Middle Generation Console Upgrade Discussion [Scorpio, 4Pro]

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Not sure I agree. Presumably PS5 would run games at 4K standard....which means it would take A LOT of GPU power to make those games look and feel next gen over even PS4...like probably 25-30TFlops. So yeah if Sony decides to wait and release a PS5 in 5-6 years.
Again, it's not going to be the Flops that make the difference of a new generation but other hardware features that mean we can do more with the available Flops. But I acknowledge that it may not happen, and we may not have generations any for for precisely that point that diminishing returns means we can't get far enough ahead. Or it could mean longer generations, and PS5 in 2022. Although if so Scorpio still won't be a next-gen machine and the need to go all-out on it is diminished.
 
Again, it's not going to be the Flops that make the difference of a new generation but other hardware features that mean we can do more with the available Flops.

For me it's necessarily even performance that marks a new generation. What defined this generation for me was immediacy (near instant sleep/wake) because despite having less time to game now, I game more on PS4 than I did with PS3 because I can get pause and re-start games easily.
 
This depends entirely on what appears on Scorpio. If all we see on Scorpio are 4K XB1 games, Sony will be able to release a new console that feels all new and exciting. If Scorpio is sufficiently beefy and allowed to stretch its legs (notably creating optimised 1080p60 games), then PS5 would just look like a 4K Scorpio. And IMO the only way we'll see that is if MS treat Scorpio as a new generation with Scorpio exclusives, blockbuster launch titles that don't run on XB1, and just have XB1 games as a 'BC feature'.

I'm not so sure that's necessarily a "thing." I'm going to use a PC example, because I always do and it appear that Microsoft is moving in that direction. Well not directly. Not a PC as in IBM PC compatible, but PC as in a Windows machine. So we'll have Windows PCs and a Windows console.

If we look at it like that. Let's say we have a rolling 3-4 year "cycle" for when new hardware is released. And every cycle, the one previous to the current cycle can still run all the games the current cycle can run, perhaps at lower FPS, resolution, IQ or some combination of those things. However, if you go to the console that is 2 cycles behind, it may or may not be able to run whatever comes out even at reduced settings. If assume that might be the case, that basically fits with PC gaming as it currently exists. Everything released this year is basically playable on hardware that was released 3-4 years ago, but may or may not be able to run on hardware released 6-8 years ago.

Now lets add onto that with an assumption that each hardware release is meant to be marketable and sold for 2 cycles. So in the above example a console comes out and is expected to be sold and supported for 6-8 years.

When is the new generation? Starting with the first cycle, that may be the 3rd cycle. But the 2nd cycle would see a new "generation" at the 4th cycle. Etc. Put another way starting from the first cycle you wouldn't see a new "generation" going by the "exclusives" definition until the 3rd cycle. But once you hit that 3rd cycle, you have a new generation every single cycle as every cycle will see exclusives released that won't run on a console 2 cycles behind it.

IMO, we may no longer see "generations" as we've typically thought of generations going forward. Or we'll see one company do so while the other doesn't. So something like
  • Console A.
    • Console release, updated console released 3-4 years later.
    • 3-4 years later new console released that is incompatible with the previous 2 consoles, updated new console released after 3-4 years.
    • Repeat. This would be like the old console generations, except with a mid-gen premium update.
  • Console B.
    • Console 1 release.
    • Console 2 released 3-4 years later.
    • Console 3 released 3-4 years later, Console 1 may or may not be able to play games released after this point.
    • Console 4 released 3-4 years later, Console 1 & 2 may or may not be able to play games released after this point. Etc.
    • Repeat, this is a PC like generation change.
So Console A would fit some peoples expectations of a new generation breaking with the previous generation in some way. On the other hand, Console B has overlapping generations with new titles guaranteed to run on the previously released console and possibly on consoles that are 2, 3, 4, or more cycles old.

Console B would also mean that there's a strong possibility that indie games or small budget games released 10-12 years after that console was released might still be playable on that console. Many Steam games that are released this year can and will run on PC hardware that was released 10-12 years ago, and more rarely, 15-20 years ago.

Regards,
SB
 
mosen is back.
I remembered that an Spanish website released the first rumors about Scorpio which was full of technical problems. Considering that new information are also from an Spanish site I tried to find the previous source. Then I found this Eurogamer Italy article and then this website:

In-Depht Xbox Scorpio: system memory and the operating system design

Take it as you want. It seems that new informations are taken from this site.
you are back! I thoroughly enjoyed the read. You never know whether it's true or not, but it's fun nonetheless. The google translator in my language translated the "in depth" part of the very beginning of the article into "Inside the Scorpio probe", as if it was a space probe. :LOL:
 
mosen is back.

you are back! I thoroughly enjoyed the read. You never know whether it's true or not, but it's fun nonetheless. The google translator in my language translated the "in depth" part of the very beginning of the article into "Inside the Scorpio probe", as if it was a space probe. :LOL:

Thank you. :D

It's likely fake but I think that Microsoft already utilized similar technologies in Scorpio. A customized GPU from VEGA series that utilizes some NAVI tech and also a new CPU (not necessarily Ryzen) that uses newer tech.

I'm sure that Scorpio will be a next-gen console from hardware perspective (for 3-4 year lifespan) but not necessarily the direct competition for PS5. Competing with PS5 will be the duty of Scorpio 2 which probably will launch at similar time frame (just like PS4 & Xbox One).
 
A problem I see with the sliding window approach to software compatibility is the difficulty of communicating this concept to consumers. Part of the appeal of consoles is that if you see an ad on TV for a game and it features the Xbox One branding, that's a game you can buy for your Xbox One. If you are in a store and you see a game that has the Xbox One branding on it, that game will run on your Xbox One. Now MS introduce Scorpio and make it very clear that you can still buy anything labeled Xbox One and run it on your Scorpio. Cool. Now MS introduces a new model and it can also run anything labeled Xbox One and Scorpio can run anything that is designed for the new box, but now you need to let people who have OG Xbox Ones know that they can't. How do you communicate this with simple branding?
 
A problem I see with the sliding window approach to software compatibility is the difficulty of communicating this concept to consumers. Part of the appeal of consoles is that if you see an ad on TV for a game and it features the Xbox One branding, that's a game you can buy for your Xbox One. If you are in a store and you see a game that has the Xbox One branding on it, that game will run on your Xbox One. Now MS introduce Scorpio and make it very clear that you can still buy anything labeled Xbox One and run it on your Scorpio. Cool. Now MS introduces a new model and it can also run anything labeled Xbox One and Scorpio can run anything that is designed for the new box, but now you need to let people who have OG Xbox Ones know that they can't. How do you communicate this with simple branding?

Something like this but much simpler and tailored for Xbox consoles that shows the supported consoles and include the main specification for each version (resolution, frame-rate, etc.) on the box:

upload_2017-1-28_18-55-50.png
 
mosen is back.

you are back! I thoroughly enjoyed the read. You never know whether it's true or not, but it's fun nonetheless. The google translator in my language translated the "in depth" part of the very beginning of the article into "Inside the Scorpio probe", as if it was a space probe. :LOL:

Oh, it wasnt space it was probing ... Scrotio Probe.
 
It's easy. We have Xbox One. Games are advertised as 'XBox One'. Then we have Xbox One Scorpio and games are still advertised as 'XBox One'. Next we have Xbox One Scorpio Delta and games are advertised as 'XBox Scorpio', thereby including every box with Scorpio in the name and excluding those without. Next, XBox One Scorpio Delta Kismet, with games advertised as 'only on Xbox Delta'. The ones and scorpios need to be kept to show the boxes support older games.

:yep2:

My fee for this idea will be very generous, Microsoft!
 
A problem I see with the sliding window approach to software compatibility is the difficulty of communicating this concept to consumers. Part of the appeal of consoles is that if you see an ad on TV for a game and it features the Xbox One branding, that's a game you can buy for your Xbox One. If you are in a store and you see a game that has the Xbox One branding on it, that game will run on your Xbox One. Now MS introduce Scorpio and make it very clear that you can still buy anything labeled Xbox One and run it on your Scorpio. Cool. Now MS introduces a new model and it can also run anything labeled Xbox One and Scorpio can run anything that is designed for the new box, but now you need to let people who have OG Xbox Ones know that they can't. How do you communicate this with simple branding?

Simple.

You'll have the name of the latest console on it. And then the lowest supported console.

So for example, lets say we're 4 consoles into this new console paradigm. Parenthetical comment wouldn't be on the box/advert obviously.

Game X - Best experienced on Xbox Z (4th console, most current console). Xbox T (2nd console in the series, 2 cycles old) or higher supported.

The minimum supported console cycle might just be listed on the back of the package or at the bottom of the advertisement.

So the main Advertisement will have Game X - Designed for Xbox Z in bold and emphasized. Then at the bottom in smaller text or on the back if it's a box, it'll have Xbox T as minimum supported console.

At any point, you only need to mention 2 consoles no matter how many cycles into the paradigm you're at. The latest one just to try to get people to upgrade to the latest console, and then the minimum so people will know what it'll run on.

Older games being resold/re-released might just have the minimum spec (Runs on Xbox T and newer). Or maybe it'll be enhanced in some way. So you could advertise, Enhanced for Xbox Z, original experience for Xbox T.

Regards,
SB
 
It's easy. We have Xbox One. Games are advertised as 'XBox One'. Then we have Xbox One Scorpio and games are still advertised as 'XBox One'. Next we have Xbox One Scorpio Delta and games are advertised as 'XBox Scorpio', thereby including every box with Scorpio in the name and excluding those without. Next, XBox One Scorpio Delta Kismet, with games advertised as 'only on Xbox Delta'. The ones and scorpios need to be kept to show the boxes support older games.

:yep2:

My fee for this idea will be very generous, Microsoft!

OK, that could work. It ties you to some awfully cumbersome naming for your products, though!
 
Simple.

You'll have the name of the latest console on it. And then the lowest supported console.

So for example, lets say we're 4 consoles into this new console paradigm. Parenthetical comment wouldn't be on the box/advert obviously.

Game X - Best experienced on Xbox Z (4th console, most current console). Xbox T (2nd console in the series, 2 cycles old) or higher supported.

The minimum supported console cycle might just be listed on the back of the package or at the bottom of the advertisement.

So the main Advertisement will have Game X - Designed for Xbox Z in bold and emphasized. Then at the bottom in smaller text or on the back if it's a box, it'll have Xbox T as minimum supported console.

At any point, you only need to mention 2 consoles no matter how many cycles into the paradigm you're at. The latest one just to try to get people to upgrade to the latest console, and then the minimum so people will know what it'll run on.

Regards,
SB

If this is something they pursue, I'd rather they re-introduce something like the Windows Experience rating and display that prominently on hardware (as capability), software (as a requirement) and in the device UI. This has the advantage of allowing them to tie the PC in as well as this rating could apply to a PC in Game Mode.
 
Thank you. :D

It's likely fake but I think that Microsoft already utilized similar technologies in Scorpio. A customized GPU from VEGA series that utilizes some NAVI tech and also a new CPU (not necessarily Ryzen) that uses newer tech.

I'm sure that Scorpio will be a next-gen console from hardware perspective (for 3-4 year lifespan) but not necessarily the direct competition for PS5. Competing with PS5 will be the duty of Scorpio 2 which probably will launch at similar time frame (just like PS4 & Xbox One).
It might well be, but I really enjoy these things. Even so, typical warning signs with these "classic" rumourology stuff is the typical colleagues chit chat. I mean, the guy might be right, but the interview is kinda....you know it's not DF material so to speak.

For instance....:

X-Rays: Hello Tom, it feels a little, but we rely on the information, the right quality?
Tom: Of course, my dear, you know, look at only the presence of new information, I will not waste time and risk too much.

X-Rays: I take it then that you have new information on Scorpio, am I right?
Tom: Well said!

X-Rays: I'm all ears, go ahead!
Tom: It 's all! (ride) (Laughs)

X-Rays: Ah, well an info that will surely appeal to fans ...

X-Rays: All clear! You've been very kind Tom, thanks again!
Tom: To you, hello!
 
I think you guys are reading into this too much. I doubt you will ever have more than 3 consoles supported at one time and that would most likely last a year.

So xbox one 2013 -> xbox two 2017 -> Xbox three 2021

in 2022 - Xbox two 2017 _> xbox three 2021 xbox one support is now dropped with the last few games releasing.

in 2025 xbox two 2017 -> xbox three 2021 - > xbox four 2025 and in 2026 the last of the xbox two stuff comes out and its no logner supported with new games.

In this set up the consoles get 8-9 years of support Ms would most likely phase out selling new hardware for the oldest system before the newest comes out. So the xbox one would stop selling new hardware in 2020 and at that point it be rock bottom pricing. That way the xbox two would slip down into its price range and make room for xbox three at the top of the hill .

Boxes can just say Xbox one / two on the top . When they support all three Xbox one / two / three on it and then just down to xbox two / three again that's if they even use discs that long out.

I wouldn't be surprised if to get the xbox one closer to the $100 mark that they remove the optical drive and just make a small form factor like the intel nuc that only plays digital games but is priced low
 
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