Predict: The Next Generation Console Tech

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Shifty Geezer said:
Really, the numbers we have are next to useless. Even 2GBs RAM means next to nothing. If the system has a fast SSD, and a blod of VRAM or something, that 2GBs could prove ample for megatextured, megameshed games.
Click to expand...

2GB's might be fine for a while if propped up with other things, but the incessant multiplat Dev whining would be intolerable. Marketing-wise though, it'd be a fricken nightmare. Maybe this explains why we've seen an exodus of Sony Sales/Marketing people recently, looking at the disaster coming, are the rats fleeing the sinking ship (so to speak)?
 
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upnorthsox said:
Depends of course on how much memory you are putting in, 2GB it is enough, 4GB it's not. 48-bit should be enough for either (and then some).
Click to expand...
That's memory addressing. You can do like the old Motorola 68000, with 32bit registers, 16 bit operations, and 24 bit memory addressing. Only in this case, 32 bit instructions, 256 bit registers, and 48/64 bit memory addressing.
 
Shifty Geezer said:
That's memory addressing. You can do like the old Motorola 68000, with 32bit registers, 16 bit operations, and 24 bit memory addressing. Only in this case, 32 bit instructions, 256 bit registers, and 48/64 bit memory addressing.
Click to expand...
Still, having pointer sizes at >32bit will be a waste and that was the original point.

Now having split memory pools of 3G RAM + 3G VRAM would be awesome and doable with 32bit addressing.
 
Shifty Geezer said:
It tells us nothing though. 8 small cores or 8 big cores? It's quite possible to have an 8 core processor that's not overpowered, by having low clocks and limited execution units.

Really, the numbers we have are next to useless. Even 2GBs RAM means next to nothing. If the system has a fast SSD, and a blod of VRAM or something, that 2GBs could prove ample for megatextured, megameshed games.
Click to expand...

I think the guy was implying 2 GO of total system memory (no more memory for vram). whatever bandwidth we are talking about, this would be a catastroph and a nightmare for multiplatform developers developing for a 4 go VS 2 go console....thats impossible.

I can see one console having 3 Go, the other only 2 Go with different bandwidth or not (look at the latest nvidia 680gtx VS amd 7900), or 3 go VS 4 go, but not the double, thats unacceptable for the engineers and officials of both companies, when they hear multiplatform developers whining about it, they would cange it immediately....(like what happened with gears of war and xbox360)
 
Shifty Geezer said:
That's memory addressing. You can do like the old Motorola 68000, with 32bit registers, 16 bit operations, and 24 bit memory addressing. Only in this case, 32 bit instructions, 256 bit registers, and 48/64 bit memory addressing.
Click to expand...

Well yes, but that's what I was responding to: "As long as you have a sufficient memory address space". I don't see 32-bit being more efficient for multiplat devs though if they have to go to more exotic config as part of their port. a nice 48-bit with truncate seems much more reasonable.
 
DoctorFouad said:
I think the guy was implying 2 GO of total system memory (no more memory for vram). whatever bandwidth we are talking about, this would be a catastroph and a nightmare for multiplatform developers developing for a 4 go VS 2 go console....thats impossible.

I can see one console having 3 Go, the other only 2 Go with different bandwidth or not (look at the latest nvidia 680gtx VS amd 7900), or 3 go VS 4 go, but not the double, thats unacceptable for the engineers and officials of both companies, when they hear multiplatform developers whining about it, they would cange it immediately....(like what happened with gears of war and xbox360)
Click to expand...
How do they say in Quebec? Stop le BS... :LOL:

Are you implying that PC games, multi platforms for quiet some of them, are some sort of singularity that doesn't really happen in our world but in some geeks minds only?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

That pastebin sounds like BS, open Gl4? Really. 32,64bits BS.

The poker player in me tells me that is somebody that edit his post to sound important... I call it blufff ... By the way you can't see if the post is edited or not.

I can't remember for sure but haven't we heard a rumor about the PS4 being more powerful than the Xbox3 sometime ago? That would be funny, along with the HD 6670 rumors, a Kaveri based ps4 backed by GDDR5 would significantly beat whatever we heard so far about Durango.

Anyway mostly noise at this point, can't wait for proper leaks (though PS4 +AMD somehow sounds legit to me).
 
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upnorthsox said:
Actually, I find it to unfortunately be totally believable. Some things need context though.

Holiday 2013 launch. This is almost a given unless something drastic happens.
Codename of XB3 is "Durango". PS4 Codename is "Orbis". Both of these have now been coraborated.
Both consoles are going to have Blu-Ray. Despite the incessant opinion of a few in another thread, this is also a given.
The X-Box 3 is going to have an 8-core 64-bit processor. This is the first surprise but not by alot. a 4 core P7 or even A2 variant would be 16 threads. To match that in a prototype Devkit you would likely use an 8 core i7 (16 threads). It's one more P7/A2 core than I would've guessed but not a stretch.
The PS4 will feature a 4-core 32-bit processor. This takes a little context to be understandable but if he had heard "It's not even 64-bit", his natural assumption would be that it must then be 32-bit. However, Bulldozer actually uses a 48-bit memory address which makes "It's not even 64-bit" accurate but misleading. If he had just said a quad-core Bulldozer, it's then a no surpriser.
XB3 will be using a GPU running support for DirectX 11, while the PS4 will be using an OpenGL 4 GPU. Duh!!
XB3 is specified to use 4 GB RAM, and the PS4 will be shipped with 2GB. I don't think the 2GB is that surprising here. The surprising part would be the disparity. Sony would get slaughtered marketing-wise with only half the memory and eventually it would show up in multiplat comps too though by then the rout may be complete and Sony a non-factor. This though would be easy for them to correct between now and launch.
the PS4 will have *NO* hard drive by default. Classic Sony, fix something that wasn't broken to begin with. Mindboggling? Definitely. Believable? Absolutely!!

There's quotes from Devs that supplement some of these points.

Overall, the surprising thing would be MS's agressiveness.
Click to expand...

How are devs going to get their hands on 8-core Sandy-Bridge Es?

Aren't those for servers?
 
Saw this on GAF

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=36471158&postcount=11809

It's about an IBM CPU called 'Project Flanker'. Take with a grain of salt, but, it would be interesting if this was the Wii U CPU.


Can anyone here get any more information about IBM's "Project Flanker"?

The codename may be related to IBM's CPU for the Wii U.
Some engineers at Infotech Enterprises are working on a 45nm IBM SOI CPU.

Infotech Enterprises is in Seattle, WA - steps away from Redmond (NOA).
Here is an example of "Project Flanker":

http://www.linkedin.com/pub/yu-luan/1b/10a/48
Quote:
Current ASIC Design Engineer at Infotech Enterprises
Chip Integration Engineer at IBM
Quote:
ASIC Design Engineer

Infotech Enterprises

Public Company; 5001-10,000 employees; INFOTECENT; Information Technology and Services industry

2010– Present (2 years)

Working on the physical design and timing closure for IBM Cu45HP Flanker project




Chip Integration Engineer

IBM

Public Company; 10,001+ employees; IBM; Information Technology and Services industry

2006– Present (6 years)

Physical Design/Integration Engineer for CU45HP LSI X1 design. Worked on the physical design and timing closure for LSI X1 design and floorplanning improvement on LSI PPC476 processor. Also, created and developed the IBM ChipBench and Cadence Marpo power routing for Cu65HP,. The power-routing methodology was used across all ASIC Cu65HP projects.
Click to expand...
 
upnorthsox said:
Actually, I find it to unfortunately be totally believable. Some things need context though.

Holiday 2013 launch. This is almost a given unless something drastic happens.
Codename of XB3 is "Durango". PS4 Codename is "Orbis". Both of these have now been coraborated.
Both consoles are going to have Blu-Ray. Despite the incessant opinion of a few in another thread, this is also a given.
The X-Box 3 is going to have an 8-core 64-bit processor. This is the first surprise but not by alot. a 4 core P7 or even A2 variant would be 16 threads. To match that in a prototype Devkit you would likely use an 8 core i7 (16 threads). It's one more P7/A2 core than I would've guessed but not a stretch.
The PS4 will feature a 4-core 32-bit processor. This takes a little context to be understandable but if he had heard "It's not even 64-bit", his natural assumption would be that it must then be 32-bit. However, Bulldozer actually uses a 48-bit memory address which makes "It's not even 64-bit" accurate but misleading. If he had just said a quad-core Bulldozer, it's then a no surpriser.
XB3 will be using a GPU running support for DirectX 11, while the PS4 will be using an OpenGL 4 GPU. Duh!!
XB3 is specified to use 4 GB RAM, and the PS4 will be shipped with 2GB. I don't think the 2GB is that surprising here. The surprising part would be the disparity. Sony would get slaughtered marketing-wise with only half the memory and eventually it would show up in multiplat comps too though by then the rout may be complete and Sony a non-factor. This though would be easy for them to correct between now and launch.
the PS4 will have *NO* hard drive by default. Classic Sony, fix something that wasn't broken to begin with. Mindboggling? Definitely. Believable? Absolutely!!

There's quotes from Devs that supplement some of these points.

Overall, the surprising thing would be MS's agressiveness.
Click to expand...

I disagree, this seems too gimped for a machine that was developed in collaboration with Sony WWS. You'd think Sony's own first parties would demand a higher RAM spec and mandatory HD. Sony don't have the in-house content to pull a Nintendo, they need parity on 3rd party games to keep their core audience.
 
Megadrive1988 said:
Saw this on GAF

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=36471158&postcount=11809

It's about an IBM CPU called 'Project Flanker'. Take with a grain of salt, but, it would be interesting if this was the Wii U CPU.
Click to expand...

Yep, that was me. wsippel did some digging into the company and found this about Infotech Enterprises:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=36471316&postcount=11818

With the average life span of a game shrinking drastically, gamers look for the newest and the hottest machines each day. Be it the Casino floor or the Console segment, Infotech integrates technology and innovation to create a better experience for your customers at a pace that ensures you are always ahead in the bigger game.

Service offering

Gaming consoles

Product Design and development
User Interface and multimedia graphics design
Gaming algorithm and application development
Access control application
Testing & Validation
Click to expand...

So it could mean nothing, but it could also mean something.
 
SedentaryJourney said:
I disagree, this seems too gimped for a machine that was developed in collaboration with Sony WWS. You'd think Sony's own first parties would demand a higher RAM spec and mandatory HD. Sony don't have the in-house content to pull a Nintendo, they need parity on 3rd party games to keep their core audience.
Click to expand...

You'd think!!

But maybe the current leadership is too consumed with the battles they fought last time and not the battles that need to be fought in the future.

One thing though, those two items are ones that could be changed up to your production run (along with clocks). If you wait too long though you'll gimp your launch lineup.
 
upnorthsox said:
You'd think!!

But maybe the current leadership is too consumed with the battles they fought last time and not the battles that need to be fought in the future.
Click to expand...


Umm, have we forgotten there are definite cost advantages to less specs?

Sony cant afford to lose money.

Additionally, it is likely that Sony brass perceive that they had the clearly more powerful machine this gen, in the PS3, and it gained them nothing. It probably scared them off that path.

I'd disagree, PS3 was not >360, it was closer to =360. But there's no denying the perception is that it is >360, a perception so widespread as to be accepted fact among most message boards and moreso I'm sure among Joe Six Pack. The thought is the likes of Uncharted and Killzone are massive leaps above anything possible on 360. I've certainly read one million and one youtube comments to that effect.

Of course, Sony is wrong, but they do have a history of bad decisions, so I think they will make the wrong one again, and go with a weak(er) spec box. People should brace themselves now. It's something I've been cautioning for the last couple years, in the face of all this talk that the XB3 was a glorified Apple TV or whatever.
 
Shocking alberto, who even I know is some sort of credible shadowy GAF insider (though, dont ask me any details cause I have no idea:p ), posted this about Microsoft's next gen, grain of salt

They asked publishers and developers what they need in a next-gen system

EA, Activision, DICE, and Epic all insisted on raising the ceiling by what we would traditionally consider a generational leap.


Microsoft listened because they were told this would increase game sales and hardware adoption.


-ShockingAlberto
Click to expand...
 
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