Official GT5 discussion thread

[Nesh]

I'm just playing this game and wondering...what the heck did they do for six years?!?! Did they spend their whole budget on actual cars? I'm sure this has been discussed at great length in the thread, but I didn't really follow it, since I'm not a GT maniac or anything. So don't feel like you have to answer...it's just inexcusable to me since Turn 10 has made twice as many Forza games in almost the same amount of time, and I don't remember seeing Forza 1 models reused in Forza 4.

I mean, for $15, it's fun, and I'm having a good time, but some of the environmental textures are just inexcusably bad. Given that they reused (looked it up) around 800 car models from GT4, I wouldn't be surprised at all if a lot of the textures are the source images used to make the 4-bit textures in that game. There are lots of places with just a flat, pre-lit texture pasted on an enormous polygon, and the trees are mostly PS2-style "+" shapes. Dust effects are unbelievably bad. It's as though no one on the team bothered to learn about any new tech at all. I get the distinct impression they believed GT4 was so advanced that they really didn't need to do much other than "The same thing, but HD this time" to stay on top.

Worth it for $15. If I'd paid $60 for this, I'd be furious. This would have been acceptable as a launch title...barely. And it's disappointing to know the PS3 won't be getting anything the quality of what the Xbox has.

If you are talking about the reused tracks and cars yes. But the content that was done from scratch for GT5 has amazing work. The 250 premium cars in GT5 for that matter have the same attentio as the autovisya cars in Forza 4. Only 25 cars are in autovista. Wires, bolts, switches, buttons....all have modeled. The cars in Forza 4 minus the autovista didnt get the same treatment. In addition the tracks that have been made from scratch have amazing detail up to the slightest bump on the road has been accounted for to affect even the gameplay, whereas F4 tried to get mostly the looks of the tracks right. All car lights emit light into the environment including dust and rain spray. Also missing from Forza. In addition the tracks that include weather conditions and/or daynight cycles are a technical marvel with dynamic shadows and lighting unlike Forza 4 which has everything prebaked. Not to mention the changing variables as temperatures air resistance and humidity change in GT5.Even Horizon doesnt get the daynight cycle right. A portion of Horizon's transition from night to daylight is wrong/missing. The premium cars interiors are also "functional" in GT5. There are also other details in the game that arent noticeable to the eye. If GT5 didnt have the reused cars and tracks from GT4 people would have been paying better attention to the amazing stuff PD has achieved in GT5.
Lastly I am pretty sute many stuff didnt make it to the final cut. We already know for example that they have worked on a shitload of more tracks that didnt make it for reasons unknown. We also know that PD was working on a free roaming portion that also didnt make it.

I feel that PD has been puting really way too much effort to small details which eventually ate up time and money

Some people also complain that rallying and nascar were half assed and they compare them with the official nascar games, Dirt or wrc games but having tried them all to me they all failed to capture the driving science , feel and physics of GT5's Rally and Nascar. Playing those sections with a wheel zero assists, full Ffb and in realistic simulation mode is unmatched by any racing of that genre I have tried on consoles

 

[fearsomepirate]

Yeah, but 75% of the assets are still last-gen quality. That number should be 0%. The problem with getting so many invisible details right is that so many of the visible details are crap. Get 100% of the game to have current-gen graphics, and then if you have anything left over, wig out on the Photo Mode stuff, modeling bolts and wires and seat belt grooves and stuff. But when 75% of your game is a PS2 game in HD, your priorities are totally out of whack. Exactly 0% of my in-game time should be spent looking at last-gen content.

If you insist on putting last-gen content in there, just include "GT4 HD" as a separate bonus game, like EA did with MoH:Frontline a couple years ago. But under no circumstances should I ever see a racing event in the main career mode that uses all last-gen cars.

 

[kots]

If you are talking about the reused tracks and cars yes. But the content that was done from scratch for GT5 has amazing work. The 250 premium cars in GT5 for that matter have the same attentio as the autovisya cars in Forza 4. Only 25 cars are in autovista. Wires, bolts, switches, buttons....all have modeled. The cars in Forza 4 minus the autovista didnt get the same treatment. In addition the tracks that have been made from scratch have amazing detail up to the slightest bump on the road has been accounted for to affect even the gameplay, whereas F4 tried to get mostly the looks of the tracks right. All car lights emit light into the environment including dust and rain spray. Also missing from Forza. In addition the tracks that include weather conditions and/or daynight cycles are a technical marvel with dynamic shadows and lighting unlike Forza 4 which has everything prebaked. Not to mention the changing variables as temperatures air resistance and humidity change in GT5.Even Horizon doesnt get the daynight cycle right. A portion of Horizon's transition from night to daylight is wrong/missing. The premium cars interiors are also "functional" in GT5. There are also other details in the game that arent noticeable to the eye. If GT5 didnt have the reused cars and tracks from GT4 people would have been paying better attention to the amazing stuff PD has achieved in GT5.
Lastly I am pretty sute many stuff didnt make it to the final cut. We already know for example that they have worked on a shitload of more tracks that didnt make it for reasons unknown. We also know that PD was working on a free roaming portion that also didnt make it.

I feel that PD has been puting really way too much effort to small details which eventually ate up time and money

Seems that you convenietly didn't mention about horrible tearing and slowdown . Maybe you forgot it ...

 

[djskribbles]

Seems that you convenietly didn't mention about horrible tearing and slowdown . Maybe you forgot it ...

What horrible tearing and slowdown?.

I don't know how you can say the game is 75% lastgen when you've owned it for all but what, 2 days? It took me months to complete the game.

Don't get me wrong, there are moments of ugliness in GT5, but once you get past the beginning, the game looks absolutely gorgeous for the most part. At its peak, there's no game that can touch it IMHO. I can see how some would prefer Forza's visuals, but they went for a slightly more vibrant and unrealistic look. PD are masters at getting the lighting right with the assets they have to make it almost look believably realistic, obviously more so in the cars themselves. As a racing sim fan and car enthusiast, that's what is important to me.

 

[poopypoo]

lol, I pretty much posted the same thing as fearsome last month, and arwin said mostly the same thing in response. to their credit, both are right. I think the special modes are bad, so I have mostly stopped playing, however, I still love the game. there are a lot of really nice details, perhaps the most satisfying of which is the bumps and dips in the tracks which make sure a nice difference to tracks we alrrady know and love. The car selection is really nice when you get over the fact they are butt ugly and you have to wait for them. Which again brings me to the main problem. The game is ugly, that's fine. Gameplay over graphics right? So why do we have to wait so long to PLAY the game? What could the game possibly be calculating when pressing triangle in the garage, or viewing standard model cars in the garage? To say nothing of loading the ugly career life menu or the options menu or the tuning menu etc... Just feels like they missed an opportunity to turn a minor flaw into am asset. Instead we get a major flaw.

 

[fearsomepirate]

I haven't seen "moments" of ugliness. I've seen a PS2 game in HD with some textures replaced and HDR lighting.

Don't get me wrong...I've played the game all day, so obviously I'm enjoying it. But I'm enjoying it in that "What a great $15 game" way. I would pay $15 for a 720p remastering of GT4, so I consider this a good value. I just can't believe that the mighty GT series has fallen from being a graphical flagship to being mostly recycled PS2 content. So much of it feels like a budget title, yet it cost $80m to develop! I also shouldn't have to play for hours to be able to see new content. And it sure would be nice if there were some current-gen models for the old cars. :-\

And yes, it is around 75%...I read online that 811 cars are GT4 models, and that's a little over 75% of the total car count. I don't know if I've seen a track that wasn't just reskinned GT4 content yet. I didn't play hours and hours of that game, so I don't remember the names of tracks.

 

[djskribbles]

The standard cars range from good to crap with most of them looking fine. Most of the cars that look really bad are the ones no one really cares about. Sure, if you go out buying mostly standard cars, I guess you could say that 75% of the cars look bad. But when you get further into the game, you start getting more money and the majority of the cars you'll get (and race against) will be premium models. The game gets better as you play.

To each their own I guess. All I'll say is that I'm not one to judge a game's visuals when I've barely scratched the surface of the game. I don't play the first ~5% of a game and read the internet to form a judgement.

GT5 is the only game to me that is even remotely close to realism as far as visuals. They don't do it with the best track-side detail or textures, they do it with incredible lighting, attention to detail on the car models, and have very talented artists to make it look believable. And as far as being a racing sim, it has the most accurate driving model on console IMHO.

I don't want to turn this into a vs thread so I'll try not to go on further on comparing the visuals between the two, but that's just my opinion.

 

[fearsomepirate]

I don't buy it, djskribbles. You wouldn't be making those kinds of excuses for any other game. You sound like a Final Fantasy fan saying it's okay for the first 20 hours of FFXIII to be boring and pointless because eventually, it stops being terrible. It's not okay for so much as 1% of a current-gen game's assets to be recycled from last gen. It's not okay for a current-gen marquee racing sim to have only 250 current-gen quality models in it.

I've played the game for seven hours. I've seen no more than one current-gen model in any race (excluding my own car). I've seen several tracks that are clearly partially reskinned GT4 tracks. That's unacceptable. Both numbers should be zero. Even if only the first 5% of the game reused GT4 assets (which is totally false; I'm past the beginner events and still seeing mostly PS2/PSP-quality cars on the tracks), that's 5% too much. It's unacceptable for more than the first 0% of a current-gen game to be recycled content from a last-gen game.

I'm simply holding PD to current-gen standards. In the current gen, you don't pass off models from a PS2 game as "standard."

It's a great bargain title. I absolutely recommend it to anyone looking for a racing game worth $15.

 

[djskribbles]

I'm not making any excuses for PD. There is a lot to hate or improve on in GT5 and it's far from perfect. Like some questionable looking tracks, some terrible/medicore looking standard cars, the UI/menu system, the engine sounds etc. But that doesn't take away how much good is in the game. The variety of races, amount of vehicle selection, the excellent driving model/gameplay, the times when the game is visually stunning (which is the majority of the time for me, after the first 10 or so hours) and the attention to detail on the vehicles are the things that I, a sim racer fan and car enthusiast, care about the most. There is so much content in GT5 that the good FAR outweigh the bad for me, is what I'm trying to say, both visually and overall game-wise. I wouldn't give a game with 1-2 piss poor levels a 5-7/10 if the rest of the game was brilliant.

Sure it starts off a bit slow (and ugly at times), but GT5 is not a typical racer where you're done in 8-15hrs -- it takes much longer to complete, and it gets better as you play (although nearing the end is kind of a drag with the endurance races, and I'm not a fan of NASCAR at all). I have literally put over 100hrs into this game. I bought it on launch when it was even worse than it is now, and if I would've rated it in the first 5-10hrs, I would've given it an 8 at best. But now, after completing it and after all the updates, I can honestly give it a 9+ and say that it was my favorite game this gen, hands down.

GT5 has never been for casual/arcade race fans, it has always been for hardcore sim fans/car enthusiasts. That's why I think that it is generally scored lower than competitors on gaming sites, but at the same time, sells much more. Casual race fans may never like GT5, but GT5 is obviously satisfying a lot of the GT fanbase because it has sold 7.4m copies as of Dec. 2011. It's more than just a good bargain title to us race sim fans. To many of us, while it's not on the usual level of polish of PD's standards, it's still one of, if not the best racing games on console. GT5 is a love it or hate it type of game. I can understand that some might find it bland or boring. But in the sim racer community, it's generally well accepted.

And just to add to all of that, playing with a good wheel makes the experience so much more enjoyable.

 

[Nesh]

Seems that you convenietly didn't mention about horrible tearing and slowdown . Maybe you forgot it ...

So? Irrelevant. My reply would have been the same even if fearsomepirate mentioned it himself because you simply missed the point. Regardless, you re blowing it up to bigger proportions than it really is. It has some slowdown and tearing in heavy scenes.Horrible? No.

There. Read again in case you get it.

If you are talking about the reused tracks and cars yes. But the content that was done from scratch for GT5 has amazing work. The 250 premium cars in GT5 for that matter have the same attentio as the autovisya cars in Forza 4. Only 25 cars are in autovista. Wires, bolts, switches, buttons....all have modeled. The cars in Forza 4 minus the autovista didnt get the same treatment. In addition the tracks that have been made from scratch have amazing detail up to the slightest bump on the road has been accounted for to affect even the gameplay, whereas F4 tried to get mostly the looks of the tracks right. All car lights emit light into the environment including dust and rain spray. Also missing from Forza. In addition the tracks that include weather conditions and/or daynight cycles are a technical marvel with dynamic shadows and lighting unlike Forza 4 which has everything prebaked. Not to mention the changing variables as temperatures air resistance and humidity change in GT5.Even Horizon doesnt get the daynight cycle right. A portion of Horizon's transition from night to daylight is wrong/missing. The premium cars interiors are also "functional" in GT5. There are also other details in the game that arent noticeable to the eye. If GT5 didnt have the reused cars and tracks from GT4 people would have been paying better attention to the amazing stuff PD has achieved in GT5.
Lastly I am pretty sute many stuff didnt make it to the final cut. We already know for example that they have worked on a shitload of more tracks that didnt make it for reasons unknown. We also know that PD was working on a free roaming portion that also didnt make it.

I feel that PD has been puting really way too much effort to small details which eventually ate up time and money

Some people also complain that rallying and nascar were half assed and they compare them with the official nascar games, Dirt or wrc games but having tried them all to me they all failed to capture the driving science , feel and physics of GT5's Rally and Nascar. Playing those sections with a wheel zero assists, full Ffb and in realistic simulation mode is unmatched by any racing of that genre I have tried on consoles

 

[kots]

I don't buy it, djskribbles. You wouldn't be making those kinds of excuses for any other game. You sound like a Final Fantasy fan saying it's okay for the first 20 hours of FFXIII to be boring and pointless because eventually, it stops being terrible. It's not okay for so much as 1% of a current-gen game's assets to be recycled from last gen. It's not okay for a current-gen marquee racing sim to have only 250 current-gen quality models in it.
I've played the game for seven hours. I've seen no more than one current-gen model in any race (excluding my own car). I've seen several tracks that are clearly partially reskinned GT4 tracks. That's unacceptable. Both numbers should be zero. Even if only the first 5% of the game reused GT4 assets (which is totally false; I'm past the beginner events and still seeing mostly PS2/PSP-quality cars on the tracks), that's 5% too much. It's unacceptable for more than the first 0% of a current-gen game to be recycled content from a last-gen game.
I'm simply holding PD to current-gen standards. In the current gen, you don't pass off models from a PS2 game as "standard."
It's a great bargain title. I absolutely recommend it to anyone looking for a racing game worth $15.

My main problem with the game is the menu , the ui , car selectability , finding what cars are eligible , excess loading , things like these ...feels dated.
Graphics are nice , don't have a major problem with them . I really like the lighting , the day/night cycle on some tracks , lots of dynamic shadows (if a bit ugly) , night time races , variable weather conditions...really nice stuff. But it comes at the expense of tearing and slowdown . Especially tearing , it's quite distracting some times .
Lots of tracks , some of them are very beautiful - the premium cars are gorgeous as expected ... the standard ones are passable , get the job done .
The actual racing is very good and enjoyable , no problem here . Between the "campaign" mode, special events , license tests there 's a lot of content to keep one occupied . Haven't really tried the online mode , cannot commend here .

It's a great bargain title. I absolutely recommend it to anyone looking for a racing game worth $15.

At 15 is a steal , that's a very low price for the game. Absolutelly recommended , i think it's price range is between 20-30 $. I bought it at 50 when it was released ....

GT5 is an 8 for me , could go higher ... i could say a few things about Forza 4 but i don't know if it's permitted in this thread .

 

[kots]

So? Irrelevant. My reply would have been the same even if fearsomepirate mentioned it himself because you simply missed the point. Regardless, you re blowing it up to bigger proportions than it really is. It has some slowdown and tearing in heavy scenes.Horrible? No.
There. Read again in case you get it.

Well , you analyzed Forza and all of the negatives , but i see no mention about it's rock solid 60 fps and absolutely no tearing at all . Some people could say that's a huge plus right there .

dynamic shadows and lighting unlike Forza 4 which has everything prebaked

That's not true . F4 has dynamic shadows( but not at the same level as GT5) ... the other day i was having a license test in GT5 and the corines had not shadowing at all - i played a test track in F4 with hundreds of them , all with real time shadows.
And the cockpit shadows , dynamic in both games , with a jagged look on gt5 , nicely filtered in F4 . So it's not black and white .

 

[djskribbles]

There are definitely pros and cons to F4 and GT5's visuals, and it's definitely not black and white. I can see how people prefer one over the other, both visually and gameplay wise. They're two of the best sim racers on console, but even if they're in the same genre, they're still considerably different.

 

[Nesh]

That's not true . F4 has dynamic shadows( but not at the same level as GT5) ... the other day i was having a license test in GT5 and the corines had not shadowing at all - i played a test track in F4 with hundreds of them , all with real time shadows.
And the cockpit shadows , dynamic in both games , with a jagged look on gt5 , nicely filtered in F4 . So it's not black and white .

If you read more carefully you would have understood that I was referring to the speficic tracks that feature weather conditions and/or daynight cycles. That includes all visible lighting and shadows in the whole track. Even if not all objects cast shadows, it is still more taxing and advanced to have all these shadows and lighting change including weather changes that may occur along with the day night changes than a combination of prebaked and some real time shadows. Not to mention than in a game that does not exhibit real time changes you cant really discern what shadows are real time and which arent with certainty. There is no comparison in that respect and its funny to even try to compare them.

Secondly and most importantly you assumed I am trying to prove that GT5 is better in every way (hence your argument about not being black or white). My reply was just a counterargument to fearsomepirate's specific arguments that the game looks old gen'ish, and isnt doing anything remarkable compared to F4. And to do that I referred to the things that PD did better and/or remarkably well. If you got that from the beginning you would have understood that my reply was actually an "its not everything black about GT5" reply. But you really want to talk about the things that Forza does better and that PD cant do a good job. You complained because I dont talk about the "black" in GT5 like slowdowns and tearing which you decided to add some spice of "horrible" too. Yep its not black and white. You shouldnt be concerned then when I add some shade of white to the black surrounding GT5 then

So your arguments about the things that you believe Forza4 does better are completely irrelevant and off topic in this thread and are more suitable to a vs thread, or the Forza thread or to some technical discussion that focuses specifically to a game comparison.

 

[kots]

So your arguments about the things that you believe Forza4 does better are completely irrelevant and off topic in this thread and are more suitable to a vs thread, or the Forza thread or to some technical discussion that focuses specifically to a game comparison.

Nah , my arguments are just fine ... you started the vs in the first place , i was just pointing out some of your mistakes since you don't have both games ....
Anyways lets not continue this , it's like beating a dead horse by now . It's obvious you really love the game , i like it too and let's leave it at that .

 

[Arwin]

Nah , my arguments are just fine ... you started the vs in the first place , i was just pointing out some of your mistakes since you don't have both games ....
Anyways lets not continue this , it's like beating a dead horse by now . It's obvious you really love the game , i like it too and let's leave it at that .

Talking about a dead horse, the jagged cockpit shadows are pretty much gone in GT5 now too. Also have both games, but yeah, I agree that we should probably leave the topic to the comparison thread (I think there even is one. ).

 

[fearsomepirate]

Well, I am certainly not complaining about the quality of the gameplay! I played it for almost seven straight hours yesterday (took a supper break). I haven't gotten that absorbed by a racing game since GT4 (I do not own an Xbox; played Forza 4 in a game shop IIRC).

I didn't find tearing or slowdown to be an issue after I switched to 720p.

I am definitely not a "serious" racer. I always use the racing line, and my favorite ways to win races are building an overpowered car and driving like an asshole. Like yesterday, I did one of the seasonal races, a World Classic Championship. I'm sure it would have been really interesting to take some 1965 Renault and perfect my cornering. Or...I could buy a 1969 Corvette, spend 20K credits on upgrades, and blow by that 1965 Renault at 110 mph on the straightaway.

 

[Nesh]

Nah , my arguments are just fine ... you started the vs in the first place , i was just pointing out some of your mistakes since you don't have both games ....
Anyways lets not continue this , it's like beating a dead horse by now . It's obvious you really love the game , i like it too and let's leave it at that .

Continuing with your assumptions? Your arguments would have been fine under a different context. It was like beating a dead horse from the beginng because you were irrelevant. Especially when you start coming up with conclusions such as "you dont have both" or feeling I was trying a "vs" discussion. Its like someone cant talk about the areas that GT5 raised the standards compared to whats out there because some guy will get annoyed when a title he likes happened to be mentioned as a an example to measure.

Talking about a dead horse, the jagged cockpit shadows are pretty much gone in GT5 now too. Also have both games, but yeah, I agree that we should probably leave the topic to the comparison thread (I think there even is one. ).

They did? Its been a long time since I played GT5.
I am not using my PS3 lately due to a HDD problem and I am waiting for a HDD replacement to be delivered
Is there a youtube video that shows the improvements?

 

[Cheezdoodles]

gameplay over graphics right? So why do we have to wait so long to PLAY the game? What could the game possibly be calculating when pressing triangle in the garage, or viewing standard model cars in the garage? To say nothing of loading the ugly career life menu or the options menu or the tuning menu etc... Just feels like they missed an opportunity to turn a minor flaw into am asset. Instead we get a major flaw.

The insane amount of loading between menus is INSANELY STUPID!!!! Its the most frustrating thing with the whole game. Whatever you wanna do, it's loading! FFS THEY MANAGED TO MAKE A AMAZING LOOKING GAME - WHY DOES IT TAKE !@&!!!/! 30 seconds to go out of the tune up menu??? It's almost like they wasted all the money on premium cars, some nice tracks and ran out of money for the menu system - then letting a crack addict make it!

The menu system is 10 years outdated!

/rage

However, the actual gameplay, after all the stupid unnecessary loading - is the best driving model I have ever played!

I learned to drive a car with gt4 (might explain why my ex always told me I drove like a maniac) and gt5 is a lot better than that. It's as close to perfection as I have seen wrt driving physics!

Love it for all it flaws. Dot care about standard cars, I'd rather have 250 beautiful ones- and 800 fugly ones as an added bonus than just the 250...

Forza is good, but has to much grip.

 

[poopypoo]

Yeah gt5 is a very fun game to drive. I'm not sure that F3 had a lot more grip; I found it a lot more common to get more oversteer than you bargained for in that game than in GT5. However the lack of verticality in the game makes a big diff wrt grip and handling. Obviously without more study I'm just guessing but I feel as though the F3 tire model is more convincing, but the added spring effects and bumps help GT5 seem more unpredictable. Either way, it's sorta nitpicky to me. I also mainly groan about the loading. Also I really feel the GT menu needs modernization; your current car should almost always be front and center, no matter how ugly it is, and multiple screens are unnecessary for tuning and picking tracks and stuff.