Sony Gamer's Day 2008 (May 6, 2008)

[rabidrabbit]

I wonder why they've decided to add so many saturated primary colors. Red Helghast goggles, blue lights on the human soldiers, green targeting reticule on the gun, etc. Kinda ruins the mood of the setting, doesn't it?

In my opinion it doesn't.
I'm happy the fps games start showing more colours than just shades of gray, brown and metallic blue. Even grass and trees in most fps games is dull green, while in reality even in a battlefield, if they are not burn, they shoud be luscious green. And fire is also dull orange-brown without real glow.
It's understandable that war games have aimed at the look of films such as Saving Private Ryan, but I think it's time to move on.
Current gen makes more colours possible, why not use them.
I don't think KZ2 overuses primary colours, distinguishing enemies with some bright colour spots that fit the art, improves playability too.
The few splotches of primary colour don't make KZ2 look shiny happy.

 

[deepbrown]

In my opinion it doesn't.
I'm happy the fps games start showing more colours than just shades of gray, brown and metallic blue. Even grass and trees in most fps games is dull green, while in relaity even in a battlefield, if they are not burn, they shoud be luscious green. And fire is also dull orange-brown without real glow.
It's understandable that war games have aimed at the look of films such as Saving Private Ryan, but I think it's time to move on.
Current gen makes more colours possible, why not use them.
I don't think KZ2 overuses primary colours, distinguishing enemies with some bright colour spots that fit the art, improves plaability too.
The few splotches of primary colour don't make KZ2 look shiny happy.

Yeah I really like the added colour to the grey - makes the environment look all the more oppressive.

 

[archangelmorph]

I wonder why they've decided to add so many saturated primary colors. Red Helghast goggles, blue lights on the human soldiers, green targeting reticule on the gun, etc. Kinda ruins the mood of the setting, doesn't it?

I also don't like how there's no use of cover in the movie, he's just shooting the still standing enemies without even trying to hide. Is COD4 like this, too? You certainly get toasted in Halo 3 even in normal difficulty within a few seconds if you keep showing your face around like this...
Cover's just got to be a part of shooters now that Gears, Uncharted and GTA4 (to name an X360, a PS3 and a multiplatform game each have all emphasized it.

No offense Laa-Yosh but it *really* does sound like your almost trying too hard to shoot the game down..

Colours look great to me & really create a *mood* I'm sure many find particularly asthetically pleasing.. Not to your tastes? fair enough but I certainly think it helps create a visual distiction lacking in most "brown-washed-out-super-bloom" games of late..

From the first two videos released on Gamersyde I can see the character ducking behind cover practically most of the time.. There doesn't seem to be a "stick-to-wall" animation at work in the latest videos but i destinctly remember it being there in one of the older vids (the same one where one of the devs does commentary on how there new cover system is going to play a big part in the game..) so i'll probably put it down to the player in the new vids either not knowing how to use it or maybe it's been disabled..?

As for your comments on the necessity of cover systems in recent games..?

I *really* don't agree with you on the point of Halo 3 considering you can play confidently without resorting to duck-&-cover gameplay & most people i've seen play any of the Halo games hasn't ever focused on it..
Cover systems are nice as they do add a sense of realism & logic to gunplay but depending on how the game is balanced they really aren't a pre-requisite for any game..
I do agree however that a game like KZ2 shouldhit a solid implementation because of the style of the game but moreso because it was a large part of mechanics of the previous title than anything else..

 

[deepbrown]

No offense Laa-Yosh but it *really* does sound like your almost trying too hard to shoot the game down..

Colours look great to me & really create a *mood* I'm sure many find particularly asthetically pleasing.. Not to your tastes? fair enough but I certainly think it helps create a visual distiction lacking in most "brown-washed-out-super-bloom" games of late..

From the first two videos released on Gamersyde I can see the character ducking behind cover practically most of the time.. There doesn't seem to be a "stick-to-wall" animation at work in the latest videos but i destinctly remember it being there in one of the older vids (the same one where one of the devs does commentary on how there new cover system is going to play a big part in the game..) so i'll probably put it down to the player in the new vids either not knowing how to use it or maybe it's been disabled..?

As for your comments on the necessity of cover systems in recent games..?

I *really* don't agree with you on the point of Halo 3 considering you can play confidently without resorting to duck-&-cover gameplay & most people i've seen play any of the Halo games hasn't ever focused on it..
Cover systems are nice as they do add a sense of realism & logic to gunplay but depending on how the game is balanced they really aren't a pre-requisite for any game..
I do agree however that a game like KZ2 shouldhit a solid implementation because of the style of the game but moreso because it was a large part of mechanics of the previous title than anything else..

The stick to the wall is in there - used a lot in the Jeux videos. I expect it's on Easy mode. Moreover, I don't expect the AI system to be finished yet. Here's a 720p encoded video http://www.gamersyde.com/stream_7104_en.html

 

[deepbrown]

Motorstorm 2 technology http://www.gamersyde.com/stream_7095_en.html

 

[archangelmorph]

The stick to the wall is in there - used a lot in the Jeux videos. I expect it's on Easy mode. Moreover, I don't expect the AI system to be finished yet. Here's a 720p encoded video http://www.gamersyde.com/stream_7104_en.html

Ah I must have missed that..

 

[Laa-Yosh]

No offense Laa-Yosh but it *really* does sound like your almost trying too hard to shoot the game down..

What, is it a problem now that I've preferred the previous look of the game?

I *really* don't agree with you on the point of Halo 3 considering you can play confidently without resorting to duck-&-cover gameplay & most people i've seen play any of the Halo games hasn't ever focused on it..

Even Halo1 is continously increasing the precision of the AI characters' aim based on how much time the player spends without cover. It's reasonable to assume that Halo3 does the same at least.

 

[Neb]

Yeah the Ai will surely improve a bit atleast, I mean it is alpha. Though There doesnt seem IMO to be some improvements from last year to this year regarding AI (as what can be seen visually). Neverthless they may finish the AI later on and just now concentrate on otehr aspects.

Btw this is a (framebuffer?) grab of KZ2 from the demonstration. Maybe good for those asking Quaz about res and AA/method.

http://i28.tinypic.com/ziu2yt.jpg

 

[rabidrabbit]

How are you people always able to judge the AI based on some short trailers or gampelay videos.
I, personally, have never been able to do that
To be honest, I'm not that sensitive to "bad" AI in games, it's not someting I rate highly in a fps game, where the enemy usually has an advantage anyway because I'm hugely outnumbered.

 

[Neb]

How are you people always able to judge the AI based on some short trailers or gampelay videos.
I, personally, have never been able to do that

You can see in a gameplay session how the AI reacts to player encounter. What does he do, how does he engage and how does he protect himself. IMO good AI is AI that wants to survive not AI that exists to give the player something to shot on along the way.

 

[archangelmorph]

What, is it a problem now that I've preferred the previous look of the game?

Not at all..

Even Halo1 is continously increasing the precision of the AI characters' aim based on how much time the player spends without cover. It's reasonable to assume that Halo3 does the same at least.

Sure!

But the game doesn't really encourage you to sit behind a single piece of cover (for any prolonged period of time) either as the AI flanks & throws plasma grenades at you to force you to constantly keep moving..

Then there's the flood..

 

[patsu]

You can see in a gameplay session how the AI reacts to player encounter. What does he do, how does he engage and how does he protect himself. IMO good AI is AI that wants to survive not AI that exists to give the player something to shot on along the way.

Like RFOM, enemies take cover, strafe, charge and flank by working together. All these signs are missing from the build. I guess they want people to walk around and admire the environment rather than getting pinned down in some obscure corner staring at wall textures closeup. There are a limited number of kiosks showing KZ2. They should run as many journalists through the game as possible (instead of having people hogging the stations due to gameplay).

For AI and Multiplayer, the devs hinted that they were working on it. We will undoubtedly see them in a future show. Europe release is still a good 9 months away.



[It's a real pity the gaming industry spent so much good technologies on destructive and sad theme (War !) ? Why can't we have the same lighting, character modelling and advanced AI for em... say, DOA Extreme Beach Volleyball or something more pleasant ? BTW, the Parkour game concept is out of this world. Reminds me of the Matrix's training ground]

 

[RenegadeRocks]

One thing I notice which has changed very well is that, everything is so smooth this time ! No hiccups at all ! The textures have gone high res, the ground looks awesome, but still everything is Butter smooth ! Guerilla has delivered, boy !they sure were not speaking out of their hats !

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Even Halo1 is continously increasing the precision of the AI characters' aim based on how much time the player spends without cover. It's reasonable to assume that Halo3 does the same at least.

As I mentioned in the KZ thread, to whit all such discussion should probably be taken now, often demos aren't the real deal with things like God mode, and journalists too busy asking questions to properly play the game. Taking cover as a mechanic was in there, the players shown so far just haven't cared to use it. And the AI could well be in easy mode - the players have still died even playing stupidly. They wouldn't get very far if the AI was aggressive! So I think you're looking to deeply into what's a light showcase rather than a true gameplay demo, like lots of demo vids.

As for the visual style, I like it. The vibrant colours contrast with the monotone drudgery of the archetypal next-gen shooter. Those splashes of colour including the explosions, along with the lens-flare, break up the dull look of title like Resistance, without having to break apart the dull battle-zone look in the same way H3 did, resorting to vibrant colours throughout. KZ2 represents a good compromise between both styles IMO.

 

[Gradthrawn]

I wonder why they've decided to add so many saturated primary colors. Red Helghast goggles, blue lights on the human soldiers, green targeting reticule on the gun, etc. Kinda ruins the mood of the setting, doesn't it?

Wait, weren't the Helghast eyes and green targeting scope there in even the original CG trailer? They were both in the original game, if memory serves me. Not sure about the blue though.

 

[Nesh]

Yes they were. Although you couldnt exactly target withing your green scope. You just zoomed the image.

I think the blue lights werent on soldiers though. But why complain about that when Gears of War had such similar things but no one complained? It actually won an award in art direction

 

[deepbrown]

As I mentioned in the KZ thread, to whit all such discussion should probably be taken now, often demos aren't the real deal with things like God mode, and journalists too busy asking questions to properly play the game. Taking cover as a mechanic was in there, the players shown so far just haven't cared to use it. And the AI could well be in easy mode - the players have still died even playing stupidly. They wouldn't get very far if the AI was aggressive! So I think you're looking to deeply into what's a light showcase rather than a true gameplay demo, like lots of demo vids.

As for the visual style, I like it. The vibrant colours contrast with the monotone drudgery of the archetypal next-gen shooter. Those splashes of colour including the explosions, along with the lens-flare, break up the dull look of title like Resistance, without having to break apart the dull battle-zone look in the same way H3 did, resorting to vibrant colours throughout. KZ2 represents a good compromise between both styles IMO.

And Killzone's colour scheme is Red and Black - I love the red accents, with blood, eyes, bullet holes - really artistic. Add the colours in the lighting (greens, reds, oranges and yellows) and it's actually pretty beautiful for a grey game! And it's also incredibly cinematic to be so confident with your colour scheme - reminds me of Schindlers List (black and white with red accents)

 

[Gradthrawn]

Yes they were. Although you couldnt exactly target withing your green scope. You just zoomed the image.

I think the blue lights werent on soldiers though. But why complain about that when Gears of War had such similar things but no one complained? It actually won an award in art direction

I don't think Laa-Yosh is complaining, just pointing out what he perceived as a change in art direction which he doesn't seem to like. Which perplexed me because I thought the changes he noted were there since the first footage. So, I'm wondering if there's something in particular about the colors he's referring to.

 

[Nesh]

I don't think Laa-Yosh is complaining, just pointing out what he perceived as a change in art direction which he doesn't seem to like. Which perplexed me because I thought the changes he noted were there since the first footage. So, I'm wondering if there's something in particular about the colors he's referring to.

They were indeed in every footage. I dont see what annoys him either, since the colors at least to me add well to the overall looks of the game and distracts (in a good way) from the great use of gray. I dont understand how such small amounts of green, blue or red ruin the mood of the setting? Actually I see the green targeting reticule and the glowing red helghast eyes as a trademark visual look of the franchise. If these are ruining the mood then the excessive use in other games such as Gears or Halo should have been much more annoying. Killzone always had them and they kept them at a balanced minimum. Even the CGI trailer that blew everyone away had them

 

[MJP]

Btw this is a (framebuffer?) grab of KZ2 from the demonstration. Maybe good for those asking Quaz about res and AA/method.

http://i28.tinypic.com/ziu2yt.jpg

It's definitely still 1280 x 720. Also looks like it's still the 2x Quincunx AA they mentioned they were using in that .pdf about their engine.