Middle Generation Console Upgrade Discussion [Scorpio, 4Pro]

[chris1515]

the first one being exclusive shouldn't have had an effect on it's sales for the second one, unless you're telling me all Sony folks are overly bitter AF users. Then it _could_ explain why MS is doing so poorly LOL.

I am sure of it, same thing for Mass Effect(not so high number for a quality franchise 5 millions if I remember correctly for the best sales of the franchise for Mass Effect 2 multiplatform it would have at least double sales of this). When you don't launch a new Ip on a console you don't create community for it for the second and third one. I am sure if we have the number the third TitanFall it will tbe he same things.

Out of obscure japanese stuff it is stupid too to launch a new IP only on Playstation... If you want to be multiplatform after...

EDIT: I only speak of third party IP...

 

[chris1515]

Mass Effect or TitanFall or Tomb Raider IP aren't big enough for succeed as exclusivity on Playstation or Xbox... Out of probably COD, Minecraft, Battlefront, Battlefied and GTA no other franchise can do it...

Edit:for being more precise not lost sales being exclusive if GTA is exclusive to Playstation or Xbox it is game over for the other console...

 

[chris1515]

And for rumour, if RDR2 launch at end of the year, the new Assassin's Creed will probably launch first quarter 2018...

 

[iroboto]

I am sure of it, same thing for Mass Effect(not so high number for a quality franchise 5 millions if I remember correctly for the best sales for Mass Effect 2 multiplatform it would have at least double sales of this). When you don't launch a new Ip on a console you don't create community for it for the second and third one. I am sure if we have the number the third one for TitanFall it will tbe he same things.

Out of obscure japanese stuff it is stupid too to launch a new IP only on Playstation... If you want to be multiplatform after...

EDIT: I only speak of third party IP...

I dunno. If they released PS4 exclusives to XBOX I'm sure people would buy. This reasoning doesn't seem strong imo.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

Small litmus test. But
Haswell E corei7 Are only 384GFLOP. And we run a massive amount of havoc physics on it.

Could you really ideally run 1.5 TF of physics on GPU? That would be equivalent to 4 of those CPU full tilt?

Not to get into a computing pissing competition but we routinely run jobs requiring exaflops of physics calculations. Physics in many games is still janky because it's crudely modelled. Better than it's been for years but still crude. Sometimes it doesn't matter but wouldn't you rather not have janky physics? Have better animation like body crumpling and so on? Better cloth and material simulation? Better line of sight, or more realistically modelled detection for sounds?

Could you really ideally run 1.5 TF of physics on GPU? That would be equivalent to 4 of those CPU full tilt?

Easily. And more.

 

[chris1515]

I dunno. If they released PS4 exclusives to XBOX I'm sure people would buy. This reasoning doesn't seem strong imo.

The Witcher 3 sold more than 10 millions games. Mass Effect 2 only 5 millions. I play mostly on Playstation and even if Mass Effect Andromeda was a 90+ metacritic game, it would not be my priority and of many Playstation gamer because we were not here for the beginning of the franchise...

Edit: I like action RPG and TPS

 

[iroboto]

Not to get into a computing pissing competition but we routinely run jobs requiring exaflops of physics calculations. Physics in many games is still janky because it's crudely modelled. Better than it's been for years but still crude. Sometimes it doesn't matter but wouldn't you rather not have janky physics? Have better animation like body crumpling and so on? Better cloth and material simulation? Better line of sight, or more realistically modelled detection for sounds?

Easily. And more.

I see the applications of where you are going with this.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

I see the applications of where you are going with this.

Right. And later this year Scorpio will have a stonking great number of teraflops to allow fantastic game mechanics. But you won't see games doing anything really interesting with this for years because of the Xbox One. The time when Scorpio can be exploited will be when it's the cheap Xbox console because something new has launched allowing even more impressive games that won't happen for years because then Scorpio will hold it back.

Generationless is great. In theory. If you don't care that the technology can't be fully exploited until you're ready to replace it.

 

[chris1515]

It would have been logical if Microsoft have buy Bioware for work on Mass Effect franchise in my opinion...

 

[iroboto]

Right. And later this year Scorpio will have a stonking great number of teraflops to allow fantastic game mechanics. But you won't see games doing anything really interesting with this for years because of the Xbox One. The time when Scorpio can be exploited will be when it's the cheap Xbox console because something new has launched allowing even more impressive games that won't happen for years because then Scorpio will hold it back.

Generationless is great. In theory. If you don't care that the technology can't be fully exploited until you're ready to replace it.

But you stated earlier that HSA is a requirement for this low latency GPGPU. How will PC resolve this ?

 

[Deleted member 11852]

It would have been logical if Microsoft have buy Bioware for work on Mass Effect franchise in my opinion...

To get Bioware Microsoft would need to buy Electronic Arts which is valued at around $10Bn. $12-14Bn in reality if you know you're being acquired. That is more than the operating value of the division in Microsoft where Xbox sits. So uh, a cold day in hell before that happens. It would be a greater chance of EA buying Xbox. Also a very cold day in hell.

But you stated earlier that HSA is a requirement for this low latency GPGPU.

When both CPU and GPU are working on separate parts of the same problem. There are plenty of things you can throw to the GPU. Or brute force around.

 

[ProspectorPete]

If they buy EA then at last they will have some exclusives: TitanFall 3, Dead Space 4, Battlefield One 2, Battlefield 5, Mass Effect: Interstellar, Need for Speed 2018, Mirrors Edge 3, Fifa, NBA, NFL, NHL, Tiger Woods, and so on. Battlefield Hardline 2 is probably also coming out.

Maybe not buy EA, but merge with them?

 

[iroboto]

When both CPU and GPU are working on separate parts of the same problem. There are plenty of things you can throw to the GPU. Or brute force around.

Fair enough.
I guess I was responding to this quote

And you have to igore the state of PC GPUs because they're not relavent in consoles. PC games are not habitually using compute on GPU because it's a much more challenging proposition to pull off on PC. You have two RAM pools seperated by a slow local bus. Interchanging general processing on an 80x86 core quickly with compute on the GPU is far easier on a console. because the APU was designed with this in mind. And number of GPUs with adequate compute support in PC land is pretty damn sparse and the cost to GPU performance and further saturation of the local bus already trying to feed the GPU fast enough.

There is no useful correlation that can be found by looking at the state of things on PC, it's a different setup.

Lets just assume for discussion sake, everything you say comes true. Assume that both PS5/XB2 have arrived and are equipped with 12TF of compute power or more. They decide to use a huge chunk of it not for graphics, just purely calculations. Whatever that amount is, it's processing amount is going to be significantly greater than what the best CPU on the market can do.

Will they have problem scaling the game back to PC? or will PC become this weird bottleneck anyway making these scenarios not ideal to begin with?

 

[chris1515]

To get Bioware Microsoft would need to buy Electronic Arts which is valued at around $10Bn. $12-14Bn in reality if you know you're being acquired. That is more than the operating value of the division in Microsoft where Xbox sits. So uh, a cold day in hell before that happens. It would be a greater chance of EA buying Xbox. Also a very cold day in hell.



When both CPU and GPU are working on separate parts of the same problem. There are plenty of things you can throw to the GPU. Or brute force around.

Bioware was not link to EA all their existence, I think MS could have done it during maybe it was before the 360 but it was a possibility...

I don't remember when EA bought Bioware...

 

[mrcorbo]

But you stated earlier that HSA is a requirement for this low latency GPGPU. How will PC resolve this ?

Intelligent caching and faster chip to chip interconnects.

 

[chris1515]

Kotor, Jade Empire when I think of Bioware it is linked to the Xbox..

 

[Deleted member 11852]

Fair enough. I guess I was responding to this quote

Right. Because the CPUs in consoles are so far behind PC, throwing complex tasks at the GPU is a solution for a lot of problems. And where compute is than less ideal, mix it with CPU leveraging AMD's APU advantages.

Lets just assume for discussion sake, everything you say comes true. Assume that both PS5/XB2 have arrived and are equipped with 12TF of compute power or more. They decide to use a huge chunk of it not for graphics, just purely calculations. Whatever that amount is, it's processing amount is going to be significantly greater than what the best CPU on the market can do.

It may be possible to do that on many configurations of PC GPU as well. Don't confuse consoles may need a CPU+GPU solution as PC doesn't have this so it can't do it. Developers are pretty adept is using different hardware, or configurations of similar hardware, to achieve a solution using different methods. If it really can't then publishers need to decide which platforms they really want to support.

This is getting into theoretical PC vs. console debate which is O/T.

Intelligent caching and faster chip to chip interconnects.

Sure. If you have gigaytes of cache, a coherency solution which doesn't exist even on massively parallel server architectures and you can retrofit a faster/wider bus to all existing PCs and graphics cards. Simples.

 

[AlNom]

Bioware was not link to EA all their existence, I think MS could have done it during maybe it was before the 360 but it was a possibility...

I don't remember when EA bought Bioware...

They were bought out for $860M in late 2007.

 

[mrcorbo]

Sure. If you have gigaytes of cache, a coherency solution which doesn't exist even on massively parallel server architectures and you can retrofit a faster/wider bus to all existing PCs and graphics cards. Simples.

He asked for a solution. That's the solution and it's what AMD most obviously are doing with their re-conceptualizing of the graphics card framebuffer to being a local cache for the GPU and their Infinity Fabric which is in both Vega and Ryzen. Not sure what the timetable for this to be fully realized is, but the direction they are moving in is pretty clear.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

Bioware was not link to EA all their existence, I think MS could have done it during maybe it was before the 360 but it was a possibility...

Conventional wisdom ten years back was RPGs did not have mass market appeal on consoles and it was niche genre largely confined to PC gamers. Elder Scrolls Oblivion helped convince a bunch of console gamers, myself included, that RPGs could be accessible but I think it's broadly fair to say that RPGs became more mainstream through simplification of traditional hardcore RPG mechanics, rather than the mass market being more interested in RPGs as they used to be made.