It was introduced on the PSP-2000, released back in 2007.
Sony's NeoGeo Pocket's (PSP2/Vita) business/non technical ramifications talk
- Thread starter Farid
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It was introduced on the PSP-2000, released back in 2007.
It certainly was true for the launch of the PSP. That thing went about $100-$200 above RRP at launch from retailers, never mind what it would have done on Ebay. I should know, because I was there, importing one from Japan in 2004, getting it on 17th December. Tempting to do it again, but I know I can wait this time (the advantage of having a kid is that time progresses somehow much faster).
I just paid ~£20 for a 32GB class 10 for my camera.
Rumor: Downloading PSN Games On Vita 40% Cheaper Than Retail
http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/...-vita-40-cheaper-than-retail.aspx?PageIndex=2
http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/...-vita-40-cheaper-than-retail.aspx?PageIndex=2
They're really going to sell Uncharted for $23? I doubt that. 10% off retail (not RRP) would be enough incentive to get many to switch - maybe 25% tops off RRP. Unless they have dramatic anti-2nd-hand measures and need a lower average price because there won't be the trade-in infrastructure.
This along with not having ANY retail boxed games could forge a new piracy free platform.
But as soon as a game/movie/music-cd has a retail boxed version, it is vulnerable to piracy.
Without a means for reading a retail box copy of the media nor the means for a rogue internet connection outside of the trusted servers (or any other storage data connection for the device externally) , there would be a significant curb to piracy which would lure in media producers much like what took place for ipad.
This is the inevitable conclusion for media going forward as content producers need to be compensated for the content they produce and in the digital age, that is the only way to ensure that it happens.
Is it piracy they want to kill or used games market?
I'd probably need more than 25% discount to forego a chance to sell a game used.
Again, if they undercut retail sales of games or even worse, hurt the used games market, then their retail channels will dry up and they may have difficulty distributing enough hardware and accessories.
I'd probably need more than 25% discount to forego a chance to sell a game used.
Again, if they undercut retail sales of games or even worse, hurt the used games market, then their retail channels will dry up and they may have difficulty distributing enough hardware and accessories.
upnorthsox
Veteran
Retailers already crossed that line themselves when they started selling used games.
Yep, retailers can stop selling video game stuff but they do so at the peril of losing the father/son foot traffic and the holiday gift cards. Sony of course can still sell everything online and at their Sony Style stores.
And I only think that's realistically a Gamestop issue. I don't think the Walmarts, Targets and Best Buys of the world will stop stocking Vita hardware over digital distribution.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=33191065&postcount=28
I'm setting up the Siri Proxy on my Mac, and Move.me on a Windows laptop as we speak. Will see if I can think of something to do with Mindstorm, SnapCircuits, and later Arduino. I have no clue yet.
EDIT: For the general public (e.g., my wife), they won't be able to see any value in Vita if it's all about core games. In addition, the adults are giving old phones to their children. These "free" phones (e.g., Should be iPhone 3GS level by now) can play free and cheap games. I have an old iPhone 3GS I can give to my son now too.
EDIT 2: Oh yes btw, can't you make those secure memory card work for us too ? Like protecting our own media so that even if we lost the Vita, no one else could extract user data like our photos from the card.
patsu said:I went to the Vita Hill Social Club this afternoon. It should remain open until Vita launches. The street is a mid-up market shopping area, not crowded like Union Square, which is a big plus. Otherwise, parking would be a freaking nightmare. Anyway, the place is classy and cozy. Went in with my wife and kid.
Too bad their Internet was broken today, so web browser on PC and Vita timed out. The demo Vitas also didn't have PSN account setup. So I couldn't try Internet play even if the Internet connection was up. There was also no memory card in the Vitas, so no luck with the media players. The social apps (FourSquare, Facebook, etc.) were absent from these demo Vitas too. I suppose all these will get resolved once Vita launches in Japan.
What we did try were the games. We sampled LittleBigPlanet, Little Deviant, Sound Shapes, Reality Fighter. They all look like quality products. My son and I like Sound Shapes a lot. IMHO, it's the best game of the lot despite its simplicity. I would definitely buy it when I get a Vita.
LBP is as expected (ILBP series on PS3). Little Deviant was interesting too. What I wanted to try was Gravity Daze, but it's not there.
My wife jumped in when we played Reality Fighter. The AR fighters (created from our photos) were creepy but it was silly fun anyway. I fought with a toilet plunger while my son took a tennis racket.
Other folks tried WipeOut, Modnation Racer, etc. but I am not a racing guy.
They also had Sony's 24" 3D monitor set up there for Uncharted 3. I was pretty mad that they didn't have HMZ-T1 there.
Will probably revisit the place again. Hope they have Internet and PSN set up by then. I really want to eyeball the web browser and the non-games.
The screen is indeed very nice. My wife said it's not as dense as the iPhone 4S display, but it's comfortably bigger and also density is very very close.
The "polka dot" UI looks annoying in screenshots, but functionally, the UI performs its functions very well. All they need to do is to give us a sleek theme. I would be even more happier if they make the polka dot layout into a proper grid.
A few notes about its differences from XMB:
* You can rearrange the buttons or add/remove them like iPhone's "wiggle mode".
* To close an app, you press the PS button once, and then swipe from top-right to bottom-left. It's like tearing a page. The app will be unloaded.
* You can run 6 apps in parallel (I didn't try more). You can switch between them by pressing the PS button once, and then swipe the screen horizontally. If you are in an app, and press the PS button twice, you go into a strip layout mode that gives you a glance of all the opened apps at the same time.
* If you swipe vertically, you can go into the LiveArea, which I didn't get to try since PSN is not set up.
* In some screen shots, you see this quarter circle button at a corner. It's the notification button. Should be there if there are notifications waiting for you.
I bought an iPhone 4S yesterday and have been toying with it. Vita's OS UI is similar, but I still think Sony needs to differentiate itself more. Vita is nice but the press won't give it a rest. Sony should pull out all the stops to add universal RemotePlay, HMZ-T1 integration, a sophisticated PSN, etc. From what I can see now, Vita is a very good and solid start, but they are not out of the woods yet. Sony needs an oomph or wow-factor to silence the critics.
The recent PS3 4.0 firmware update is still the old way of doing things. They thought about their backend process but forgot about the end user experience. The Vita itself is actually closer to Android and iOS. Someone in Sony need to whip the PS3 team more.
I'm setting up the Siri Proxy on my Mac, and Move.me on a Windows laptop as we speak. Will see if I can think of something to do with Mindstorm, SnapCircuits, and later Arduino. I have no clue yet.
EDIT: For the general public (e.g., my wife), they won't be able to see any value in Vita if it's all about core games. In addition, the adults are giving old phones to their children. These "free" phones (e.g., Should be iPhone 3GS level by now) can play free and cheap games. I have an old iPhone 3GS I can give to my son now too.
EDIT 2: Oh yes btw, can't you make those secure memory card work for us too ? Like protecting our own media so that even if we lost the Vita, no one else could extract user data like our photos from the card.
They might stock it, but they won't push it if there's no high margin sales for them. There's no shortage of products Walmart could find for that shelf space.
40% digital discount is unlikely. Unless Sony is moving to points.
Prophecy2k
Veteran
I disagree, as at least here in the UK we see big supermarkets like Tescos and Asda massively undercutting the prices of big games like COD in order to get the VG consumers in store. For the big supermarkets it's not about high margins, its about getting the kids in store, as they'll most likely pick up other items whilst they're in there.
I personally think that if Sony is serious about ensuring Vita's success, then they have to say on a fundamental level "screw the VG retail outlets". Since the Vita is no longer just competing against competitor's platforms that also have to rely on retail partners, the very same that shaft you with used game sales, then they need to push their product through alternative outlets. Supermarkets are the biggest ones, then you have other stores like Argos that will stock Vita regardless as they have never used second-hand games as a revenue stream. Then you have online retailers also who will still stock Vita regardless, and i don't know the numbers but i would imagine that online sales of boxed games through stores like Amazon will be almost as large if not just edging out sales of boxed games from game stores (at least here in the EU anyway).
Ultimately the whole retail distribution and sales model for portable games doesn't work. And for Vita to be relevant, talk less of even being successful Sony needs to break away from the retail/used-games mess that would ultimately sink their portable business. Throwing all hands in the air and saying "f" the retailers by selling through their PSN store at real, meaningful discounted rates would mean that Vita would be a much more appealing portable gaming proposition to most people in todays world. Such consumers that will be in the market for the device would find it anyway, even if the big game stores refused to stock it. However considering that there are already enough alternatives to the existing game stores that like to think they hold a monopoly, consumers in the market for a Vita will not have to look to hard anyway.
DuckThor Evil
Legend
40% less sounds about right what the discount should be in terms of what the customer actually is or isn't getting. I hope this is true.
Prophecy2k
Veteran
One has to think of it this way, if there are no retailer margins and physical distribution costs baked into the price (as with retail boxed games) then a ~40% saving sounds about right to me in terms of what the consumer should be seeing. Sony and other publishers of Vita games could very well be seeing the same, if not slightly more, per title profits for DD Vita titles sold at 60% of the RRP (recommended retail price).
I know i'd buy way more games off PSN day one for a Vita at £18 - £22, than i ever have with my PSP. At the moment i wait for PSN sales to buy games for my PSPGo as i refuse to pay over £20 for a game that looks worse than a PS2 game.
Price breakdowns I've seen in the past haven't suggested to me %40 overhead for retail and distribution. something like 25% retailer margins (which is RRP, not what it's sold for where retailers competitively price) and a few dollars manufacturing and distribution. The amount you can save by cutting out the middle man should come under 40%. A lower price should see more sales, so that may be part of the pricing policy especially where it cuts out resales. To actually sell DD ahead of disc sales, I reckon a 20% lower price would be enough to convince a lot while providing a higher return per sale to the publishers who really need more revenue per game if games are to get better. Of course Apple pricing may have forced publishers to reevaluate their pricing policies, and maybe much cheaper games sold at higher volumes are the way forwards?
EDIT: this is a reply to prophecy, not Shifty, with whom I agree.
It is never that simple though. Retailers have an advantage in that they sometimes get discounts for a guaranteed sale. Digital distribution costs also aren't zero - they aren't nearly as 'fire-and-forget' as printing a disc is, because users download and can keep downloading the game, there is licence management, etc.
Anyway, it seems that Sony has upped the ante recently with digital distribution, with many titles going online, and more often now also day and date or within a week of retail release, at the same price (though retailers still discount below that price regularly). I don't think though that at any time in the near future you will see that digital version is guaranteed to undercut any retail price, as retailers can do promotion stunts that they lose money on, dump excess stock etc.
Having everything released on Vita both retail and on PSN for 'normal' prices would already be a great start. I think for me personally a development where a retail purchase includes access to the digital version would also be interesting, as then I have the best of both worlds when that's what I want. For instance if a game like uncharted is 4GB, I am not sure that I would necessarily be very happy with a digital download version of that. That would mean that I could hold 7 games on my memory card at most even if I were using a 32GB one, let alone a smaller one.
On the other hand, if that were something like, say, Gran Turismo Vita, or navigation software, or whetever, a title I was guaranteed to play pretty much on-and-off the rest of my life, I'd probably prefer to have it in my Vita all the time, while being able to swap in the occasional big RPG retail cart, so to speak.
It is never that simple though. Retailers have an advantage in that they sometimes get discounts for a guaranteed sale. Digital distribution costs also aren't zero - they aren't nearly as 'fire-and-forget' as printing a disc is, because users download and can keep downloading the game, there is licence management, etc.
Anyway, it seems that Sony has upped the ante recently with digital distribution, with many titles going online, and more often now also day and date or within a week of retail release, at the same price (though retailers still discount below that price regularly). I don't think though that at any time in the near future you will see that digital version is guaranteed to undercut any retail price, as retailers can do promotion stunts that they lose money on, dump excess stock etc.
Having everything released on Vita both retail and on PSN for 'normal' prices would already be a great start. I think for me personally a development where a retail purchase includes access to the digital version would also be interesting, as then I have the best of both worlds when that's what I want. For instance if a game like uncharted is 4GB, I am not sure that I would necessarily be very happy with a digital download version of that. That would mean that I could hold 7 games on my memory card at most even if I were using a 32GB one, let alone a smaller one.
On the other hand, if that were something like, say, Gran Turismo Vita, or navigation software, or whetever, a title I was guaranteed to play pretty much on-and-off the rest of my life, I'd probably prefer to have it in my Vita all the time, while being able to swap in the occasional big RPG retail cart, so to speak.
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