PS3 Cell, RSX, SDK, OS, Linux INFO

Discussion in 'Console Technology' started by DieH@rd, Sep 26, 2006.

  1. DieH@rd

    Legend Veteran

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2006
    Messages:
    6,079
    Likes Received:
    2,010
    Coppied from neogaf thread :)

    original japanese articles:
    http://pc.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/2006/0922/kaigai302.htm
    http://pc.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/2006/0926/kaigai303.htm
    http://pc.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/2006/0926/kaigai304.htm
    http://pc.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/2006/0926/kaigai305.htm

    And a traslation by Doctor_No
    Comments?
     
  2. babcat

    Regular

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2006
    Messages:
    656
    Likes Received:
    45
    The important thing to discover is you can run any application on the Linux OS. For example, could I go out and purchase a Linux based OS with a full graphical user interface and run it on my PS3? And if so, would it utilize the power of SPEs and not simply the PPE which is relatively weak compared to the SPEs? That is the important issue.
     
  3. pcostabel

    Newcomer

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2002
    Messages:
    129
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Culver City, CA
    The Linux stuff will work exactly as with the PS2: a special PS3 distribution with no BD access. You will be able to recompile any apps that are open source. Of course no other distribution will work if is not ported specifically to PS3.
     
  4. patsu

    Legend

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2005
    Messages:
    27,614
    Likes Received:
    60
    I hope for tighter integration between XMB and Linux.

    I'm also interested to find out how Cure@Home works. Apparently, it can run while PS3 is idle. So there should be some sort of OS mechanism to schedule idle tasks too.

    Thanks to DieH@rd for the OP.
     
  5. SPM

    SPM
    Regular

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2005
    Messages:
    639
    Likes Received:
    16
    It will be different from PS2 because of the SPE reserved for DRM. Sony can allow Linux access to the BD drive without blowing the box open if they want. They may restrict the number of SPEs or reduce graphics rendering speed or something like that to discourage development of high end games running on Linux, although the fact that Linux will take up a lot of the available RAM will discourage this anyway.
     
  6. PSman

    Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2006
    Messages:
    302
    Likes Received:
    2
    Very interesting, especially on the RSX and Xenos part.

    I think it is safe to say that RSX=Xenos, both GPU have their own advantage and disadvantage:smile:
     
  7. joebloggs

    Newcomer

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2005
    Messages:
    163
    Likes Received:
    3
    Yeh they both have their advantages.

    RSX has more shader power.
    Xenos has the EDRAM for bandwidth.
     
  8. SPM

    SPM
    Regular

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2005
    Messages:
    639
    Likes Received:
    16
    Xenon/Xenos also has memory bandwidth issues.

    Cell and RSX have separate 128 bit busses to XDR system RAM and GDR, hence not contention between RSX accessing GDR and Cell accessing XDR, and a little more than double the total bandwidth.

    However Xbos360 has a 128 bit bus to the unified 512MB system RAM and both Xenon and Xenos have to contend access it.

    How much of a bandwidth is this for both Xenon and Xenos?
     
  9. DieH@rd

    Legend Veteran

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2006
    Messages:
    6,079
    Likes Received:
    2,010
    and here is final part of translation:

    and:

    So, ps3 OS will be stored to flash memory... I wonder how big it is?
     
  10. SPM

    SPM
    Regular

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2005
    Messages:
    639
    Likes Received:
    16
    The image actually shows Linux on the HDD http://pc.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/2006/0926/kaigai303.htm
    - and a good thing too since flash memory is very slow compared to HDD for reads (and even slower for writes).


    The PS3 OS they are talking about is the PS3 hypervisor, DRM and menuing system.
     
  11. Angelcurio

    Regular

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2006
    Messages:
    325
    Likes Received:
    9
    So, the OS wont be using part of the main ram anymore?
     
  12. StefanS

    StefanS meandering Velosoph
    Veteran

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2002
    Messages:
    3,608
    Likes Received:
    75
    Location:
    Vienna
    You're confusing something...

    physical storage != RAM use
     
  13. KOA

    KOA
    Newcomer

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2006
    Messages:
    18
    Likes Received:
    0
    Where does it say RSX has more shader power??? It does say that X360 devs are having a hard time getting shader performance currently, but that it will change once they get more familiar with USA.
     
  14. Arwin

    Arwin Now Officially a Top 10 Poster
    Moderator Legend

    Joined:
    May 17, 2006
    Messages:
    17,678
    Likes Received:
    1,196
    Location:
    Maastricht, The Netherlands
    And I reckon the same goes for the bandwidth - except that 360 developers seem to have as much trouble getting much out of the EDRAM as the PS3 coders have getting used to making good use of the XDR/Cell bandwidth. Maybe more, we'll see today!
     
  15. KOA

    KOA
    Newcomer

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2006
    Messages:
    18
    Likes Received:
    0
    Both consoles seem to be on an equal footing on paper. It's too close to call at this point. At this point, specs sheets are useless. We have to look at the games. After TGS it's Sony 1 Microsoft 0 (although Blue Dragon and Lost Odessey look better than some PS3 games at the show), but PS3 games have that "LOOK" that has less to do with technical stuff and more to do with the developers. PS3 developers know how to add that "next gen filter" while X360 devs outside of Capcom and Epic just add more polygons and textures and have that plastic look.

    But, I don't want to make a fool out of myself before X06, so I'll just shut up about how "bad" X360 games look in comparison to polished PS3 stuff.
     
  16. Bobbler

    Bobbler Shazbot!
    Veteran

    Joined:
    May 22, 2005
    Messages:
    1,827
    Likes Received:
    29
    Location:
    Minneapolis, MN
    I'm not quite sure I really understand that argument... isn't the whole point of unified shading to alleviate any issues with having to match a specified ratio of VS/PS? There shouldn't be any inherent issues with trying to max out a unified architecture, it does that itself -- that's the whole point of it, it has an inherent flexibility so developers could throw whatever they wanted at it within a certain max amount of ALU performance (between VS and PS). If they are having ALU performance issues, that isn't likely to be the kind of thing that will drastically change (beyond the average change in programming competence that comes over the lifetime of a platform -- which is seemingly quite a bit). If they are having issues with USA, then they'd have equal or possibly more issues with a non-unified architecture; the same improvements would apply to both.

    I'm not trying to say RSX is more powerful than Xenos or anything, I just don't buy the "leaning the USA" as any sort of special case that only applies to Xenos. I think both GPUs are pretty close to each other (different bottlenecks at any given point, but definitely same year parts).
     
  17. SPM

    SPM
    Regular

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2005
    Messages:
    639
    Likes Received:
    16
    I always considered the "plastic" look of Xbox1 games compared to the PS2 was down to th fact that PS2 was good at particle effects, while Xbox1 wasn't. So PS2 developers used in particle effects a lot and Xbox1 developers didn't. It may be the same with PS3 vs XBox360. The SPEs should be good at particle effects while Xenon is less good, although it might also be handled by the GPUs in this gen.
     
  18. Angelcurio

    Regular

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2006
    Messages:
    325
    Likes Received:
    9
    Sorry, i confused eveything when i read it this morning.

    *notes that wont post anymore before drinking my coffee on the job*

    Now, in a real note. I always thought that the OS was going to be located on a reserved space of the HDD. That was prior the sony announcement of the users being able to swap the default HDD for any SATA drive.
     
    #18 Angelcurio, Sep 27, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 27, 2006
  19. Dr. Nick

    Regular

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2005
    Messages:
    676
    Likes Received:
    1
    I wonder how many devs still use the Xenos in a non unified way. I remember it being implied that a dev could still use it in a non unified way.
     
  20. Shifty Geezer

    Shifty Geezer uber-Troll!
    Moderator Legend

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2004
    Messages:
    40,495
    Likes Received:
    10,866
    Location:
    Under my bridge
    There's a difference between system OS and the user operating system. It's like Amiga's OS was on it's kickstart ROMs, but the OS people used, AmigaDOS and Workbench, was loaded from disc. PS3OS system OS is in Flash, Linux or other user OS's is on HDD, and Linux (supposedly, still not confirmed!) comes preinstalled on the HDD.
     
Loading...

Share This Page

  • About Us

    Beyond3D has been around for over a decade and prides itself on being the best place on the web for in-depth, technically-driven discussion and analysis of 3D graphics hardware. If you love pixels and transistors, you've come to the right place!

    Beyond3D is proudly published by GPU Tools Ltd.
Loading...