Because CPU-dependant things are far less scalable than GPU-dependant things, for example, everything(AFAIK) still runs on a desktop version of X1's gpu, but a lot of games simply don't run on even better cpus, than jaguar. In numbers, GPU scale - ~15 times, CPU - ~5, at best, jaguar is at absolute bottom right now, PS5 CPU could be 6 times more powerful, with 4 times, imo, being given.
2-3 years, 2, most likely, since, 7nm Zen(~= full blown 14nm desktop Zen that Scorpio won't have) - check, Na'vi - check, HBM - check, (somewhat)mature techprocess - check, it might be not worth waiting another year(for what?) from a timing perspective, especially if targeting $499, ~190W from the get go.
Right but right now games scale from i7s down to jaguar. Do you believe that Zen will be that much more powerful than current i7s ? Even Zen in 2020 you think will be that much more powerful over an i7 that it simply can't be scaled to jaguar ?
See I think your wrong. I think what you might see is in games like assasians creed you get smaller crowds and maybe zones chopped up a bit more but I still think it will work. After all I can play games on my dual core i5 inside my surface pro 1 with 4 gigs of ram that also run on my r 9 290 and quad core i7 3830 .
Then you go into navi check and hbm check and so what ? Unless your advocateding that Devs will drop all support for the ps4 and ps4 pro the moment scorpio comes out because it has Vega in it and faster arm and more ram and maybe scorpio . You make little sense.
I understand you might want Sony to be this great company that makes the most amazing systems ever but it they will still be bound by tech and the fact that ps5 will start with a 0 install base while the xbox one , ps4 , ps4 pro and scorpio will all have install bases when it comes out.
"Could be" is the key word, i don't see why there would be. "Just slower Zens", but still not up to par(Switch also got Maxwell(or Pascal), but it won't make it run games that run on Titans), that alone screams about how unlikely it is, even if it is possible(think not, i haven't seen anything regarding low-power Zen), post from June that might help to illustrate my logic:
Wait so whats skyrim ? Skyrim runs on titans and runs on switch...... What black magic is this !!!!
Zen requires way more investment, yet doesn't warrant any return at such stage.
Except it does. From what we know of crackdown is that some of it will need the cloud for its destruction. and with zen that might not be needed . WE also see on the pc side that games will still scale with cpu. Take a bulldozer and compare it to a newer core i7 and the bulldozer will fail to keep up in frame rate. So there is a return on investment there if MS wants to hit 4k . If they want to make larger more immersive games with more npcs and so on.
I don't see how, in order to make sure it even works(especially since your version of Scorpio has Zen in it), devs would still have to focus on a PS4/X1 versions first, and why would anyone, other than few select devs even design for Scorpio first anyway? It's infinitely unlikely to ever get larger active paying audience than PS4(P)/X1. There is already millions upon millions in "Zen-based tier", PC gamers, plus i'm not saying everyone would just abandon everything the minute PS5 comes out, i'm saying no one would stop half-way for the reasons already mentioned.
There is always a transition or did you forget all the games that existed on the ps3/xbox360 and xbox one / ps4 ? There will be games that scale across generations. Even games that scale from the switch up to scorpio. And shock the same thing happens on the pc with games that can run on intergrated crappy graphics on 3 or 4 year old laptops and sli titans. I know it may seem amazing to you but this is how it is. Some of those xbox 360 games... they still work and scale very well on multi titan setups .
And as you say there are millions of zen tier pc gamers. For 3rd party devs there are millions of reasons to support zen in the xbox scorpio if it happens. The major one is that by supporting and optimizing for it in scorpio they will see improvements in the desktop and mobile editions of those chips and vice versa . But the other one is that it will be easier to take code that runs on intel core i7 and move it to a zen in scorpio than to a jaguar. There will be less compromises and it will result in better games.
P.S. I'm not interested in arguing, merely expressing my opinion, this situation is all sorts of mind-boggling to me, and while i do go into detail where one can be easily wrong, to illustrate at the core this topic is pretty fundamental and it doesn't change overnight.
well its weird that you would post to a forum in which we have discussions if you don't want to discuss anything and then of course reply to my post.
Look its simple. If Scorpio has zen in it , it will still get supported. Here are the reasons
1) Scorpio will have a user base install advantage over the mythical ps5 . It doesn't matter if it has a year head start or 3 years. Scorpio will still have a lead and we can argue either way about how much but it doesn't change that it will have a lead.
2) Developers want the easiest path . As you say millions of pc gamers have Zen level Cpu setups currently. Zen is closer to intel i5/i7 than jaguar and thus ports will require less compromises and thus less money.
3) MS is going to sell Scorpio for years even after an xbox three hits. MS has reaffirmed there are many more years of support for xbox one and xbox one s just today on twitter. And also Sony isn't stupid either. People will stop buying consoles and more importantly will stop buying mid cycle upgrades if they find they dropped $400 to just get 2-3 years of support out of them. Because it seems to be what your suggesting here.
