using a golf club type thing) and then of course the PS2 had the eyetoy which got very little credit...I hope Sony don't mess up Morpheus
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It true. How predictive can be the past gen market leader be in the console space when most market leaders were preceded by predecessors that werent the dominant console of the preceding gen.
The sales of the Wii, PS2, Super NES and Atari 2600 don't correlate well with sales of their successors. They were followed by the WiiU, PS3, N64 and Atari 7800 (?). While the NES and the PS1 went on to lead their gens with no previous presence by Sony and Nintendo. And the Wii, PS4, 360 and Genesis showed much stronger sales after previously weak showing by predecessors.
Maybe it foreign what I am saying because this is not normal behavior for most markets. But the console market is the Bermuda Triangle of Technology. You have to look at the circumstances within each gen because they have proven to be the dominant factors that drive sales.
But you said literally no value, how on earth would PS3 sell any units at it's launch time and price if the success of the PS2 didn't happen!?
I understand being on top doesn't mean you will stay on top - that's the same for any market (cars etc)
Regarding PS1, that was largely down to them being a massive company promising exiting new things and Ninty - well they were making handhelds and arcade machines so...
I understand being on top doesn't mean you will stay on top - that's the same for any market (cars etc)
Regarding PS1, that was largely down to them being a massive company promising exiting new things and Ninty - well they were making handhelds and arcade machines so...
Predictive value. Not that the PS as a brand has no value at all. In other words, knowing the userbase of the current console platform won't easily allow you to predict the userbase of a succeeding console platform.
I should of been a little clearer in my statement sorry.
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Deleted member 11852
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And this is how a healthy market should be - with gamers choosing the platform that works best for them each generation. This keeps the manufacturers on their toes and ensures there is real competition.
If it works, what's wrong with it? Should Coca-Cola ditch their drink for something new, or Disney shelve Mickey Mouse instead of recreating it? And Batman and Supes are well past their retirement, so why are we getting new content for them every single decade? The brand is pretty much just a skin anyway. Mario Galaxies wouldn't be any better if it was called Emerald Fox's Galaxy Adventure with a different avatar?
Personally I'm surprised that Mario has the appeal it has. I find the brand bland and irritating and tired. But as long as Nintendo's fans buy it, it makes sense to keep making it!
I was thinking about the same exact thing. Is Mario Tennis anything like Mario Galaxy? Mario Party similar to Paper Mario? No, but they use the Mario IP because it does impact its sales potential. For whatever reason, people are far more likely to buy a game when it features an IP they are familiar with. Nintendo wanted to Platinum to use Nintendo's characters for Wonderful 101, and although I commend Platinum for resisting, it ultimately would have stood a much better chance of selling well with Mario and his buddies.
As for the topic of the thread, a successful console for me is the one I enjoy. If there is plenty of games to play to fill my gaming time allotment, and those games are high quality and games I would go back an replay years later, then its a successful console. For the consumer, isn't that the primary criteria? I suppose you could grade them on how many games they have with a 90+ on metacritic. Success in business really comes down to dollars and cents, so its hard to define success and failure for a product without that criteria.
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Deleted member 11852
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You think it's working for Nintendo?
And I'm not sure Mickey Mouse is a good example of a premium IP. Disney sure can't give it up but what was the last Mickey Mouse feature film at the cinema? Revenue from the Mickey Mouse IP is not keeping Disney afloat. Movies like Frozen and Wreck It Ralph are what's pulling in millions of dollars. Drinks are not not entertainment and their appeal is very different.This thread will go around in circles unless, like any good business plan, there is a defined success (or failure) criteria. There are too many ways to measure success but anything based on revenue can't be debated because Microsoft's console business is a huge black hole - by which I mean we know nothing about it and therefore we don't understand it. Numbers of consoles sold is pretty much the only non-subjective metric which is also published.
You think it's working for Nintendo?
This thread will go around in circles unless, like any good business plan, there is a defined success (or failure) criteria. There are too many ways to measure success but anything based on revenue can't be debated because Microsoft's console business is a huge black hole - by which I mean we know nothing about it and therefore we don't understand it. Numbers of consoles sold is pretty much the only non-subjective metric which is also published.
Marvel says hello. Those are a bunch of IPs from the 40s, 60s and 70s.
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Deleted member 11852
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In comics Marvel have (had too?) reboot and reinvent those IPs time and time again draining the life out of them. Who is Iron Man? Interesting question because depending which era you're reading it may not be Tony Stark. Who is Captain America? Interesting question because it may not Steve Rogers. Not to mention the origin story reboots in Ultimate..
But I think Marvel its a poor example of sustainable IP. Marvel was all but broke when they found some success in movies. For many, probably most, cinema goers this was new IP unlike say Superman or Batman which have been done many, many times. Marvel said this is why they did the origin films (Iron Man, Thor, Captain America) introducing and fleshing out the characters for a new audience before embarking on the first Avengers movie. If all those people watching the Marvel movies had been reading the comics, Marvel wouldn't have been in the trouble they were to begin with.
Whether it'll be sustainable IP at the cinema is too early to call.
But to be clear, I'm not saying all old IP is bad. Marvel have a ton of IP. I know from Lego Marvel Superheroes that they have hundreds of characters because I collected every bloody one of them in that game. They'll be new to tens/hundreds of millions of people. Can you say the same about Nintendo's tiny handful?
May be. Mario and it being restricted to Nintendo hardware may be analogous to Marvel chars limited to comic books for so many years. Superman as a film and TV property has been around since the 40s and still seeing releases. Batman has been a film property since the 40s too. The Mario on smartphone may lead to the property being around for a long time. Given that Mario themed titles still sell like hotcakes amongst Nintendo owners that may serve as proof its not the IP thats problematic but the way Nintendo offers it hardware.
Rehashing IP time and time again is probably one of the most successful strategies employed by digital media. Yes, people like new things but they tend to like more of the same even more.
The thing about the current XBOne vs. historical 360 sales graph, though, is that they aren't just comparable in terms of absolute sales numbers. The sales trends even match up to an uncanny degree. XBOne is selling poorly now in a period when the 360s sales also consistently slowed and flattened. Am I the only one who remembers how the PS3 would year after year close the sales gap for the first 9 months of the year only to have the 360 absolutely kill it in Q4 and push it back out again (just delaying the inevitable as it turned out)? The current XBOnes sales aren't really that off from what one could expect them to be based on the 360's historical performance.
If they have weak holiday sales, though, that would indicate a serious problem. As such, I expect them to use every move available to them to make sure that doesn't happen. I think a strong E3 showing could go a long way towards putting them in position to be successful through the end of the year.
If they have weak holiday sales, though, that would indicate a serious problem. As such, I expect them to use every move available to them to make sure that doesn't happen. I think a strong E3 showing could go a long way towards putting them in position to be successful through the end of the year.
Silent_Buddha
Legend
Heh. That reminds me of a few "friends" (using the term loosely) that I know. They still insist that the PS3 sold better in the US than the X360. And that anyone claiming otherwise is lying. BTW - they also believe in UFOs and the Illuminati controlling the world. They are certainly interesting people that have taken a few too many drugs during their lifetime.
Regards,
SB
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