Middle Generation Console Upgrade Discussion [Scorpio, 4Pro]

[mpg1]

I would be surprised if most of the first party games don't get at least a simple patch, apart from old forza's and horizon 2, and couple others. If I was them I'd even try to get some of the third party exclusives patched up, ryse, qb.

lots of games have pc versions to get assets from, etc.
it's a simple way to somewhat show the difference and have Scorpio patched games at launch, without having to invest too much. May actually be offset a bit by sales, as many under performed, but I suspect some people would pick them up. Not saying will suddenly sell millions.

I think Halo 5 and will likely be more than a simple patch for Scorpio...probably be a full uwp version getting rid of esram optimizations and reworked for new memory system...also wondering it will have there will be a PC version released as well. Gears of War 4 probably in same boat...

I'm a little skeptical older forza's will be patched...if only because they seem to be on yearly release cycle now anyway. So Forza 7 out this year will likely be built for Scorpio anyway. Although Forza Horizon 3 was a uwp game so maybe that thing is already running on Scorpio devkits.

 

[JPT]

I would be surprised if most of the first party games don't get at least a simple patch, apart from old forza's and horizon 2, and couple others. If I was them I'd even try to get some of the third party exclusives patched up, ryse, qb.

1st party sure, but if going by the number of Pro patches that has been done, we might not get that many Scorpio patches either. By that I mean games that have already been released. I assume that MS has a cut of date, where all games must have Scorpio patch.
Then again, did MS not say that it old games would run better on Scorpio with no modifications?

 

[mpg1]

1st party sure, but if going by the number of Pro patches that has been done, we might not get that many Scorpio patches either. By that I mean games that have already been released. I assume that MS has a cut of date, where all games must have Scorpio patch.
Then again, did MS not say that it old games would run better on Scorpio with no modifications?

This is one of the knocks against Scorpio imo. A lot of Xbox One games (basically 4 years worth) will look no different than what you can get on Xbox One S. Even the year gap...games like Battlefield, Titanfall 2 and Mass Effect: Andromeda will end up looking better on PS4 Pro.

 

[JPT]

This is one of the knocks against Scorpio imo. A lot of Xbox One games (basically 4 years worth) will look no different than what you can get on Xbox One S. Even the year gap...games like Battlefield, Titanfall 2 and Mass Effect: Andromeda will end up looking better on PS4 Pro.

But does it really matter? They are "old" games, there will probably be a new Call of Duty and Battlefield to play at that time anyway. So yes, Titanfall 2, will not look better, but it will run better, we assume. But is the game still alive at that point in time?

 

[mpg1]

But does it really matter? They are "old" games, there will probably be a new Call of Duty and Battlefield to play at that time anyway. So yes, Titanfall 2, will not look better, but it will run better, we assume. But is the game still alive at that point in time?

yeah I know...I was mainly complaining about Mass Effect: Andromeda haha. That one I would like to have optimized for Scorpio...

Also it's only missing the 'cut' by about 8 months.

 

[iroboto]

But does it really matter? They are "old" games, there will probably be a new Call of Duty and Battlefield to play at that time anyway. So yes, Titanfall 2, will not look better, but it will run better, we assume. But is the game still alive at that point in time?

I would imagine so to a degree; it's why they've invested so much in 360 BC, this is along the same nature. Some games may never get a sequel, like Ryse, or Sunset Overdrive.

 

[Jay]

I think Halo 5 and will likely be more than a simple patch for Scorpio...probably be a full uwp version getting rid of esram optimizations and reworked for new memory system...also wondering it will have there will be a PC version released as well. Gears of War 4 probably in same boat...

I'm a little skeptical older forza's will be patched...if only because they seem to be on yearly release cycle now anyway. So Forza 7 out this year will likely be built for Scorpio anyway. Although Forza Horizon 3 was a uwp game so maybe that thing is already running on Scorpio devkits.

that's why I said the old forza ms and horizon 2 won't get patched. Not when you got a forza ms coming this year and only worth doing horizon 3.
I agree that some will/should get more than a simple patch. Halo 5 has got pc forge engine etc, gears got pc versions.

1st party sure, but if going by the number of Pro patches that has been done, we might not get that many Scorpio patches either. By that I mean games that have already been released. I assume that MS has a cut of date, where all games must have Scorpio patch.
Then again, did MS not say that it old games would run better on Scorpio with no modifications?

they will run better unpatched but, it would be worthwhile having updated versions to bolster release catalogue of better looking games. When pro came out many people said couldn't see much of a difference. More patched games more visible difference can be shown. With not that much work for many first party exclusives.
I'm not saying spend lots on it.

I'm not expecting 3rd parties to patch old games.

 

[JPT]

I would imagine so to a degree; it's why they've invested so much in 360 BC, this is along the same nature. Some games may never get a sequel, like Ryse, or Sunset Overdrive.

This is where ymmv vs mine, I have not played a PS3 game after buying the PS4. By that I mean any game I bought for the PS3 or that was relased for the PS3 before PS4 release. I never even booted the PS3 after buying the PS4, actually I booted it once, when I de-registered it and formated the hdd before giving it away with all my games.
I bought Last of US remasted for PS4, but never bothered to actually replay it.

I would love to see actual numbers on BC usage, I know we can not, but after actually buying into the BC "hype" on the PS3, I found my self not playing any PS2 games on it.

So how many will actually go back and play Ryse and Sunset Overdrive, when Scorpio launches? I have no numbers to back me up, but if people are like me (and my closest friends), I think it's an abysmal low number .

 

[tuna]

This is where ymmv vs mine, I have not played a PS3 game after buying the PS4. By that I mean any game I bought for the PS3 or that was relased for the PS3 before PS4 release. I never even booted the PS3 after buying the PS4, actually I booted it once, when I de-registered it and formated the hdd before giving it away with all my games.

My counter-anecdote: I finished Yakuza 5 before midwinter and plan to start Way of the Samurai 4 soon on the PS3.

 

[function]

I still happily play 360 era games (or older) on my PC.

The real value of BC comes when you have digital games, so games of all ages are just there ready to go. No digging them out of a crate anywhere. BC's biggest moment - on consoles at any rate - is yet to come when we go fully digital. PC is already there.

May Ace Combat 5 and Metal Slug never die!

 

[Michellstar]

I still happily play 360 era games (or older) on my PC.

The real value of BC comes when you have digital games, so games of all ages are just there ready to go. No digging them out of a crate anywhere. BC's biggest moment - on consoles at any rate - is yet to come when we go fully digital. PC is already there.

May Ace Combat 5 and Metal Slug never die!

Yep, Its blurs the concept of BC, it´s just a digital library of games, many of them that you can play or buy at any time.
Letting devs focusing on new content

 

[iroboto]

This is where ymmv vs mine, I have not played a PS3 game after buying the PS4. By that I mean any game I bought for the PS3 or that was relased for the PS3 before PS4 release. I never even booted the PS3 after buying the PS4, actually I booted it once, when I de-registered it and formated the hdd before giving it away with all my games.
I bought Last of US remasted for PS4, but never bothered to actually replay it.

I would love to see actual numbers on BC usage, I know we can not, but after actually buying into the BC "hype" on the PS3, I found my self not playing any PS2 games on it.

So how many will actually go back and play Ryse and Sunset Overdrive, when Scorpio launches? I have no numbers to back me up, but if people are like me (and my closest friends), I think it's an abysmal low number .

Right! I'm generally with you with the whole replay thing. I don't replay games unless they are super good or it's multiplayer.

That being said, and as the others added their 2cents, if you've never played the game before, it's great to have it on BC. Or in this case, if Scorpio is your first XB of this generation, I'm sure people would appreciate improved performance on all their games they've never had the chance to play. It's a selling point to know that you are no longer getting some sort of gimped experience (if you are somehow swayed more by pixels than the gameplay itself).

 

[iroboto]

My counter-anecdote: I finished Yakuza 5 before midwinter and plan to start Way of the Samurai 4 soon on the PS3.

You gotta tell me more about these yakuza games, I just completely ignore them. Why are these titles so popular ?

 

[Silent_Buddha]

yeah I know...I was mainly complaining about Mass Effect: Andromeda haha. That one I would like to have optimized for Scorpio...

Also it's only missing the 'cut' by about 8 months.

I wouldn't worry too much about that. The developers would know as much about Project Scorpio as any other developer. And they'll have been working on a PC version anyway.

I'd be extremely surprised if ME: A didn't take advantage of Project Scorpio.

Regards,
SB

 

[JPT]

Right! I'm generally with you with the whole replay thing. I don't replay games unless they are super good or it's multiplayer.

That being said, and as the others added their 2cents, if you've never played the game before, it's great to have it on BC. Or in this case, if Scorpio is your first XB of this generation, I'm sure people would appreciate improved performance on all their games they've never had the chance to play. It's a selling point to know that you are no longer getting some sort of gimped experience (if you are somehow swayed more by pixels than the gameplay itself).

Now, if this works as we believe, that there will be full BC/FC on MS platforms going forward, kudos to MS. And they have done something good for the consumer, question is how many actually cares. I understand people not having played GTA V want to play it, sure, but I am guessing there is just a handful of games like that. Does anybody really care about Call Of Duty/Battlefield N releases back?

Now Sony and MS looks to have different views on the matter here, Sony wants to do a generation, they think that to get the generational leap and the best out of the hardware you need to do that. MS looks to be taking the approach that full BC/FC is more important and maybe they even disagree with Sony about the generational leap. IE incremental releases will give big enough leaps on eye candy/features in games.

If Sony is right and you need a massive HW change, then they will for certain cater to the hardcore market (excluding the PC master race here). But will the more casual/mainstream market care? Will they do PS5 or do a Scorpio Refresh model with their library intact? Lot of people jumped from X360 to PS4 this gen (I think that is the assumption at least) and lost their library.

If MS is right that the frequent refresh of hardware is equal to doing generational leaps, then Sony is probably in a world of hurt, due to the perceived extra value the BC/FC will have.

It will be fun to see whom gets it most right.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Does anybody really care about Call Of Duty/Battlefield N releases back?

Those are the wrong games to consider. It's the smaller, more niche titles that don't have sequels which people want to revisit. eg. I'd like to play BGDA from PS2 again because there isn't anything like it on PS4 (and PS3 versions weren't as good). Also games like Kurushi Final (PS1) or Rogue Galaxy which are stand alone titles. Or Star Control or UFO Enemy Unknown which went years without sequels and saw people wanting to revisit them on PC.

I've argued that BC doesn't sell consoles, and I'll stick with that in so much as people want a new machine to play new games. However, going back far enough there is interest in revisiting older titles and that adds value and a sense of security. The knowledge that if you find a gem on one generation, you'll be able to revisit it on subsequent generations is appealing.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

i do wish Cerny would have gone through another public technology briefing like he did with OG PS4 but alas I don't think it's happening.

He is most likely to speak at a dev conference, GDC at San Francisco is later this month

Now Sony and MS looks to have different views on the matter here, Sony wants to do a generation, they think that to get the generational leap and the best out of the hardware you need to do that.

Why do you think this?

 

[mpg1]

Whether it's through emulation, virtual consoles or remasters....BC is more popular than one would think...

You could argue the core of Nintendo's entire software lineup for 30 years has been either BC or remakes...

 

[Kirk Siddals]

Now, if this works as we believe, that there will be full BC/FC on MS platforms going forward, kudos to MS. And they have done something good for the consumer, question is how many actually cares. I understand people not having played GTA V want to play it, sure, but I am guessing there is just a handful of games like that. Does anybody really care about Call Of Duty/Battlefield N releases back?

Now Sony and MS looks to have different views on the matter here, Sony wants to do a generation, they think that to get the generational leap and the best out of the hardware you need to do that. MS looks to be taking the approach that full BC/FC is more important and maybe they even disagree with Sony about the generational leap. IE incremental releases will give big enough leaps on eye candy/features in games.

If Sony is right and you need a massive HW change, then they will for certain cater to the hardcore market (excluding the PC master race here). But will the more casual/mainstream market care? Will they do PS5 or do a Scorpio Refresh model with their library intact? Lot of people jumped from X360 to PS4 this gen (I think that is the assumption at least) and lost their library.

If MS is right that the frequent refresh of hardware is equal to doing generational leaps, then Sony is probably in a world of hurt, due to the perceived extra value the BC/FC will have.

It will be fun to see whom gets it most right.

Traditional generations also set the install base back to zero again at the start. Can't see Devs being happy about that. Beauty of MS's approach is the install base will be the same, if not a bit higher due to the new console sales, and the game will scale across hardware. Hard generations split up the playerbase and friends lists. With MS's approach you can still play with friends that haven't upgraded. The power increase from XB1 to Scorpio will be within the 5x to 10x increase that you usually get from a new generation. Just because it's called an incremental upgrade doesn't mean the power increase has to be less. Sony only gave a 2x increase in this first instance but it doesn't always have to be that way, just depends on what hardware innovation is made between increments.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

The power increase from XB1 to Scorpio will be within the 5x to 10x increase that you usually get from a new generation.

No it won't. A hardware generation sees massive gains across the board in every aspect, pretty much. Scorpio won't have 4x the bandwidth, 4x the memory increase (incredibly small by new gen standards), 4x the CPU power. It has (as per current understanding) a 4x increase in GPU TFs over XB1S. Even factoring in bonus feature like FP16 and maybe a notably better CPU, it's not going to be enough of a hardware advance as we expect from previous generations.

Just because it's called an incremental upgrade doesn't mean the power increase has to be less

The fact it's only been 4 years as technological progress is slowing means it has to be less. A true 8x increase over XB1 probably isn't possible for a few years. We'd need stacked RAM well beyond 1TB/s and 32+ GB (only a 4x increase but much more if same OS 4 GB reservation).