Sony's NeoGeo Pocket's (PSP2/Vita) business/non technical ramifications talk

[upnorthsox]

Doubtful it'd be 40% off from the start. Probably more like a progressive reduction with a standard 15% off for DD and going to 40% after 6 months. There will probably be a PS+ discount too. In this way, low sellers can reduce quicker to gain interest and yet still end up with higher % in later life/cycle.

 

[DuckThor Evil]

Price breakdowns I've seen in the past haven't suggested to me %40 overhead for retail and distribution. something like 25% retailer margins (which is RRP, not what it's sold for where retailers competitively price) and a few dollars manufacturing and distribution. The amount you can save by cutting out the middle man should come under 40%. A lower price should see more sales, so that may be part of the pricing policy especially where it cuts out resales.

The loss of resale possibility is a big part of why I said that 40% sounds about right. I don't care much about release prices anymore though, as I pretty much only buy slightly older games nowadays and they are all cheap. I'll enjoy a game just as much 6-12 months after the release date. Usually bugs are gone then I get more content cheaply.

 

[Prophecy2k]

Perhaps my comments about the 40% discount sounding right were a little optimistic, and were a little more of wishful thinking than anything else, however i definintely think that Sony needs to do more to work the prices down for Vita games.

Trying to bring in extra revenue through stuff like DLC i'd wager is far less effective than with the home console games. So perhaps Sony is looking at taking a smaller slice of the pie for Vita games and passing that saving on to the end user? So long as they're making money on the HW from launch, that might be a smarter way to go.

 

[Prophecy2k]

EDIT: this is a reply to prophecy, not Shifty, with whom I agree.

It is never that simple though. Retailers have an advantage in that they sometimes get discounts for a guaranteed sale. Digital distribution costs also aren't zero - they aren't nearly as 'fire-and-forget' as printing a disc is, because users download and can keep downloading the game, there is licence management, etc.

I agree with you Arwin that it won't be a simple, easy or issue-free process for Sony, however its also in both Sony as the plaform holder and their 3rd party publishing partner's interests to aggressively move to cut retail out of the picture.

I'm not saying they should screw retail completely, there always home console software that retailers can profit from. But ultimately when its a question of the wholesale life or death of a portable platform, one that has to compete against the likes of smartphones that don't have the trappings of trying to appease retail outlets for the content that's distributed, Sony has to eventually man-up and do something drastic to ensure the success of their portable business. Even if the retail sellers get annoyed.

 

[patsu]

Rumor: Downloading PSN Games On Vita 40% Cheaper Than Retail
http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/...-vita-40-cheaper-than-retail.aspx?PageIndex=2

I'll believe it when I see it. ^_^

Would be a superb move against iOS/Android games though. Suddenly that locked down memory card looks more appealing too.

May be a good complement for Free-to-Play model too since SOE seems to have gone there.

 

[patsu]

Besides standard Vita games, I would also like to know the pricing for cross-platform Vita games. Specifically if I have Metal Gears 5 on PS3, how much do I need to pay to play the same game on Vita ? Or if I have Skyrim on PC, how much do I pay for Skyrim Vita ?

 

[Brad Grenz]

Well, it could be Sony is setting the table like this: If you buy on PSN, you get both the PS3 and Vita versions (as seen with Motostorm: RC). If you buy a physical copy on disc or cart you probably won't get more than a one time code for a discounted digital version for the opposite hardware. That's a good way to protect themselves against a used market, defend price parity between digital and physical versions of the same game and encourage multi-system ownership and PSN patronage.

 

[upnorthsox]

That's a pretty good idea.

 

[patsu]

Well, it could be Sony is setting the table like this: If you buy on PSN, you get both the PS3 and Vita versions (as seen with Motostorm: RC). If you buy a physical copy on disc or cart you probably won't get more than a one time code for a discounted digital version for the opposite hardware. That's a good way to protect themselves against a used market, defend price parity between digital and physical versions of the same game and encourage multi-system ownership and PSN patronage.

If I understand you correctly, that's similar to their UMD PassPort program in Japan:
http://www.theverge.com/gaming/2011/12/1/2604371/playstation-vita-umd-passport-capcom-konami

Capcom, Konami, and others opted out of it (or at least not in yet).

I think unless Sony has the will to bulldoze and pay to guarantee the pricing policy, we may only see a first parties only promo (plus smaller guys).

Would be interesting to see how Konami intend to market "Transfarring" in the west.

 

[patsu]

And now, some limitations:

[At launch,] Vita Web Browser Can't Be Used While Playing Games
http://andriasang.com/comz6e/vita_browser/

When I posted this, I had no way to verify the claim. Now that I tried Vita personally, I think there is a chance andriasang.com has misinterpreted the report.

The (machine translated) original article is here:
http://translate.google.com/transla...ess.co.jp/docs/series/rt/20111202_494915.html

[Correction]
The first occurrence article "Web browser and the game will run at the same time," and representations had been, from the SCE "Vita initial offering, the behavior of Web browsers and games will get exclusive access" in touch with you. Immediately after release, and simultaneous use of the Web browser is not game, I expect the response by the system software update.

It is possible that Sony was referring to multitasking above. i.e., if you're downloading/streaming a video from the web browser and swipe to another game, the web browser will essentially stop its network activities. "We can't run the web browser and the game at the same time".

When I toyed with Vita in SF last weekend, I could start the WebKit browser in the middle of a game, unlike PS3 XMB. Although the lack of memory card prevented me from going further (It asked me to insert a memory card), I could see the WebKit process in the opened applications list. In fact, I could swipe between six applications, including the game and browser. I was happy the swipe animation and tracking felt smooth and snappy, noticeably better than Android 2.*, slightly less sensitive than iOS.

When the game is the active app, I need to click on the "Continue" button to resume. It looks like the web browser can be used in-game, but we can only keep one active app at any time (at launch).

Would love to check it out again after Vita has launched in Japan; hopefully this time with US PSN, memory card, and all social apps enabled.

EDIT:
Sony, please change the polka dot menu and icons. They don't do the underlying system justice.

 

[patsu]

Meanwhile, this study should be useful/applicable for Vita too:

Analyzing the Kindle Fire: UI Challenges for the 7-Inch Tablet
http://www.tested.com/news/analyzing-the-kindle-fire-ui-challenges-for-the-7-inch-tablet/3249/

Vita has a 5 inch screen. Don't fall into the same holes as Fire.

 

[patsu]

First Look: Nico Nico Video PlayStation Vita App
Broadcast live gameplay sessions in an update that's due in 2012.
http://andriasang.com/comyxb/



(Screenshots inside)


They should add this to PS Suite.

Niwango released a trailer for the app...

Streaming Movie Of The Nico Nico Vita App
http://www.siliconera.com/2011/12/06/streaming-movie-of-the-nico-nico-vita-app/

EDIT:
All these supporting game features (e.g. Custom music, broadcast live gameplay sessions, LiveArea, "freeze" and switch between apps and games, ...) must be taking up quite a bit of resources. I am glad they made the memory expandable. Would have been ideal if Sony could guarantee the performance using a standard memory system.

 

[patsu]

Vita Will Allow Multiple PSN Accounts, Sony Says
http://www.wired.com/gamelife/2011/12/vita-accounts/

Speaking to Wired.com at a press event in Manhattan, Sony associate brand marketing manager Crystal MacKenzie said that PlayStation Network accounts will be connected to the Vita’s proprietary memory cards, not the hardware itself. Though you will have to restore the Vita to its default factory settings in order to change the account on each memory card, you can use multiple cards to access multiple PSN accounts on a single Vita system.

“Your PSN ID is bonded to your memory card and your memory card is bonded to your Vita,” MacKenzie said. “So if you wanted to change different PSN users but use the same memory card, you would need to go factory reset.”

Customers will be able to swap cards to use different PSN IDs on the same system, MacKenzie said. If you have more than one memory card, you can register a different PlayStation Network account on each.

“You can also use them both on the same PSN account as well,” she said.

 

[tuna]

Woot! This is great! Vita preorder for tuna, can't wait to play jap Grandia on it! Now all they need to add are Saturn classics!

 

[patsu]

Memory card price in the west may not be final ?
http://kotaku.com/5866690/im-on-board-the-playstation-vita-is-going-to-launch-with-a-bang

The worst blemish on the Vita now is its rumored memory card pricing. The leaked prices range from the affordable to the ridiculous. Thirty bucks for four GBs, $120 for 32, according to GameStop.

The worst blemish on the Vita now is its rumored memory card pricing.
Those memory cards are as close to mandatory as it gets, because, while some game cards will support save files, many won't. And all downloadable games and add-ons will have to go on those pricey little memory sticks. The Sony line on these cards—I heard it from multiple reps this week—is that the rumored prices aren't official, that we should stay tuned and that this isn't a hidden cost after all. That last bit is because they didn't want to jack up the price of the unit by including a stick that might not be the size the player wants, but, let's be serious here, an essentially required card ensures that the Vita won't really cost any sensible shopper $250. It'll cost that plus the cost of the card they want… possibly more than $100 more.

 

[patsu]

http://www.mobilemag.com/2011/12/12/chinese-vita-look-alike-android-gaming-handheld/

China, the land of cheap electronic clones, brings us yet another some-what interesting device to the table, the Yinlips “Android Smart Game Player“. Essentially it is a PS Vita-looking Android device that is intended for gaming and comes pre-loaded with a bunch of emulators and ROMs from the days of the NES, all the way up to the N64.

As far as the hardware is concerned, it’s nothing spectacular featuring a 1.2GHz single core processor, 512MB of DDR2 RAM, and WIFI. It also sports HDMI and a built-in camera. It runs some form of Android

...

Round one starting soon... Sony are you ready ? ^_^

They won't just run Android. Expect "cheap" Windows 8 and WebOS versions too ! 8^P

 

[TheChefO]

http://www.mobilemag.com/2011/12/12/chinese-vita-look-alike-android-gaming-handheld/



Round one starting soon... Sony are you ready ? ^_^

They won't just run Android. Expect "cheap" Windows 8 and WebOS versions too ! 8^P

Wow.

I suppose in being with the times I'm supposed to be for the whole freeware/open-source/anti-corporate/etc...but this really rubs me the wrong way and I hope Sony sues the **** out of them!

People should be paid for their work. Period.

Not paying for their work is akin to free labor which is akin to slavery. And stealing other peoples work is stealing their money which is in some ways the same as having them work for free ... which is akin to ... slavery.

The laissez faire attitude of the Chinese Government over IP is beyond sickening.

/rant

I hope Sony puts an end to this ASAP!

 

[Shifty Geezer]

You don't sue China. They don't pay any attention to international copyright. Sony can get import bans and the like, potentially (depends on what grounds. In this case either illegal emulators or design infringements), but typically these Chinese products are for the Chinese market and region.

 

[Arwin]

If you look carefully though you'll notice it's a PSP rip off, not a Vita rip off. There is just one analog nub,like the PSP. On the other side you have start and select rather than an analog nub, let alone stick. I think there have been PSP rip-off's like this before?

 

[patsu]

Yeap, nonetheless, dual stick Android pads are coming fer sure. ^_^
This is the beginning.

Essentially, Sony needs to do what Miyamoto said in the other thread: Implement something unique and compelling to pull away from the crowd. It can't be a litany of features like dual sticks, back trackpad, LiveArea, blah. It should be an (well, one or more) integrated, end-to-end, universal concept.