SCE confirm 80GB PS3 in Japan (Oct. 30) has 65nm RSX

one

Unruly Member
Veteran
http://av.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/20081023/rt074.htm

This is a regular interview with developers at the SCE Network Platform Division about the new PSP and PS3 operating systems. The interview itself has some interesting topics such as using computing resources in PS3 to enhance what PSP can do etc but not much revelation. However, at the very end of article, it has an interesting info about PS3 hardware straight out of SCE PR. All 80GB PS3 that are going to be out in Japan on Oct 30th and after have 65nm RSX. For the Japanese market this is the first introduction of an 80GB model.

These are the models I mentioned in my earlier post.
http://watch.impress.co.jp/game/docs/20081009/scejp04.jpg
http://watch.impress.co.jp/game/docs/20081009/scejp05.jpg
http://watch.impress.co.jp/game/docs/20081009/scejp06.jpg

But the power consumption in the official spec stays the same (280W). The article suspects it may run cooler in realworld tests.
 
Some interesting stuff in there. The use of Virtual Memory and the 2.8x speed increase in Javascript usage. Googles translation is somewhat amusing though "...and the memory of the war is a fact that has not changed.", that's in relation to VM usage!
 
There seems to be some new info. I can't read Japanese very well, but it seems that:
(Take these with a healthy supply of salt)

* PS3 Flash is based off the PC version, not Flash Lite. Flash 10 may be considered in the future. For now, Flash 9 is it.

* Web video and Javascript playback has improved by 2.8 to 3 times. Implementation still restricted by 256Mb RAM. Flash H.264 video plays in a separate SPU.

* OS occupies 43Mb. Firmware 2.0 introduced HDD-based virtual memory.

The article also talks about Chroma Upsampling and why it's not implemented for BDMV.

The video search in PS3 is more advanced than PSP's because it supports multiple format (i.e., you can search into multiple video format).

The PSP-PS3 ad hoc party feature will be available on 30th October. It seems that the feature will be released as a separate download to avoid capacity issues (if everyone has it). I believe the ad hoc party infrastructure is only announced and available in Japan.
 
What about...Price cuts??

If they are after profitability in this climate, we may not want to expect one -- unless they change strategy.

In this scenario, the key thing to watch is not Xbox 360 sales unit but the PS2 and PSP unit and software sales. As long as they are a healthy level above PS3, Sony should be able to make it.

The most surprising thing last quarter (to me) is that they are able to make money despite offering a free network service and selling the console at a loss. I expect the financials to go up and down for a few more quarters because of their not-so-reliable game release schedule; and not-so-well-planned network expansion.
 
It sounds like its just this model of the ps3 so we have no idea how many they are shipping and to what countrys. I doubt we will see a price decrease untill early next year when these models ship eveywhere. THe majority of this holiday sales will be the older 90nm rsx
 
It's just something that has been in the pipeline along. It was first revealed in the Playstation Business Summit in June: http://www.edge-online.com/news/ps3-graphics-chip-goes-65nm-fall

Yes, you're right. That's old news.

And there already is a thread about that on this forum: http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?t=48053.

But now, with this news, there actually is a more precise date than 'Fall 2008'.

Now it's 30-Oct-2008. At least confirmed for Japan.

Unfortunately it's not confirmed for other regions, yet.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Do we know that the other 80GB PS3 does contain the 90nm RSX?

Yes, they use legacy parts. And I wouldn't expect non-Japanese regions to get the 65nm RSX until existing SKU supplies are run through.

On the side, thanks for the find and info One!
 
Yes, they use legacy parts. And I wouldn't expect non-Japanese regions to get the 65nm RSX until existing SKU supplies are run through.

On the side, thanks for the find and info One!

So I wonder what makes up the ~20W or so difference from the 40GB?
 
Don't think so. Sony just cut their profit outlook by half but stated their game and movie will continue with their previous forecasts.

Price cuts do not necessarily equal reduction in profits in forecasts.

In this scenario, the key thing to watch is not Xbox 360 sales unit but the PS2 and PSP unit and software sales. As long as they are a healthy level above PS3, Sony should be able to make it.

Oh but it is always important to take competition into consideration especially if you do the right thing and avoid having a very short term horizon
 
Oh but it is always important to take competition into consideration especially if you do the right thing and avoid having a very short term horizon

I think they are. They have kept pace with the 360 in the US this year and the UK this past year, so there has been no real need to cut prices below what they have been. Keeping pace is fine while their aim is chasing profitability.

At some point that focus will have to switch to chasing sales and reducing the gap, the question is whether or not that will happen in time for the Spring price cut (i.e. will it be a minor or aggressive cut?). The recent 57% reduction in fiscal year earnings forecast for Sony electronics would suggest that it will be on the minor side :smile:
 
Okay, some more translation for the WatchImpress article. Stolen from GAF:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=13352207&postcount=1703

SCE (Umemura), on the reason for implementing simultaneous updates for PS3 and PSP:

With respect to the PSP, enabling direct access to the PS Store was the biggest change. But doing so required support on the PS Store server-side. While there were changes on the PS3 side as well with PlayStation Network account management and other functions were moved over to the XMB, since the same servers are used for the PSP, we wanted the changes to the PSP to coincide with those on the PS3 side (in the interests of maintaining compatibility).

SCE (Noda), on DRM for downloadable contents:

“Device Authentication” is carried out when transferring content. While this was implemented in the past when transferring from the PS3 or PC, in the case of direct access (to the store) from the PSP, this authentication is carried out on a per unit basis when downloading. This device authentication is something that authenticates the PSP unit. Therefore, even a memory stick holding this data is inserted into another unauthenticated PSP, it won’t run.

SCE (Takase) On PS3 Browser:

Even using our own benchmarks, the Java Script execution speed is 2.8 times faster than the previous version, and is of a comparable level to viewing on PCs… while it loses out to browsers such as Google Chrome that have made recent advances, we believe it is faster than regular browsers such as IE7.

The PS3’s memory has always posed problems. However, since we have supported “virtual memory” using the hard disk from Version 2.0 onwards, this has been eased to some extent. Even so, since accessing data from the HDD reduces speed, the fact that there is a struggle with memory hasn’t changed.

Playback of H.264 content from within Flash is handled through an independent process on an SPU. Processing different aspects of the web browser independently has the characteristic of making it easier to improve frame rates. While I’d stop short of saying we will eliminate all dropped frames in the future, this can be considered a strength unique to the PS3.

SCE (Takase) on Chroma Up-sampling:

Even up to now we have been doing 4:2:0-to-4:2:2 up-sampling. But we introduced features to produce an even higher quality output this time. While this will of course have some effect on HD picture quality, since HD by nature is higher quality, it will not be that noticeable. For SD, however, you will clearly see the effects of the improved picture quality.

Q: Specifically what kind of algorithm processing is being carried out?

A (Takase): When converting from 4:2:0 to 4:2:2, we carry out a kind of chroma upsampling processing that adjusts to movement in the footage. A special method unique to the PS3 is used to process the video. However, please allow me to keep the technical specifics of this undisclosed.

Q: Why can’t Blu-Ray discs recorded with the BDMV format use the chroma upsampling function?

A (Takase): If this is requested by customers we will consider supporting it, but as always, we do not intend to implement features as console functions if users cannot experience any benefits from those features.

SCE (Matsui) on future firmware updates:

In future updates, there are thoughts of raising the level of interaction, in the sense of “interactive entertainment”. Among those ideas are enabling the PSP to cope with more processing while using computational resources on the PS3 side for areas where the PSP lacks resources, so we think that interaction between the two systems will be possible by having them successfully complement each other .

In addition, as with Life with PlayStation, we take the approach of making the PS3 something people will use from when they wake up, like switching it on to watch the news in the morning. Since we believe that there must still be many areas in with both the PS3 and PSP can be of use in people’s daily lives, we want to continue to make firmware updates with this perspective in mind.

SCE (Umemura) on the lack of ad-hoc WIFI support on the 20 GB PS3:

At present, an add-in such as a USB WIFI adapter is difficult. So for the 20GB model, there is unfortunately no solution.
 
Doesn't this mean Sony has actually beaten Microsoft out the door with a 65nm GPU?

We keep hearing rumors about a 65nm Xenos and the Jasper chip set. We've been hearing rumor about it since last year. But nothing seems to have physically materialized out in the retail channels. The shipping models are still Falcon based which is still using the 90nm Xenos GPU afaik.
 
Doesn't this mean Sony has actually beaten Microsoft out the door with a 65nm GPU?

We keep hearing rumors about a 65nm Xenos and the Jasper chip set. We've been hearing rumor about it since last year. But nothing seems to have physically materialized out in the retail channels. The shipping models are still Falcon based which is still using the 90nm Xenos GPU afaik.

isn't sony the one that invested billions into new fabs for cell and rsx. So shouldn't we have expected it.
 
What about...Price cuts??

IMHO from a strategic point of view it makes more sense to drop prices on PS3 next year AFTER this holiday season is over because its clear that the console is going to be purchased and people will be thinking about how the console was $600 last year as opposed to $400 and $500 for this year depending on which PS3 is being purchased.

Its to be expected that Microsoft is able to cut the price on their XBox 360 console with their Arcade (formerly Core) because the console lacks a HD drive, a hard drive that would have to be purchased separately and most important of all because of the recent capability of Jasper's 65nm GPU helping Microsoft cut costs and increase production.

Price cuts do not necessarily equal reduction in profits in forecasts.

Oh but it is always important to take competition into consideration especially if you do the right thing and avoid having a very short term horizon

And because although Microsoft could have gotten away with not dropping the price, they had to as a way of countering how PS3s were outselling XBox 360s for most of the months of 2008.

Its already expected that the gift purchasing consumer will be buying alot of consoles this year reguardless of price cuts and as always it is always expected that after January console sales will drop so a price cut will be much more effective at that point and time instead of dropping now and facing the inevitable slowdown in purchases once the holiday season is over.

Doesn't this mean Sony has actually beaten Microsoft out the door with a 65nm GPU?

We keep hearing rumors about a 65nm Xenos and the Jasper chip set. We've been hearing rumor about it since last year. But nothing seems to have physically materialized out in the retail channels. The shipping models are still Falcon based which is still using the 90nm Xenos GPU afaik.

They definetly have beaten Microsoft to the 65nm GPU where it counts by being able to make an official dated release announcement.

The problem surrounding the 65nm Xenos or Jasper mainboard confimation is imho that Microsoft's well known Red Ring of Death fiasco is keeping them from making it official in fears that current XBox 360 customers that are getting repairs done to their consoles and are still getting older console revisions as replacements might end up making demands over the phone to Microsoft's XBox 360 service center.

All over the internet there are people trying to narrow down and confirm Jasper to the point that many are simply just assuming that they will actually get a Jasper revision depending on some of the clues that are being talked about on internet forums. There are also alot of older XBox 360 owners who are simply just buying the $199 X360 Arcade unit in the hopes of getting a Jasper to avoid a console death with their earlier revision that could be on its last legs.

http://anandtech.com/gadgets/showdoc.aspx?i=3440

As a matter of fact Anandtech has revised an earlier article they did on their search into confirming a retail Jasper revision.

isn't sony the one that invested billions into new fabs for cell and rsx. So shouldn't we have expected it.

Reguardless, Sony owned its own fabs when making Playstation 1 since 1994 and they owned their own chip fabs for making the Emotion Engine and Graphics Synthesizer so it is no surprise:

That Sony would own their own chip fabs for making RSX as well as using allied fabs however it is well known that Cell BE is being fabbed by IBM at their Fishkill, New York plant as well as the Toshiba plant in Japan since Cell BE is really a Sony, Toshiba, IBM collaboration.

Further, now that RSX is confirmed for installation as a 65nm GPU the next thing to wait for is the IBM confirmation next year that they are able to ship 45nm Cell BEs and so on.
 
Back
Top