Sony's NeoGeo Pocket's (PSP2/Vita) business/non technical ramifications talk

[ERP]

So there's a lot of downward pressure on prices for these handheld systems and games, which is coming from mobile devices. They may not go down to 99 cents like iOS games but few Vita and 3DS games will be able to get a lot of sales at $40 and $50.

While that certainly seems to be the common assumption, I have to wonder how it will play out.
Uncharted for example is a game with no equivalent on other portable devices, does that make it worth $50 to people, I guess we'll find out from the sales figures.

FWIW I'll buy an IPad3 (time to upgrade my IPad1), but it didn't stop me picking up a VIta.
I also travel with my Vita, but rarely travel with my IPad. I just think they are different devices, it'll be interesting to see how it plays out over the next couple of years.

PSP was hardly an overnight success either, but it is considered a success inside Sony largely based on longer term Japanese sales.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

PSP had much broader reach than just gamers though. It was about the only choice for a portable all-in-one solution, and you were looking at sreious money for something like an Archos portable media player IIRC. It sold to people wanting to watch videos frmo their MemSticks as much as play UMD games. Vita can only really sell on its appeal to gamers, as those not particular interested in that side to Vita won't be attracted by what else it offers compared to a smartphone/iPod/tablette, which limits its potential market massively I think. And as such, the tail of its sales will likely be much shorter than PSP's.

It basically comes down to how many people want to play superior games on a portable? A recent poll suggests nearly a third of PS3 owners were interested, which is all of 20 million. And within a couple of years that number may well have dropped considerably as better competition appears, unless Sony can add some incredible value such as amazing PS3 interoperability. I really do think we're looking at best at a 20 million install base for Vita by the end of its life, though I could be very wrong. But I can't see the rationale behind believing there'll be greater interest.

 

[patsu]

Well the apps. developers will pay for bandwidth from advertisers or whatever and those people will pass on their costs to the consumers.

It's up to the businesses to work out their numbers. Currently, users are already paying for bandwidth. The example they gave allows businesses to raise the users' caps instead of charging for both the content and the overage (which is more expensive than regular price).

 

[patsu]

If they tried to add in PSP software sales they'd just get accused of manipulating the numbers.

Yeah yeah... 8^/

It would be interesting to see the boost, especially with a PSN PSP promo.


FaceBook and Flickr are finally back in action. No more crashes when opening Facebook. And no more crashes when viewing your own upload in Flickr. Seems to be caused by server issues since there is no client update.

Foursquare also hit yesterday...

Foursquare PS Vita app hits US PlayStation Store, gives you another reason to consider 3G
http://www.engadget.com/2012/02/28/foursquare-ps-vita-app-hits-us-playstation-store/

Sony's just announced that the free Foursquare app has officially landed at the PlayStation Store (US), and it can be yours for a paltry 4.5MBs of space on your precious proprietary memory card. The app works over WiFi, however, the fine print advises that users may want to use 3G for the best results to help alongside the Vita's GPS. Notably, the rear touchpad and cameras are listed as being compatible with the app

 

[patsu]

... and for those who want to know how SkyHook works:
http://www.skyhookwireless.com/howitworks/

Pretty interesting read.

SkyHook uses:
* GPS (5 - 10 meters accuracy, open area)
* WiFi access points' signal strength and population spread (claimed 10 - 20 meters accuracy, deep indoor, cities with too many highrises blocking GPS view)
* Cell tower triangulation (200 - 1000 meters)
to pinpoint your location.

Like Google, SkyHook also send out vehicles to collect WiFi access point data all over the world.

EDIT:
Argh, I meant some of the patents here:
http://www.skyhookwireless.com/howitworks/patents.php

 

[patsu]

It basically comes down to how many people want to play superior games on a portable? A recent poll suggests nearly a third of PS3 owners were interested, which is all of 20 million. And within a couple of years that number may well have dropped considerably as better competition appears, unless Sony can add some incredible value such as amazing PS3 interoperability. I really do think we're looking at best at a 20 million install base for Vita by the end of its life, though I could be very wrong. But I can't see the rationale behind believing there'll be greater interest.

Somewhat true, Sony will have to find some solid use cases to appeal to average consumers. The easiest way to think about this is probably to select a target audience and then focus on them (e.g., activities for kids/teens, in-car entertainment for commuters, etc.) -- 'specially if it becomes more affordable.

 

[wco81]

While that certainly seems to be the common assumption, I have to wonder how it will play out.
Uncharted for example is a game with no equivalent on other portable devices, does that make it worth $50 to people, I guess we'll find out from the sales figures.

FWIW I'll buy an IPad3 (time to upgrade my IPad1), but it didn't stop me picking up a VIta.
I also travel with my Vita, but rarely travel with my IPad. I just think they are different devices, it'll be interesting to see how it plays out over the next couple of years.

Put aside the issue of money, though for a lot of people, it's hard to justify buying both within a couple of weeks of each other.

Do you have the time to make good use of both devices? Or is it more common that people buy a new console or handheld, get into it for a few months, especially if there are good games, then put it on the shelf for awhile, because of a lull in good games being released or because the novelty has worn off.

I anticipate using the iPad every day, even though it will mostly be at home. I may or may not travel with it but it seems daily use is common. Especially there are indications that tablets are used with the TV on and often late at night and early in the morning, suggesting bedside use as well.

 

[ERP]

Certainly they are both competing for consumer dollars, but I have to wonder how many people who throw $500-$600 dollars at an IPad worry about another $300. I guess I just can't imaging buying an IPad if I was worried about what it cost.

I do use my IPad most days, but I also own a lap top, 2 Kindles and a Vita. The Vita is certainly predominantly a gaming platform, what I don't see is IPad or other portable devices competing with games of Vitas quality regardless of underlying hardware. The $.99 or even $9.99 app store price tags just can't justify the development costs.

As I said big question is do people want that on a portable device and a few months ago I'd probably have guessed no. Having used one, I find it far more compelling than PSP ever was. That of course doesn't mean other people will feel the same way.

 

[senas8]

Great! The videos I've converted for iPad are readily viewable on Vita. Don't know if you'll be able to transfer videos that you've bought from iTunes, though.
But this is great, as I don't need to re-convert anything :thumbsup:

Any places where I could dl some wallpapers? Googling gives some sites but there really isn't much to choose from yet, and what there is are mostly some game characters and such, I'd prefer abstract wallpapers, nature etc... Some stylish wallpaper for the lock-screen would be nice.
Edit: Oh! I shuld've read the post above Thanks patsu!

Wallpapers here: http://community.us.playstation.com/thread/4672480?start=0&tstart=0

 

[TheChefO]

PSP had much broader reach than just gamers though. It was about the only choice for a portable all-in-one solution, and you were looking at sreious money for something like an Archos portable media player IIRC. It sold to people wanting to watch videos frmo their MemSticks as much as play UMD games. Vita can only really sell on its appeal to gamers, as those not particular interested in that side to Vita won't be attracted by what else it offers compared to a smartphone/iPod/tablette, which limits its potential market massively I think. And as such, the tail of its sales will likely be much shorter than PSP's.

It basically comes down to how many people want to play superior games on a portable? A recent poll suggests nearly a third of PS3 owners were interested, which is all of 20 million. And within a couple of years that number may well have dropped considerably as better competition appears, unless Sony can add some incredible value such as amazing PS3 interoperability. I really do think we're looking at best at a 20 million install base for Vita by the end of its life, though I could be very wrong. But I can't see the rationale behind believing there'll be greater interest.

Agreed.

The curve ball in this projection though could be former console gamers shifting to portable or DS gamers growing up and wanting a portable, but with more mature content.

Another x-factor might be Sony(or other) bringing Android to the hardware as a dual boot option when the hardware is break-even or profitable. Thus they'd have a mini Android tablet on offer for roughly $200 with a portable game console thrown in for free.

Compelling.

 

[Gitaroo]

or if they have enough support and developers on board with their PS suites thing, Vita can be very compelling already. They just need the functionality that most ppl use their tablet for to get started, ereader, a much better browser, DLNA, skype, etc. They need to do it sooner and faster rather than later when they are much better hardware in the same price range available in the near future (a year or 2 maybe). Don't update 5 years later like the PS3 browser, thats something I never understand with sony; they always do things slow and later than all the competitors.

 

[TheChefO]

or if they have enough support and developers on board with their PS suites thing, Vita can be very compelling already. They just need the functionality that most ppl use their tablet for to get started, ereader, a much better browser, DLNA, skype, etc. They need to do it sooner and faster rather than later when they are much better hardware in the same price range available in the near future (a year or 2 maybe). Don't update 5 years later like the PS3 browser, thats something I never understand with sony; they always do things slow and later than all the competitors.

Well that is one thing about loss leading hardware: If it is being sold for a loss, the only way to make up that loss is if people are buying it for games and buying enough games to offset the loss per unit.

So initially, I understand Sony's desire to keep it very games focused. But I don't think it will take them long to bring the BOM down to break even (28nm) and from there, the extra functionality can be pushed for.

 

[rabidrabbit]

Wallpapers here: http://community.us.playstation.com/thread/4672480?start=0&tstart=0

Those are great wallpapers, thank you! Clever idea making a wallpaper as a kind of folder for different types of software :thumbsup:
These are just what I'm looking for

 

[patsu]

It doesn't have to be just games !

Games are the primary focus but Sony makes money from accessories, and (music, movie, media hosting, game) subscriptions too.

PS Suite may be late to the market, but Sony take a certain % from app sales. Since PS Suite runs on other platforms as well, it does not necessarily drive Vita sales. However, it may be attractive for developers to write software for Vita plus other platforms.

 

[patsu]

New Vita Titles To Be Announced on March 9
http://andriasang.com/con05a/vita_heaven/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

Sony is promising information on unannounced PlayStation Vita titles during a web broadcast that it will hold on March 9. The broadcast is titled "Welcome! PlayStation Vita Game Heaven."

According to Sony's announcement, the broadcast will include information about unannounced Vita titles, upcoming releases, and Vita services, as well as new information about in-release titles. The broadcast will feature presentations from game creators themselves.

...

Probably to help boost Vita sales in Japan. Also to remind people of Vita and games after Apple's March event. ^_^

I doubt sales will increase just based on new information. There should be promos and instant gratification. Otherwise, consumers won't feel the need to order right away. I also think they should polish the Vita OS one more round to remove the occasional freeze and other rough edges.

 

[patsu]

Well, one of the advantages of the rear-touchpad (as well as buttons ) is that it sometimes saves you from needing the front touchpad. I'm not sure in which one but I think the Facebook app, if you're browsing through photos you can swipe the rear as well as the front to go through the fotos. Weird, but it works.

http://twitter.com/#!/yosp

I just realized Facebook app on PS Vita allows News Feed scroll up and down and photos zoomed in using back touch. A nice touch indeed

All the apps are functional albeit basic. They look pretty but could benefit from slightly more functionality. e.g., FaceBook lacks Timeline (Could use some speed up too !). Flickr is better, but they should allow us to upload to other destinations instead of just "Vita folder". Also missing multi-file select although we can bulk upload files by selecting them one at a time. Twitter is the best of the bunch IMHO.

The web browser FaceBook is more flexible and we can pinch zoom. The FaceBook app is more rigid, but has more display options. I always thought Sony should integrate the apps into common workflows. e.g., Edit and upload screenshots to Flickr, Twitter, or FaceBook in one simple flow.

On the web browser front, they should fix the slow redraw issue quickly.

 

[eastmen]

Well after much back and forth with Tacobell and ventura , my vita shipped yesterday.

 

[Arwin]

All the apps are functional albeit basic. They look pretty but could benefit from slightly more functionality. e.g., FaceBook lacks Timeline (Could use some speed up too !). Flickr is better, but they should allow us to upload to other destinations instead of just "Vita folder". Also missing multi-file select although we can bulk upload files by selecting them one at a time. Twitter is the best of the bunch IMHO.

The web browser FaceBook is more flexible and we can pinch zoom. The FaceBook app is more rigid, but has more display options. I always thought Sony should integrate the apps into common workflows. e.g., Edit and upload screenshots to Flickr, Twitter, or FaceBook in one simple flow.

On the web browser front, they should fix the slow redraw issue quickly.

Would be nice if they give you the option for back touch scrolling and pinching by default in all applications. I can see that some wouldn't want the option, but I'd strongly recommend Sony to push for some kind of general application, perhaps even giving the option to say at an OS level that the back touch can mirror the front touch for all interactions for those games that don't use the back touch themselves.

At any rate, I'd definitely appreciate back touch scrolling in Facebook, and would love to have it in the webbrowser at least. I'm getting used to that really fast, like how it works in Motorstorm RC too for switching between the different event views/highscores. Back touch is very elegant for those type of things imho.

Congrats eastmen, looks like you'll get it in time for Motorstorm RC, which is all that matters.

 

[patsu]

Well after much back and forth with Tacobell and ventura , my vita shipped yesterday.

Do you get a free memory card also ?

EDIT:
Meanwhile, Sony seems to be prepping some GDC announcements...
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=35619445&postcount=1

 

[eastmen]

Patsu


I get the Vita wifi /3G + 4 gig memory card + a case + little deviants + Little big planet.

Since little big planet was delayed I also get hot shots golf ?

Its called the first edition bundle