Sigh.
The only successful thing they've done outside Windows/Office is Xbox. http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/g/a/2012/03/27/businessinsiderdont-look-now-but-mi.DTL They'd probably rather cut off a toe.
Predict: The Next Generation Console Tech
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Sigh.
The only successful thing they've done outside Windows/Office is Xbox. http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/g/a/2012/03/27/businessinsiderdont-look-now-but-mi.DTL They'd probably rather cut off a toe.
I give you that that was clearly over reacting, see my other post (just below)
Not over reacting this time but if there was to be a Xbox lite and for the thing to be successful... I don't see how that article would contradict a push for win8 in the living room.
If their 100$ xbox lite is successful it might see a refresh (most likely in the same price range 100$), honestly at this point htpc running a special edition of win8 would every bit as much sense as an high end xbox deluxe. You refresh often your cheap hardware that sells a low cost, costumers are not that bothered, the high end is handle through a software platform that is way more flexible (MS and costumers).
I agree if there is no xbox lite or it fails the case is pretty much settled. That's a hell lot of if.
Altogether I most likely agree with you that we may know about Sony than MS plan now (aside the project name it's difficult to make sense out of all the stuffs we heard on MS next system(s)).
NB win-phone 6 was not that bad they decided to throw it completely away instead of grow on it in professional market. That's completely OT though.
EDIT
Back again to the hd 6850 and a possible Kaveri powered PS4, this test from tech report is imho pretty interesting and may have been disregarded by quiet some members here because it's not exactly a piece of hardware intended to generate that much enthusiasm in the PC community.
One would notice that 99% of the time in quiet some situations the hd7750 performs better than a GTX 460. One would also notice that the card a less big hiccups than the GTX 460, one could also make the matching observation that the HD 7750 are less spiky. Clearly better than I though ( I didn't read that article at the HD 7750 release).
I believe that not on "dumb average" a product performing better than GTX 460 could surprise positively, not impress graphic whores but the situation is not as bad as per most review out there.
Techreport is clearly on something with their new way to review gpu perfs. Average can prove misleading figures
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As much as MS has pushed other content, the money still primarily comes from games. They aren't going to ditch their revenue stream just because people are doing other things with the box, they'll build on it. I also don't expect Apple to stop selling games on the app store because people spend more time playing free games.
If there's some non gaming or lite gaming box (which I doubt), it's going to be an addition to their product lineup. And even when whatever next box launches, they are likely to continue selling the 360 for quite a while as it makes little sense to abandon profit.
If there's some non gaming or lite gaming box (which I doubt), it's going to be an addition to their product lineup. And even when whatever next box launches, they are likely to continue selling the 360 for quite a while as it makes little sense to abandon profit.
Funny how so many seem to believe only the negative'ish rumors about Wii U, as many devs have said already ages ago that Wii U is far more powerful than PS3/XB360, and "far more" yields more than just PS3/XB360 + 480p tablet view on top
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Considering PS4, if we assume 300-350mm^2 budget, that should leave plenty of space after 3 steamroller modules, or should we assume more than 3 modules? Anyway, that budget could hold far more than just Full Cape verde GCN-wise, maybe even, or at least close to, Pitcairn when they strip off the things it won't need on a console, if they could still cool it efficiently enough. And give it the membw it needs
I'm quite sure the 6670 rumor was nothing but just that, a rumor, and a one without any basis on reality
Prophecy2k
Veteran
I'm quite sure that they're all rumours, with the only basis in reality being that there are next-gen boxes in development and that some devs have seen them ;-)
DoctorFouad
Newcomer
It is funny that a lot of people believed the non-sense rumor of next xbox having a 6670 GPU. it is beyond my understanding how people would believe in such nnon-sense rumors. How the hell would Microsoft use for its next xbox in fall 2013 a a 2 years old GPU architecture with lower per watt performance and higher costs ?!!!!!!!!!!!!!
and how the hell would people be capable to believe such absurdity ?!!!!!!!
of course it is very plausible that some next xbox development kits running on 6670 GPUs in 2010 were headed to some developers, but releasing a console with an outdated more expansive less performance per watt GPU, is just non sense and not going to happen.
DoctorFouad
Newcomer
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2...enamed-orbis-has-anti-pre-owned-system-report
"According to the report, the specs select developers are working towards include an AMD x64 CPU and an AMD Southern Islands GPU, the name given to AMD's 2012 high-end PC cards. The PS4 will apparently be capable of playing games at a resolution up to 4096x2160, and will play 3D games in 1080p.
Other information: the PS4 won't play PS3 games as Sony has no plans to offer backwards compatibility. It will, however, combat pre-owned by forcing new games, either on a Blu-ray disc or downloaded, to be tied to a single PSN account."
the ps4 not using an IBM powerful CPU capable of emulaing easily the CELL (e.g. power 8 based) to allow backwards compatibility with ps3 games, would be a huge mistake from sony. In an age of digital distribuion, just imagine the huge revenues for sony in allowing the whole catalogue of ps1/ps2 psp, vita and ps3 to be paid for, downloaded and played on ps4......
I dont believe sony officials arent intelligent enough to miss on this huge opportunity....
lets also not forget that it is in the interest of microsoft and sony to guard their plans very secretly and not doing any effort to correct rumors suggesting a weak hardware or a less feature rich hardware.....it is great for microsoft officials to lure sony into thinking that the next xbox wont be powerful enough (based on 6670 GP for example) and in the interest of sony to make microsoft believe that ps4 wont be compatibe with ps3 games ....etc
I may even ask, how much this 6670 gpu xbox next non-sense rumor affected sony plans for its ps4 ? and how much this non compatibility with ps3 games rumor would affect development of next xbox ? or the rumor of non used games permitted ?
it is funny, but it is also in the interest of both companies to adapt the SAME strategy regarding used games, or else one of them would lose a lot of customers.....
"According to the report, the specs select developers are working towards include an AMD x64 CPU and an AMD Southern Islands GPU, the name given to AMD's 2012 high-end PC cards. The PS4 will apparently be capable of playing games at a resolution up to 4096x2160, and will play 3D games in 1080p.
Other information: the PS4 won't play PS3 games as Sony has no plans to offer backwards compatibility. It will, however, combat pre-owned by forcing new games, either on a Blu-ray disc or downloaded, to be tied to a single PSN account."
the ps4 not using an IBM powerful CPU capable of emulaing easily the CELL (e.g. power 8 based) to allow backwards compatibility with ps3 games, would be a huge mistake from sony. In an age of digital distribuion, just imagine the huge revenues for sony in allowing the whole catalogue of ps1/ps2 psp, vita and ps3 to be paid for, downloaded and played on ps4......
I dont believe sony officials arent intelligent enough to miss on this huge opportunity....
lets also not forget that it is in the interest of microsoft and sony to guard their plans very secretly and not doing any effort to correct rumors suggesting a weak hardware or a less feature rich hardware.....it is great for microsoft officials to lure sony into thinking that the next xbox wont be powerful enough (based on 6670 GP for example) and in the interest of sony to make microsoft believe that ps4 wont be compatibe with ps3 games ....etc
I may even ask, how much this 6670 gpu xbox next non-sense rumor affected sony plans for its ps4 ? and how much this non compatibility with ps3 games rumor would affect development of next xbox ? or the rumor of non used games permitted ?
it is funny, but it is also in the interest of both companies to adapt the SAME strategy regarding used games, or else one of them would lose a lot of customers.....
Judging from everything that's circulating about how underpowered Wii U was, I'm not totally ruling this one out just yet. Technically speaking everything could be pure bogus till they officially reveal the spec sheet, so I'm simply looking at things on what's been rumored. Right now I just hope Epic, Crytelk and EA would push the consoles guys harder than ever.
upnorthsox
Veteran
Actually, I find it to unfortunately be totally believable. Some things need context though.
Holiday 2013 launch. This is almost a given unless something drastic happens.
Codename of XB3 is "Durango". PS4 Codename is "Orbis". Both of these have now been coraborated.
Both consoles are going to have Blu-Ray. Despite the incessant opinion of a few in another thread, this is also a given.
The X-Box 3 is going to have an 8-core 64-bit processor. This is the first surprise but not by alot. a 4 core P7 or even A2 variant would be 16 threads. To match that in a prototype Devkit you would likely use an 8 core i7 (16 threads). It's one more P7/A2 core than I would've guessed but not a stretch.
The PS4 will feature a 4-core 32-bit processor. This takes a little context to be understandable but if he had heard "It's not even 64-bit", his natural assumption would be that it must then be 32-bit. However, Bulldozer actually uses a 48-bit memory address which makes "It's not even 64-bit" accurate but misleading. If he had just said a quad-core Bulldozer, it's then a no surpriser.
XB3 will be using a GPU running support for DirectX 11, while the PS4 will be using an OpenGL 4 GPU. Duh!!
XB3 is specified to use 4 GB RAM, and the PS4 will be shipped with 2GB. I don't think the 2GB is that surprising here. The surprising part would be the disparity. Sony would get slaughtered marketing-wise with only half the memory and eventually it would show up in multiplat comps too though by then the rout may be complete and Sony a non-factor. This though would be easy for them to correct between now and launch.
the PS4 will have *NO* hard drive by default. Classic Sony, fix something that wasn't broken to begin with. Mindboggling? Definitely. Believable? Absolutely!!
There's quotes from Devs that supplement some of these points.
Overall, the surprising thing would be MS's agressiveness.
DoctorFouad
Newcomer
I think it is irrelevant to judge the future of ps4/next xbox from what is happening to WiiU. WiiU shouldnt be taken at all as a point of comparison to xbox next or ps4 hardware, if anything it should be compared with ps3 and xbox360 hardware.
Nintendo is really onto a VERY different console business model than sony/microsoft are heading towards (digital distribution, online services, hardcore gamers, plus a little bit for everyone, like indie games, kinect, move....in short a multi-service BOX capable of delivering diverse and any entertainment service to consumers including TV, movies, series, music....).
Nintendo is playing to its historical strenghs (Nintendo family system era, concentrating on a target demgraphic, innovating controllers, exclusive Nintendo games, and doing what it has always done best).
DoctorFouad
Newcomer
I believe that unlike ps3/xbox360 bizarre improbable surprising hardware decisions era, we will return to the classic normal logical case of different quantity and bandwidth of RAM used for consoles....strangely enough, if ps3 used the same amount of RAM of xbox360 it was precisely because it has been released 1 year later than xbox360....If ps3 has been released at the same timeframe as xbox360, things woud have been different (worse for sony) I wouldnt be surprised that ps3 would have only 256 mo of RAM if it has been released in fall 2005. microsoft and developers forced the hands of sony....even microsoft's 512 mo was influenced by Epic's gears of war guys....
this generation, things would change and return to normal if both companies launch at the same timeframe, one company would definitely have the upper hand in RAM management (quantity VS bandwidth equilibrium)....
In short I wont be surprised this gen, if one console has a 3 Go of RAM with mroe bandwidth and the other 4 Go of RAM with less bandwidth....and of course I prefer 4Go with less bandwidth...(bigger more interactive game worlds, more things to do, more textures....etc)
and yes, no one would use edram anymore, it is just too expansive and restrictive to have en edram allowing a framebuffer for 1080p+ MSAA games....sony suffered from edram on its ps2 and they abandoned it successfully for their ps3, microsoft suffered from the restrictive edram for their xbox360 and I predict they will abandon it sucessfully for their next xbox....it is just too restrictive and expansive for the kind of huge framebuffers we have today, and the silicon budget would be wisely better spended on more raw gpu/cpu processing power or even more quantities of slower RAMs.
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I think this is worthy of discussion. Almost sounds CPU heavy too me, in this day and age, thinking along the lines I'd rather have more GPU than a monster CPU taking some of those resources.
Most likely an IBM design of some type...is 1.2 teraflops remotely reasonable for a current-ish IBM CPU?
Still, bodes very well for possible overall system power, if true. Even if it's just 8 Xenon-like cores.
It can be done if you're sure you're more powerful than the competition. At that point you can demand a premium. Then you can price closer to cost.
I think a 499 console that had a clear power edge, would beat a 399 lesser one in the marketplace.
Also, any alleged decision to go non standard hard drive would be very helpful to Sony, especially if MS went the other way. No doubt in my mind the Core SKU helped Microsoft a lot this generation.
I have my doubts this is a real decision though, in any sense that it would be non reversible, since likely at any time you can rip the HDD out later and sell a core unit. The only reason PS3 cant is 2X Blu Ray.
One of the devs, nAo maybe, remarked here that 64bit is a complete waste in a console. As long as you have a sufficient memory address space, 32bit is going to be more efficient for a game console with less redundant memory accessing.
It tells us nothing though. 8 small cores or 8 big cores? It's quite possible to have an 8 core processor that's not overpowered, by having low clocks and limited execution units.
Really, the numbers we have are next to useless. Even 2GBs RAM means next to nothing. If the system has a fast SSD, and a blod of VRAM or something, that 2GBs could prove ample for megatextured, megameshed games.
upnorthsox
Veteran
Depends of course on how much memory you are putting in, 2GB it is enough, 4GB it's not. 48-bit should be enough for either (and then some).
tongue_of_colicab
Veteran
AMD has nothign to do with it. Sony/MS will come up with a budget/performance outline and AMD will come up with a chip that is within whatever Sony/MS asked for.
It could potentially be a mangling/confusion of the spec. I don't think you'd get a CPU that's capable of 1.2 Tflops. Assume that you have 8 cores running at 3 GHz, each core would have to be able to issue 50 flops per cycle to reach 1.2 Tflops (1200/3/8=50) so that's unrealistic imo.
However, if the CPU is an actually an APU and 1.2 Tflops is the total processing power of the CPU+GPU, that not unreasonable and very likely as that's seems to be the aim of future AMD APU's.
A lot of these rumors are like the old kids game of telephone where the message starts as one thing and by the time it's passed through the room it's completely different.
So if I had to reasonably guess, we'd see both next gen consoles as SOC solutions:
Xbox:IBM 8 core PPC with AMD GPU combined 1.2 Tflops
PS: AMD 4 core x86 with AMD GPU for a combined ~1 Tflop of so.
In the end probably not much difference in GPU performance. I could see MS taking away a core or two for the OS/Kinect.
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