Playstation 3: Hardware Info and Price

[DemoCoder]

Consumers perception of Windows is like the perception of air you breath. You mostly don't notice it, until it becomes polluted or smokey. Most people don't notice windows, using it every day, until they become annoyed by it for some reason or another.

Have you seen the new Apple ads? They are leveraging off the well known public perception that PCs, Windows are "work oriented" not "play oriented", despite all the marketing MS has tried to do to change this, the majority of people still haven't bought into it.

Do you know anyone who shows off "Windows" to people who come into their home, vs showing off some piece of consumer electronics equipment in their living room with stylish design? Until the XB360, MS didn't have one example of something with good styling. XBOX-1 lived up to its name "BOX", a frigging ugly box.

 

[scooby_dooby]

I saw a study a couple months ago, MS was rated horribly by consumers as far as brand confidence went(presumably due to windows), Sony was very high.

 

[Powderkeg]

$80 MRSP for a game? I've got to believe it's BS. Maybe if it came with a Steel Battlion controller.

I don't have any idea how accurate that is, but apparently it's the corporate wide price for PS3 game reservations as of today. Both EB Games and Gamestop.

Whether it stays at that price is anyones guess, but that's the price as of now.

 

[DemoCoder]

Could be based on anticipated demand. XBOX360 online prices were outrageous, and many stores were selling them for above MRSP, sometimes a $100 markup hidden in "bundles" Sony should learn from XB launch and put their foot down on price gouging.

 

[Powderkeg]

Do you realize people used that almost same logic when MS didnb't list the powercord as included in the box? They won't have to market it as it will be hanging in the peripherals isle, and their salesmen will kindly inform them their $500 ps3 will actually cost $550 if they want to have HDMI output.

That's not even remotely the same logic.

People who said that the 360 wouldn't come with a powercord included in the box because it wasn't specifically listed were the ones not using logic. There was no reason to think MS would charge extra for a powercord.

In the case of the PS3, the whole premise is that the cord WILL be sold seperately, in which case some sort of an announcement would seem almost necessary. We already know it's not included with the $499 PS3, there is no question about that. The issue here is IF there is actually going to be a seperate cable available that adds HDMI to the $499 PS3, why wouldn't Sony mention that?

 

[RobertR1]

Consumers perception of Windows is like the perception of air you breath. You mostly don't notice it, until it becomes polluted or smokey. Most people don't notice windows, using it every day, until they become annoyed by it for some reason or another.

Have you seen the new Apple ads? They are leveraging off the well known public perception that PCs, Windows are "work oriented" not "play oriented", despite all the marketing MS has tried to do to change this, the majority of people still haven't bought into it.

Media Center Edition and later Vista are designed specifically to change that image.

If you notice most of the Dell Home machines now come with Media Center installed, along with other vendors. The "3D" desktop of Vista is ceratinly designed to be aesthetically pleasing and create a personal feel. Perception doesn't change over night but they are obviously putting the necessary pieces in place to do it over time. Merging xbox live with Vista will create an even bigger entertainment projection for Vista along with being able to use the Xbox 360 peripherals.

Thinking more about where MS is headed over the past few days, it seems like they're not trying to compete with Sony in a brute force matchup. Rather, use the tools already available to them to create a stronghold. Having control over the desktop OS market is a strong tool, and they look to be leveraging that.

 

[ihamoitc2005]

ebay

What?
1. Those ebay prices may get a lot of media attention, but I'd bet, at most, tens of thousands were sold at those prices.

That is market price. People who bought xbox360 and did not sell on ebay for $1000 has paid $400 cash and $300-1100 opportunity cost. So people who paid $400 for Xbox360 and did not sell it for $700-1500, Xbox360 is worth $700-1500.

Same for PS3. For early buyers during shortage period (first 3-6months) PS3 is worth >>> retail price.

2. Most of the jacked up prices came from in store bundles.....except that you got a couple games or maybe a tv out of the bundle, so the system cost as normal, but you had to buy other stuff too.

People were willing to buy stupid bundle they dont want to have Xbox360 so for them Xbox360 is worth bundle price. This is why Retailer like EB games can sell big Xbox360 bundle during early period but not later. Later anyone can get Xbox360 and normal price and will not want stupid bundles.

3. $299 was the standard console price for 2 generations, with a both nintendo consoles and 1 sega console launching at $200 during that time period.

Everything changes with time. What is price of gasoline in 1999?

 

[Powderkeg]

Could be based on anticipated demand. XBOX360 online prices were outrageous, and many stores were selling them for above MRSP, sometimes a $100 markup hidden in "bundles" Sony should learn from XB launch and put their foot down on price gouging.

This isn't mom and pop rip-off shop here, this is EB Games. They charged MSRP for 360 games and not 1 penney more, they will charge MSRP for PS3 games, and frankly your bias is really showing through with this ludicrous suggestion that EB Games/Gamestop is listing prices above MSRP.

It MAY be a guess as to what they expect the price to be, but suggestions of EB price gouging on the games.............sad.

 

[RobertR1]

Oh, and Sony doesn't mention I need electricity to run my PS3, and electricity costs.
So the PS3 actually is closer to $1000 or beyond, depending how lon you're going to use it!!! And what about the display that I'm going to connect the PS3 to? Will it come bundled with the machine or do they make me pay extra for one too if I don't already own one???!?!?! The cheap b*astards!

The PS3 will have a built in reactor and be completely self sustaining. The gameplay will be transmitted directly to your optical nerve so all you see is the ingame footage. True motion will come when you have to perform the actions of the character. Sony can do no wrong.

 

[rabidrabbit]

oops, sorry I deleted my post because I realised it was inappropriate and I had misunderstood some previous posts.
I hoped no-one would've seen it but you were too quick
Sorry.

 

[RobertR1]

oops, sorry I deleted my post because I realised it was inappropriate and I had misunderstood some previous posts.
I hoped no-one would've seen it but you were too quick
Sorry.

I'm sorry you're so slow

 

[DemoCoder]

This isn't mom and pop rip-off shop here, this is EB Games. They charged MSRP for 360 games and not 1 penney more, they will charge MSRP for PS3 games, and frankly your bias is really showing through with this ludicrous suggestion that EB Games/Gamestop is listing prices above MSRP.

It MAY be a guess as to what they expect the price to be, but suggestions of EB price gouging on the games.............sad.

EBGames, BestBuy, Circuit City, Amazon, and GameStop were all charging $100 markup in their XB360 bundles. I should fscking know, since I spent months shopping for an XB360 trying to get one.

Let's see. You go to a shop across the street. Talk to some low paid store sales person who doesn't have much of a clue as to what the launch dates of games will be and what they cost, but who tells you an anecdotal story about $80 games, and then you come post it here. Now people here are "biased" for questioning your source and your facts?

Oh wait, let's see. I just spoke with a guy at GameStop and he told me he heard a rumor that stores would be selling Gears of War for $100.

 

[Fox5]

Sony does have a better brand image, just like Nintendo. I know many people who were "waiting for PS3" even before they knew what the specs were. They, like Nintendo fans, had pre-decided to buy. Sure, MS has this too, but it's a comparatively smaller percentage, especially given how much the PS/2 outsold them.

Sony has franchise exclusive content like Nintendo, that has a large following. FF, MGS, GT. MS has Halo primarily, and Halo doesn't have the reach that brands like FF, MGS, Mario, Zelda, etc have. This has a big influence on many buyers, who would otherwise go for the cheapest console. It is especially a big loss for MS in Japan.

Microsoft doesn't exactly have a slick "consumer" brand image, like Sony, Samsung, et al. Most consumer's image of MS is colored by Windows.

Sony has an uphill battle on economic factors because MS has the better production economics. But Microsoft's brand image, even in the US, isn't exactly "living room" no matter how much they try to sell you the idea that MCE PCs are invading living rooms. MS has a long way to go to convince people that they are 'cool/hip' electronics, like Apple, Nintendo, Sony, and other asian and european manufacturers.

If I had to make an analog, I'd say that MS is like Ford trying to convince buyers that their latest sports car has the same style appeal as brands from BMW or Nissan. Ford actually has made amazing strides in the last 2 decades in terms of quality and design, but people still view American car brands as pedestrian, boring.

Microsoft has a fairly strong image in America (or at least Xbox does), and Halo is a pretty high selling franchise. I believe it's outsold the last two MGS games, outsold Mario Sunshine, outsold Wind Waker, and is probably on par with Gran Turismo. Halo is the one recognizable name on Xbox, and it's almost as big a name as GTA.

People who said that the 360 wouldn't come with a powercord included in the box because it wasn't specifically listed were the ones not using logic. There was no reason to think MS would charge extra for a powercord.

I believe he meant how the power cord wasn't included with the wireless controller.

That is market price. People who bought xbox360 and did not sell on ebay for $1000 has paid $400 cash and $300-1100 opportunity cost. So people who paid $400 for Xbox360 and did not sell it for $700-1500, Xbox360 is worth $700-1500.

I don't think the entire initial launch shipment would have sold at the price of $700 to $1500 for just the console by itself.

Everything changes with time. What is price of gasoline in 1999?

About a $1.20, but the cost of production has gone up, wheres the cost of production of electronics generally stays the same or goes down over time.
And inflation alone does not account for anywhere near the price increase. I'd be surprised if there was even 15% inflation since the ps2 launched.

 

[scooby_dooby]

In the case of the PS3, the whole premise is that the cord WILL be sold seperately, in which case some sort of an announcement would seem almost necessary. We already know it's not included with the $499 PS3, there is no question about that. The issue here is IF there is actually going to be a seperate cable available that adds HDMI to the $499 PS3, why wouldn't Sony mention that?

They didn't mention it for teh same reason they didn't mention the fact there's an extra HDMI port on the back of the upper model. It's not necessary, and it only confuses people. Most will simply assume this is the case.

The only reason this is even in question is because of a single column in the Sony PDF. A PDF we only know exists because we read forums like this.

If they had came out and made a statement about the base model not having included HDMI, and then didn't follow that up with an announcement about the cable, I'd agree with you somewhat. But they haven't announced anything, they've just released a PDF specs paper.

The way I look at it is this, if I'm sony, do I A) disable hdmi support on one sku, save some pennies on the BOM, but potentially limit the amount of users that use ps3 as a BR player, or B) provide a proprietary cable I can sell for $50, and ensure that all users will have the abilitiy to play 100% of BR movies

B is the no-brainer.

 

[DemoCoder]

Microsoft has a fairly strong image in America (or at least Xbox does), and Halo is a pretty high selling franchise. I believe it's outsold the last two MGS games, outsold Mario Sunshine, outsold Wind Waker, and is probably on par with Gran Turismo. Halo is the one recognizable name on Xbox, and it's almost as big a name as GTA.

I'd like to see the source data frankly. I know only 22 million X-Box consoles were sold worldwide compared to 100 million PS/2, and that roughly 40million PS/2s were sold in NA, so there are far more PS/2s deployed in people's living rooms in NA, and I frankly don't think MS's brand image is that strong. Bungie has a strong image attached to HALO, but that's MS's one saving grace. Sony and Nintendo have a far larger portfolio of brand assets, and they are not trying to come from a bland or bad image like MS is.

 

[DemoCoder]

I personally doubt an HDMI cord sold separately. Unlike the X-BOX 360, the RSX has an integrated TMDS (G70/71 heritage), so the hardware is there, but it likely won't HDCP. DVI might be a possibility, if the AV multiport has the GPU's digital outputs wired up.

The danger of wiring digital up to the multiport is the possibility that hackers could construct their own capable, and somehow get BluRay playback to work, so they could capture the output.

The "tard version" may retain a capability of a future HDMI dongle, but I don't think Sony will enable it at this time. They will have the TMDS switched off in software so that even if hackers make a DVI capable and wire it in, they can't capture HD output raw.

 

[Dave Baumann]

I personally doubt an HDMI cord sold separately. Unlike the X-BOX 360, the RSX has an integrated TMDS (G70/71 heritage), so the hardware is there, but it likely won't HDCP. DVI might be a possibility, if the AV multiport has the GPU's digital outputs wired up.

I'm told none of the NVIDIA display is being used for digital output, this is all done via Silicon Image chips.

 

[scooby_dooby]

I personally doubt an HDMI cord sold separately. Unlike the X-BOX 360, the RSX has an integrated TMDS (G70/71 heritage), so the hardware is there, but it likely won't HDCP. DVI might be a possibility, if the AV multiport has the GPU's digital outputs wired up.

The danger of wiring digital up to the multiport is the possibility that hackers could construct their own capable, and somehow get BluRay playback to work, so they could capture the output.

The "tard version" may retain a capability of a future HDMI dongle, but I don't think Sony will enable it at this time. They will have the TMDS switched off in software so that even if hackers make a DVI capable and wire it in, they can't capture HD output raw.

I thought you were arguing that they would simply allow BR playback over component? Wouldn't that make it pretty damn easy to capture? Or, is Sony only concerned about raw digital captures, and not HD analogue captures?

 

[RancidLunchmeat]

I saw a study a couple months ago, MS was rated horribly by consumers as far as brand confidence went(presumably due to windows), Sony was very high.

Yeah, and it was hysterical, because wasn't that also the same study that had high marks for HP and Dell?

 

[SugarCoat]

Did anyone happen to notice if any info was given on region locking or is the console region free?