Boost isn't a perfect solution. From their massaging it seems that they expect some inconsistencies that users should take care of them.
Middle Generation Console Upgrade Discussion [Scorpio, 4Pro]
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Boost isn't a perfect solution. From their massaging it seems that they expect some inconsistencies that users should take care of them.
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Deleted member 11852
Guest
That's my take too. I would expect Boost to be enabled or disabled by default and enabled/disabled on a per title basis based on the beta experiences.
It'll be interesting to see which it is! If Sony adequately planned for this then Boost mode will be the default.
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I am 100% with you and this is why I am really quite surprised by Boost mode. Sony have never demonstrated any forethought for forward-looking software or hardware design in order to deliver backward compatibility on something in the future. It's always been shoe-in lastgen hardware. Of course, and it's easy to forget, that PS4 was designed by somebody different.
Me too, me too.But the fact that code written for 2013 hardware even works and works better in different 2016 hardware without patches suggests more than a modicum of forward planning. And it's hard to imagine PS4 Pro not being at least an idea or concept before PS4 launched.
That shouldn't be much of a surprise given how 4Pro is seemingly just 2x GPU with slight CPU clock boost and 512Meg more ram. Nothing drastically different from the old hardware, from a software development standpoint. Yes there are some new features in the GPU area but you don't have to use them.
Because you think PS5 will not be backward compatible with PS4? When Mark Cerny said generation continue to exist for Sony, it means no plan for forward compatibility between PS4 and PS5... The choice of x86 was for ease of use and backward compatibility...
Like curent generation we will see cross gen games probably a bit longer this time with the PS4 Pro mid generation...
When you want to keep your customer into your ecosystem with the growth of digital game sales, backward compatibility is the normal way to work...
Forward compatibility is a bit different...
How do we know that? They did not explicitly say that. So it could just as likely mean the opposite of what you're saying.
You take the bet? It is a world of ecosystem. Backward compatibility is the key... With the rise of digital sales with PSN and Xbox Live it is stupid to not try to retain consumer into your ecosystem with the new hardware...
And when developer will decide to abandon the PS4 platform it will be like the transition between PS3 and PS4 but this time it will not be brutal with a better transition no fucking cell processor in PS4...
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Deleted member 11852
Guest
"nothing drastically different" is absolutely huge in real terms though. I know that's what you expect on a modern software platform but we're talking PlayStation here
Do you remember PlayStation 2 compatibility on non-Japanese/North American launch PlayStation 3 hardware and how shit it was? How there is no PlayStation 3 emulation at all? Sony have never designed with a view to running today's code on tomorrow's hardware - that's always been tomorrow's problem or, as in the case of PS3, something to conveniently ignore.So this is massively unexpected. It suggests that, at the very least, they thought about it. That's.. HUGE. For Sony.
Yup. One of major pluses for Microsoft would have been the inability or decision by Sony not to have BC on PS5. But this boost mode proves the are working on it in my opinion.
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Deleted member 11852
Guest
Maybe, maybe not. It suggests Sony thought about it but Pro could just be the result of the point where AMD's design is sufficiently compatible with PS4's architecture before it diverts to a point where it's just not feasible to offer an enhanced-but-compatible console. Time will tell.
If it means games will look and run better on tomorrow's hardware than todays then that is surely a good thing for consumers - the impact on dev houses to remaster things is another matter. But some games genuinely deserve a remaster. That said, I think technology is close to the point where remasters will be less appealing. The games being remastered or 'reimagined' are typically games where many technical compromises had to be made to get them to run on the target hardware. Not always, but mostly.
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Boost Mode is a really neat and welcomed feature, but you should not misread the situation.
Microsoft is offering Forward and Backward Compatibility from now on with UWP on both Xbox and Windows 10. They talked about hardware and software separation for Xbox consoles and it is no accident. They designed Xbox One from beginning so it's OS could evolved and I expect them to design Scorpio in the same way if not better and more future proofed. They already changed the amount of ram (from the evidence), bandwidth and GPU architecture in Scorpio and I expect to see different CPU, too. Scorpio is going to be an entirely new hardware that takes the advantage of UWP for BC/FC.
On the other hand Sony utilized a very deliberated and thought-out pre-designed arrangements to achieve middle-generation hardware upgrade with Pro. PS4/Pro Mode, same Jaguar CPU, doubled Compute Unites and nearly same amount of ram. It's more like Nintendo's approach (GC/Wii). However x86 may let them to have proper PS4/Pro BC on PS5 but even then that's not what MS tries to go after:
A continues Hardware (Console/PC) and feature evolution on top of well defined Operating System with FC/BC and all other benefits that one can expect.
Microsoft is offering Forward and Backward Compatibility from now on with UWP on both Xbox and Windows 10. They talked about hardware and software separation for Xbox consoles and it is no accident. They designed Xbox One from beginning so it's OS could evolved and I expect them to design Scorpio in the same way if not better and more future proofed. They already changed the amount of ram (from the evidence), bandwidth and GPU architecture in Scorpio and I expect to see different CPU, too. Scorpio is going to be an entirely new hardware that takes the advantage of UWP for BC/FC.
On the other hand Sony utilized a very deliberated and thought-out pre-designed arrangements to achieve middle-generation hardware upgrade with Pro. PS4/Pro Mode, same Jaguar CPU, doubled Compute Unites and nearly same amount of ram. It's more like Nintendo's approach (GC/Wii). However x86 may let them to have proper PS4/Pro BC on PS5 but even then that's not what MS tries to go after:
A continues Hardware (Console/PC) and feature evolution on top of well defined Operating System with FC/BC and all other benefits that one can expect.
I wouldn't mind seeing remasters of Mario, Zelda, Mario Kart on superior hardware from Sony, Microsoft, or PC s. But I think that's a different topic all together.
I don't think boost mode shows that their thinking or laying ground work for bc at all, from 2013 or now.
all the work for compatibility was already done for 4pro, adding switch to allow it to run faster (releasing some restrictions) but possibly buggy was easy to do.
now it's up to gamers to decide if game is running ok. the option should've been there from start, but at least it's there now.
for the record I suspect/expect ps5 to have bc, just don't think boost mode is any kind of proof their aiming for it though.
all the work for compatibility was already done for 4pro, adding switch to allow it to run faster (releasing some restrictions) but possibly buggy was easy to do.
now it's up to gamers to decide if game is running ok. the option should've been there from start, but at least it's there now.
for the record I suspect/expect ps5 to have bc, just don't think boost mode is any kind of proof their aiming for it though.
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Deleted member 11852
Guest
Exactly. The biggest technical hurdles for forwards compatibility is planning for it at all. Pro's Boost mode is, as best, a sign that Sony have been thinking about this for a while or, at worst, a proof of concept that that PS4 code can be abstracted and run fine on similar but different hardware. I'm not sure anybody at this point is predicting PS5 hardware is going to be much different than AMD +4 years architectural improvements.
Hmmmm...
for me the fact that there's some architectural differences between ps4 & 4pro shows the possibility of bc more than boost mode, that's just a side affect that they've decided to give option to.
bc is one thing, fc is a totally different beast, and not all technical.
especially given cerny's talking about all the side effects and the tests they ran, to why they didn't allow it.
they should release the details so people know which games have which problems.
Silent_Buddha
Legend
The whole idea of a Steam console was dead in the water and a bit of a red herring due to it's general reliance on Linux. Which then meant that you had to persuade developers to make a Linux version of their game in addition to a Windows version. And in the case of AAA developers, a PlayStation and Xbox version as well.
That's a tall order to ask for when it was just starting out. And the tepid adoption of the Linux version of Steam (not to mention the even more lukewarm reception for a Steam console based on Linux) means there isn't a whole lot of reason for a AAA developer to release a Linux version of their game that would run on a Steam "console."
Basing it Windows would have been smarter, but then you have to include a license for Windows and that further erodes the value proposition compared to an actual console. Besides which gaming PCs already existed which is what that would basically be.
Microsoft have a leg up on Windows as a console in the form of Xbox as console games are going to continue to be developed for it. They aren't asking developers to take a chance on making yet another version of a game that may or may not have a large audience for it. As well, if they do make future games for Xbox basically the same as the UWP version of the game, then developers will only be developing for Windows/Xbox (one platform) and PlayStation. Added to that, Microsoft is working to have Win32 apps (games) available in the UWP store via a UWP wrapper. So while a native UWP game would be optimal, there is an out there in case UWP fails to be picked up on PC.
That all means that regardless of how much market share PlayStation gets at the expense of Xbox, there will always be games written for Xbox unless Microsoft decides to stop producing Xbox machines.
Regards,
SB
I don't see that one would need hardware for that. On Scorpio the flag placing a buffer in the eSRAM when allocating it will simply be ignored (that is a software choice). As the eSRAM is part of the same address space as the rest of the RAM (it's really a unified address space between eSRAM and DDR3) and doesn't have any special features (the GPU can access both as equal citizens, ROPs work on both memory pools, the TMUs can texture from both, the shaders can read and write buffers in both), the software doesn't really see a difference between them (beside the speed). MS could very likely disable the eSRAM of the XB1 with a firmware update without having the games crashing (performance probably tanks, though).
Dolby Atmos support for Windows 10 and Xbox. All headphone output will be able to choose Dolby Atmos for headphones or Microsoft HRTF. There's even an option to force enable it for all games. All of the menu options for that are in the current Xbox OS preview, but right now they don't work.
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