SCE interviews (Kutaragi, Kawanishi)

[scooby_dooby]

I could care less about PVR, as i already have one.

Well you obviously cared enough to get one in the first place.

I could just buy a PVR, but the problem is there's no TiVO in canada, and PVR's all cost an arm and a leg. I already have a PC with a decent CPU and large HDD, as do most people, and capture cards are cheap. Oh...and PVR's don't play games...so the value of a PVR is disproportianate with the cost, 360/Vista will offer a much more economical alternative for many people.

 

[hey69]

How the hell is PS3 going to offer PVR functionality? Read my lips: Not going to happen.

You want PVR? Get a 360, install windows vista on your PC, slap a $50 capture card in there and call it a day.

why would you need still a xbox360? just buy a pc with a capurecard...

 

[patsu]

How the hell is PS3 going to offer PVR functionality? Read my lips: Not going to happen.

Right. There is no video-in for PS3 and the HD is too small. Until they solve these problems, PVR is just a published promise so far.

You want PVR? Get a 360, install windows vista on your PC, slap a $50 capture card in there and call it a day.

You can get a cheap, standalone PVR too.

 

[Bad_Boy]

Well you obviously cared enough to get one in the first place.

It was acctually a gift, but thats another story. lol Your point is taken.
But like I said, me personally I'm more interested in the game recording abilities, pvr or not.

I wish we had some info about that, instead of vague quotes from phil harrison about the concept. :/

 

[ihamoitc2005]

Power Supply

There are various interviews with SCE at E3, here's a brief summary of them.
"PS3 is a computer" (as a PC is an office computer), basically it's the message.

Ken Kutaragi interview @ ITmedia
http://plusd.itmedia.co.jp/games/articles/0605/09/news046.html
(Most parts are at http://ps3.ign.com/articles/706/706133p1.html)

• The playable devkits at the E3 floor are all connected to the network and new builds of games are sent there day by day via FTP even during the E3
• The PS3 price may be too cheap, it's like no other. (See the IGN article)
• 2 million units at launch. (See the IGN article)

Ken Kutaragi interview @ Nikkei Tech-on
http://techon.nikkeibp.co.jp/article/NEWS/20060510/116928/

• Contrary to the underestimation by people, there are over 10 playable titles at the show floor, unlike the days of PS1/2
• There's not necessarily a correlation between the higher software development cost and the higher hardware spec. The criticism that regards PS3 as a too fat, too powerful hardware sounds like the excuse by those who avoid the challenge to new technologies. Until E3 developers hadn't known what other developers had been doing, apparently there are those who are surprised to see the states of completion of PS3 games not only among users but also among developers. I expect it can remove the excuse.
• Many devkits are stacked in the data center at the E3 showfloor connected to the network. Developers can send data everyday via FTP like in arcard games development. Consumer games distribution will begin to focus on network more, for example using a BD as a key disc, game contents are updated via network, or you can carry over the data you played at an arcade to a PS3 at home. PS3 begins the evolution since the day one you purchased it along with the network, because there's no need to close it within a package. People will feel it in the very near future, sooner than March 2007.
• PS3 is a computer, just like a typical computer which downloads a program from CD-ROM to HDD then executes it from an HDD as a cache. If the HDD space is small for you, you can buy a bigger HDD. In the next year even a PS3 with 120GB HDD may be released. It's not another version of PS3, it's just another configuration. Because PS3 is a computer. We may be able to sell it in BTO (built-to-order) for each customer. With that assumption, the internal of PS3 is designed with modularity in mind unlike home appliances and game consoles. In the way of thinking with which a computer is designed, we adopted standard interfaces and selected various parts with extensibility in mind.
• Kutaragi feels potential in the "Eye of Judgement" game.
• We have as many Cell as we'd like to sell them, so no worry about the scarcity. We started the manufacturing of Cell in Summer 2005. The more Cell the more better since we want to put Cell servers across the network. What's really difficult to secure were general parts in good times, such as passive parts, memory, HDD, boards, plate, and all other parts for 1 million per month production.
• (Answering the question about what Sony President Chubachi is saying as "customer viewpoint" lately) I am hardly conscious of it, we've been always with the customer since we began PlayStation. PS is a part of daily life and SCE employees, families, and myself are all uses, in other words customers.

Izumi Kawanishi interview (SCEI corporate executive, software platform development division) @ ITmedia
http://plusd.itmedia.co.jp/games/articles/0605/11/news058.html

• The base system of the 20GB PS3 and the 60GB PS3 is the same, it's like PC motherboards with different interfaces but different peripherals. It's not that there are 2 models of PS3, they are variations.
• It's natural that specs are different due to price ranges, just like hi-end and lo-end PC.
• The PS3 spec is the same worldwide, but there'll be more variations in future.
• The current PS3 can't output different pictures through HDMI and AV-multi. There may be a PS3 with 2 HDMIs in future
• Games can be saved in HDD. The difference in 20GB/60GB PS3 such as HDMI, WiFi, memory cards slot, and HDD won't matter in playing games. If you feel the HDD is small you can buy a bigger one.
• Though we wanted to add a motion sensor before we couldn't decide what kind of it should be built in and sensor devices were not good enough back then.
• The new PS logo button is used to raise the system menu, to turn on/off PS3, and to make the system recognise the controller. It's powered by a battery charged with a USB cable from PS3 to controller. The controller can't be used for PS2.
• PS3 has a standard web browser and a media player and XMB. It can play download contents and send data to PSP as a server. For the 20GB HDD PS3, PSP is connected via USB.
• In the PS1 emulation in PSP, PS1 game code is not at all modified. Some games can be run on a general emulator and others will be shipped with a special emulator. They are booted from MemStick Duo. If users want PSP may support MemStick boot of user application in future.
• The power supply unit of PS3 is internal. The quietness is equal to the PS2.

Izumi Kawanishi interview (SCEI corporate executive, software platform development division) @ PC Watch, by Zenji Nishikawa
(Some parts are the same as the interview above, such parts are omitted)
http://watch.impress.co.jp/game/docs/20060511/ps3.htm

• Though the PS3 hardware spec itself supports 2 screens output, the SKUs don't support it currently because its merit for users is unknown for now. HDMI x2 may be possible in future variations of PS3.
• We know 1080p is not an easy task but as you see GT:HD it's not impossible. Just like PS2 which was said to have too little VRAM in the early days we are not much concerned about it now.
• As for rendering resolution we recommend 1080p and 720p. Though we have no strict guidelines we recommend 1080p, anyway. But it depends on what resolution is prevalent for TV when a game launches.
• As for the developer comment that they prioritize info density per pixel to pointless HD, it's OK that a game has a different priority, though SD is nor preferable.
• As for the GbE port, the first PS3 configurations in 2006 have only one but in future configurations they can add more ports if they are needed.
• Unlike PS2 and other game consoles with OS and drivers on a game disc with the assumption that the hardware spec doesn't change, PS3 allows the change of the hardware spec with demands of the times. The OS and drivers are installed in PS3 and it absorbs hardware differences, which resembles the current form of PC.
• Since PS3 has Linux installed Linux programming is allowed. License fees are not required for individual developers. Licensed PS3 game developers can get SDK and technical support by SCE, on the other hand in the Linux world they don't have to pay license fee but the support is minimum. In Linux, Cell is under the hardware layer of the OS supervisor, but things inlcuding SPE are expected to be open to developers. But we don't intend to mix the PS3 as a game platform and the PS3 in the Linux world.
• PS3 is always "PlayStation". But in the category of computer entertainment, it's not necessarily a game that's provided for PS3. In that case, it may compete with PC including Windows PC.
• (Answering the question why there are no non-game apps in the E3 show floor) Well, it's because this is E3 (laugh)

EDIT: One more:

Izumi Kawanishi interview (SCEI corporate executive, software platform development division) @ AV Watch
http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/av/docs/20060511/rt003.htm

• DVD upconversion and progressive conversion will be implemented
• PS3 targets 4K x 2K video output too
• (Answering the question about Cell/RSX clockspeed that disappeared from the spec) We will announce the numbers later (But later Kawanishi referred to Cell as 3.2Ghz, so the interviewer speculates it's likely that the RSX spec has changed)

It has pics and movies of XMB in an actual PS3 unit which was shown behind the door.

It is surprising for me that power supply is internal only. For Xbox360 it is external and has to have much space for cooling no? So I wonder what is cooling technique for PS3. Also maybe this is why PS3 is more fat.

 

[scooby_dooby]

why would you need still a xbox360? just buy a pc with a capurecard...

- I have multiple screens I would like to view?
- I don't want my PC located in my living room (network it instead)
- I don't want to spend extra money on a remote control for my PC, or the PC is too far away to be accessed via remote

I could come up with many reasons, but they all basically come to one thing: ease of use. It's much easier, and more practical to use an extender device which can be networked to a central server, rather than connect each screen directly to the server itself.

Main issues with connection directly ot the central server are tyhe connection method, (are you going to run expensive component cables to every screen in your house? a networked solution is ideal) and interface control (how are you going to control teh central server without some sort of input device at the screen?) only alternatives are remote controls, and this creates an issue with multiple users accessing the same machine. An extender interface where each screen has it's own discrete interface is a superior solution.

 

[Carl B]

It is surprising for me that power supply is internal only. For Xbox360 it is external and has to have much space for cooling no? So I wonder what is cooling technique for PS3. Also maybe this is why PS3 is more fat.

PS3's 'girth' obviously relates to the use of an internal power supply; I imagine it makes cooling more difficult as well. But at the size and weight of the console, I'm thinking copper coolers with air being pushed over by a quiet Arctic-Cooler-esque fan design.

I think there may be some speed-stepping involved as well in the fan speeds.

This is all based on memory, but I went to the Blu-ray demo booth twice to interact with the functional PS3 there (mainly because it was easier to get into than the Warhawk demo booth), and the first time I recall the air rising fairly slowly, but later in the day the air was being forced out quite rapidly.

Who knows.

But anyway copper coolers with a single fan pushing air over both GPU and CPU in a channeled fashion is my guess.

For the power supply itself, all we know is Sony was going to use a high efficiency design, that was discussed here some months back.

 

[patsu]

- I have multiple screens I would like to view?
- I don't want my PC located in my living room (network it instead)
- I don't want to spend extra money on a remote control for my PC, or the PC is too far away to be accessed via remote

I could come up with many reasons, but they all basically come to one thing: ease of use. It's much easier, and more practical to use an extender device which can be networked to a central server, rather than connect each screen directly to the server itself.

Main issues with connection directly ot the central server are tyhe connection method, (are you going to run expensive component cables to every screen in your house? a networked solution is ideal) and interface control (how are you going to control teh central server without some sort of input device at the screen?) only alternatives are remote controls, and this creates an issue with multiple users accessing the same machine. An extender interface where each screen has it's own discrete interface is a superior solution.

You might want to take a look at DLNA, of which both MS and Sony are members.
Once the logical responsibilities between the controller, player, server and printer are separated, you should be able to pick the solution/configuration that works best for you.

Centralizing all the media in 1 PC managed by an Administrator account has its implications pertaining to privacy and single point of failure. I think the actual usage situation will be more ad hoc and free form (i.e., messy).

 

[Bad_Boy]

This is all based on memory, but I went to the Blu-ray demo booth twice to interact with the functional PS3 there (mainly because it was easier to get into than the Warhawk demo booth), and the first time I recall the air rising fairly slowly, but later in the day the air was being forced out quite rapidly.

Can you comment on the noise level?

 

[Bobbler]

I still don't understand this PVR talk... I don't think I got an answer last time I asked either:

Why would anyone believe PS3 would act as a PVR? Has Sony ever said so? Does this stem from that OPM/PSM (can't remember which) rumor?


@Scooby, you could also just get a PS3 with Vista or XP (with DLNA patch) and do the same (unless they changed their mind about DLNA compliance, but I imagine it's still there, as it is sort of at the core of their media offerings).

 

[scooby_dooby]

@Scooby, you could also just get a PS3 with Vista or XP (with DLNA patch) and do the same (unless they changed their mind about DLNA compliance, but I imagine it's still there, as it is sort of at the core of their media offerings).

Well when I see the PS3 interface that allows me to browse my local television listings, record and schedule upcoming programs, and save/playback from my PC, then I'll agree. Currently that's just a pipe-dream.

I don't see what DLNA enables that wasn't previous possible using simple Samba windows shares, if we're strictly talking PC>Console interoperability. XBMC from 2003 offers everything that DLNA is said to enable in this specific context.

I will be pleased if Sony offers a robust video/media streaming solution for PC, but I'm taking a 'wait and see' attitude on that front, right now it doesn't exist and I've seen nothign to indicate it will exist for the launch this Nov. As for PVR extender functionality, well I give that about a snowballs chance in hell.

 

[Carl B]

Can you comment on the noise level?

Indeed I can. The first time I was there, they were running the video demos intermitently, and I could get a decent sense of the PS3's noise levels. They didn't seem that high at all, but then again you have to account for the fact that it was within this acrylic casing; I tried getting my ear near the hole on the top, but it was too high for me to effectively angle as such. Plus the Sony reps were getting a little edgey at how I was sticking my camera in the hole and all this other business.

The second time I went in, it seemed louder - more 'roar' from the fan; but honestly I couldn't distinguish anything really soundwise because the Blu-ray demos were in full effect and the sound was thunderous. I would imagine that the increased fan noise I thought I heard was real though, as that would sync up nicely with the tactile sensation I got of air being pushed out of the case much more quickly.

 

[Bobbler]

Well when I see the PS3 interface that allows me to browse my local television listings, record and schedule upcoming programs, and save/playback from my PC, then I'll agree. Currently that's just a pipe-dream.

I don't see what DLNA enables that wasn't previous possible using simple Samba windows shares, if we're strictly talking PC>Console interoperability. XBMC from 2003 offers everything that DLNA is said to enable in this specific context.

I will be pleased if Sony offers a robust video/media streaming solution for PC, but I'm taking a 'wait and see' attitude on that front, right now it doesn't exist and I've seen nothign to indicate it will exist for the launch this Nov. As for PVR extender functionality, well I give that about a snowballs chance in hell.

I'd be surprised if I saw X360 doing that as well, but as far as recording on your PC and then being able to browse from your PS3 and watching it, that should be cake.

DLNA is at the heart of all those media centre things that Vista/MCE do. Vista and XP MCE are DLNA compliant... X360 is too, I imagine, except it only works with Windows machines vs any DLNA device (which isn't really a big deal, since connecting to a windows machine is generally the most likely way).

I'm taking a wait and see approach too, but if they go for DLNA compliance, like they've said, then there are a lot of possibilities -- I'm not putting all my faith in it happening, but I'd like to see DLNA compliance there, and from the things they've said and the hints they've made it seems like it is something they definitely want to have. I also don't believe the PVR nonsense.

 

[patsu]

I still don't understand this PVR talk... I don't think I got an answer last time I asked either:

Why would anyone believe PS3 would act as a PVR? Has Sony ever said so? Does this stem from that OPM/PSM (can't remember which) rumor?

I believe this is correct ... although I'm not sure if some Sony exec acknowledged the rumor.

 

[patsu]

I don't see what DLNA enables that wasn't previous possible using simple Samba windows shares, if we're strictly talking PC>Console interoperability. XBMC from 2003 offers everything that DLNA is said to enable in this specific context.

Different concept. DLNA is a media function and interoperability standard. XBMC is an app (based on the open source ffmpeg and many other packages ?).

DLNA specifies the protocols for controlling, playback, printing and other media features. The end result is you can mix-and-match different media devices (remote control, TV, jukebox) to build your home entertainment environment. e.g., a DLNA media controller can browse any DLNA-compliant jukebox media list.

It also specifies the codec profiles so that assorted media can be watched on different devices with no surprises.

Finally at the network level, it requires Universal PnP. I think the latest version also include some form of VPN (for remote access like Location Free ?).

I believe PSP's LocationFree player may allow people to browse TV listings (to set the recording remotely). I do not know if it's based on DLNA. I'm still waiting for Sony to open source their LocationFree SDK. They promised to do it sometime this year.

 

[one]

I'm still waiting for Sony to open source their LocationFree SDK. They promised to do it sometime this year.

Really? IIRC they began licensing of the commercial SDK for some non-Sony devices but I've never heard of it going open source.

 

[patsu]

Really? IIRC they began licensing of the commercial SDK for some non-Sony devices but I've never heard of it going open source.

http://www.sys-con.com/read/168098.htm

The SDK, which will be available to programmers in the U.S. beginning later this year, will enable software developers to adapt the LocationFree software to stream personal broadcast content to a multitude of portable gadgets, including cell phones, PDAs and music devices.

"The software development kit will empower programmers with the tools they need to expand this wireless broadband entertainment platform," said Robert Bartels, director of marketing for Sony Electronics. "By making the source code available to third-party developers, viewers will soon be able to remotely access their favorite TV programming on a broad array of portable electronic devices -- almost anywhere."

It was announced during the last CES. Perhaps the source code is only available to licensed developers

 

[scooby_dooby]

DLNA specifies the protocols for controlling, playback, printing and other media features. The end result is you can mix-and-match different media devices (remote control, TV, jukebox) to build your home entertainment environment. e.g., a DLNA media controller can browse any DLNA-compliant jukebox media list.

It also specifies the codec profiles so that assorted media can be watched on different devices with no surprises.

But we're not talking about a variety of input devices, we're talking about console>pc interoperability only, and to that end, all of this was possible before.

Sure, DLNA makes it more standardized, makes the solutions more generic, but it doesn't enable something that wasn't previously possible in this case. In other words, even without DNLA, Sony would be perfectly capable of designing their own custom applications to act as a media extender. The question is will they?

I guess, if anything, the new standards make it a little easier for Sony to implement this, but it's not like it was really that hard to do previously, it just meant designing a custom application rather than using pre-defined standards.

bobbler - why is the PVR functionality cake? Is sony going to setup a network that provides cable listings to me based on my local area codes and cable providers(embedded in MCE/Vista)? Will they provide an tv-guide like interface that I can browse on my PS3 to schedule these programs like the one embedded in x360?

 

[patsu]

But we're not talking about a variety of input devices, we're talking about console>pc interoperability only, and to that end, all of this was possible before.

Sure, DLNA makes it more standardized, makes the solutions more generic, but it doesn't enable something that wasn't previously possible in this case. In other words, even without DNLA, Sony would be perfectly capable of designing their own custom applications to act as a media extender. The question is will they?

I guess, if anything, the new standards make it a little easier for Sony to implement this, but it's not like it was really that hard to do previously, it just meant designing a custom application rather than using pre-defined standards.

Hmm... your original statement is:
"I don't see what DLNA enables that wasn't previous possible using simple Samba windows shares, if we're strictly talking PC>Console interoperability. XBMC from 2003 offers everything that DLNA is said to enable in this specific context."

I'm pointing out that:

+ Comparing DLNA with Samba and XBMC is inappropriate because they are different things. Even if XBMC is a DLNA compliant implementation, it seems like a limited/constrainted showing because MS is packaging XBox 360 as a Windows extender "only". As a user, I do not seem to have a choice in picking my setup. Didn't MS offer HD DVD for the users as a choice ? What happens to my Mac in this case ?

By the way, I tried to google for XBMC and DLNA but came up with nothing. So I believe it is not a DLNA compliant app at this moment, even though the core of MCE may be DLNA compliant. More info would be appreciated

Technically, DLNA allows the controller, the player and the server to be in 3 different places dynamically in an open manner (Google for a CES demo where the control and playback is switched between PSP, a TV and a media server without disrupting the viewing). Is this possible in XMBC or the MCE (I don't have either to find out !).

I believe remote connection (via uPnP, dynamic DNS, and VPN in DLNA 2.0) is also outside the scope of the current XBMC as well for zero configuration DLNA setup.

bobbler - why is the PVR functionality cake? Is sony going to setup a network that provides cable listings to me based on my local area codes and cable providers(embedded in MCE/Vista)? Will they provide an tv-guide like interface that I can browse on my PS3 to schedule these programs like the one embedded in x360?

Sony does not have to set up a network to provide cable listings. There are 3rd party providers who do that for a fee. This is probably how MS does it too. *If* PS3 is a PVR, then it will need to pull the same TV listing from the provider. There is nothing special about program listing. The default Cross-media bar interface is good enough for browsing TV listing. A keyboard interface would be a welcomed addition to search for my favorite TV though.

In any case, we still don't have any confirmation from Sony w.r.t. PVR, so I'll just wait for more info then.

 

[Bobbler]

bobbler - why is the PVR functionality cake? Is sony going to setup a network that provides cable listings to me based on my local area codes and cable providers(embedded in MCE/Vista)? Will they provide an tv-guide like interface that I can browse on my PS3 to schedule these programs like the one embedded in x360?

I was saying playing something on the PS3 that has been recorded by the PVR (in the PC) will be cake... there are free PVR programs that you can get on your PC, or cheap ones at least. Is there a browser on the 360 that allows you to control a PVR? Didn't know that (don't have MCE to try) -- unless Sony makes an app for the PC (which could well happen), you likely won't see that type of stuff. Browsing actual media and playing it transparently anywhere is what DLNA is all about.

Also, in reference to the rest of your post... the idea behind DLNA is that you don't need any sort of custom apps, because as long as it's DLNA compliant you can browse the media on it and play it wherever.

@patsu, XP MCE is DLNA compliant, and there is a patch for XP that allows DLNA features, if I remember correctly. Vista will obviously be. Not sure on the 360 situation -- could be something they add in the future? Would be neat if PSP/360/PS3 are all made to be DLNA compliant =o