Killzone 2 pre-release discussion thread

[djskribbles]

these are multiplayer shots, so maybe they're not as far in development for MP. i doubt they would strip shadows for the final game.

 

[TrungGap]

these are multiplayer shots, so maybe they're not as far in development for MP. i doubt they would strip shadows for the final game.

While this might true. Zed claimed that the shadows were the in the two shots posted earlier. While the rest of us, scratching our heads and adjusting the contrast on lcd screen trying to see it.

 

[Gitaroo]

the bottom left one very obvious, you can tell right away, gun firing to the left and cast character shadows to the right. The lighting in KZ2 is at least as good as Stalkers on PC, (like every light source can cast shadows) if not better.

 

[zed]

heres one of my game's (every single light casts shadows), the engines been the same since 2005. ie I've had quite a bit of experience in picking these things up.
http://nz.youtube.com/watch?v=piPq3mLFlW0

explanation is that not all lights are created equal and some will not cast shadows.

yes that is correct, Im not arguing against that, not only do u flag lights as non shadow casting u also take into consideration size of screenspace, what geometry is contained etc

Red eyes: I don't think there are any shadows; the reason why it's not illuminating the entire cloth in front of his mouth is that the normals are facing away.

yes partly correct, eg the encircled green part, but why is only the corner below lit, even though the normals of the mesh just to the up + also right of it are also facing towards the light.
A/ cause geometry is obscuring the light

 

[Kittonwy]

Then let them go play Halo and COD4 - where is it written that all games have to look, feel or even play in the same manner

Jack

Turning, movement and aiming have to feel responsive, those are cornerstones of good controls, regardless of the type of shooter. They don't have to be at the same speed obviously since the speed of the actual games are different, but the speed of turning, the accuracy/precision of the aiming, the speed of the movement all have to match what you require the player to do and the scenarios the player operates in.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

yes partly correct, eg the encircled green part, but why is only the corner below lit, even though the normals of the mesh just to the up + also right of it are also facing towards the light.
A/ cause geometry is obscuring the light

How can you be sure those are a light-source and the red isn't just painted on? The eyes are constantly illuminated and so you could add the glow. also with the position of the mask, I think pretty much all light would be occluded from the mask anyway. If I were the dev, I'd probably flag the eye lightsources, if they are lightsources, as non-shadow-casting.

 

[jlippo]

I'm pretty sure that characters in no shadow images are not in a direct light at all, most likely they are in area of ambient light.
KZ2 does use baked GI solution for ambient.

Contact shadows would make those images a lot better.

 

[RenegadeRocks]

I had noticed lack of shadows too, but only in the Multiplayer trailer and screens released. They are saying that the graphics are the same in MP and campaign but apparently they don't seem to be the same.

 

[Cheezdoodles]

..yes partly correct, eg the encircled green part, but why is only the corner below lit, even though the normals of the mesh just to the up + also right of it are also facing towards the light.
A/ cause geometry is obscuring the light
..

This is simply a character model with self shadowing is it not?

What exactly are you trying to prove? There is an obvious lack of shadows in some parts of the game.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Contact shadows would make those images a lot better.

AO type contact shadows are depressingly absent from most games still, with conventional shadows being the only aspect grounding them to the scenery.

 

[RenegadeRocks]

http://www.gametrailers.com/player/usermovies/262294.html

Heres a video of someone playing the beta ! I didn't know there was one underway ! Anyways it shows the menu screens and all too ! The menu looks cool !

 

[Betanumerical]

http://www.gametrailers.com/player/usermovies/262294.html

Heres a video of someone playing the beta ! I didn't know there was one underway ! Anyways it shows the menu screens and all too ! The menu looks cool !

I have a strange feeling thats just him playing a video. If it wasn't, why aren't we hearing more about this.

 

[patsu]

The item is under the "game" icon though. The KZ2 beta is rumored to start soon. So this is probably a private/internal beta like what R2 is going through now. There are at least 3-4 betas on the PS3 at the moment (Home, R2, Socom, LBP).

EDIT: Oh and MotorStorm 2 beta is coming next week too.

 

[Arwin]

It looks rather convincing, I must say.

 

[Betanumerical]

The item is under the "game" icon though. The KZ2 beta is rumored to start soon. So this is probably a private/internal beta like what R2 is going through now. There are at least 3-4 betas on the PS3 at the moment (Home, R2, Socom, LBP).

EDIT: Oh and MotorStorm 2 beta is coming next week too.

Could be a video of someone else playing it is what I mean.

 

[zed]

How can you be sure those are a light-source and the red isn't just painted on? The eyes are constantly illuminated and so you could add the glow. also with the position of the mask, I think pretty much all light would be occluded from the mask anyway.

I think its safe to assume the red comes from a single light since its the same color as it (which is like I said before) positioned in front of the eyes + not where the eyes are.

If I were the dev, I'd probably flag the eye lightsources, if they are lightsources, as non-shadow-casting.

why? if its can perhaps gonna take up a fair portion of the screen, eg I assume this guy is one of your teammates, I assume theres gonna be occasions in cutscenes etc when the face takes up a large portion of the scene, sure the other guys redeye lights prolly are to small onscreen that they dont bother about generating the shadowmaps.

where are the shadows here?
http://tcal.net/wp-content/uploads/2006/10/savingprivateryan.jpg
result from a quick google of 'saving private ryan' as I knew the first scene was overcast, this is what I mean in reality lighting/shadowing is often illdefined boring

 

[Laa-Yosh]

The trouble is, all the KZ2 scenes have very easily identifiable direct lighting.

Oh, and how about using a slightly larger screenshot from Ryan with no uneven terrain to obscure the places where the soldiers' feet touch the ground. Something tells me there would be contact shadows.

And I'm also not sure about the eyes being actual lightsources, makes no sense when you can bake the effect into the texture. They shouldn't illuminate anything in the enviroment unless it's completely dark, which usually isn't the case. Putting one or two lights there is totally unnecessary.


But you know what, in the end all this discussion is completly useless. Just ignore all of the above and believe whatever you want to instead.

 

[patsu]

And I'm also not sure about the eyes being actual lightsources, makes no sense when you can bake the effect into the texture.

This I agree.

They shouldn't illuminate anything in the enviroment unless it's completely dark, which usually isn't the case. Putting one or two lights there is totally unnecessary.

This I am not sure because I have seen photos and videos where the Helghans' eyes lit up the wall in a "dark enough" room or that is close enough: http://www.gametrailers.com/player/34201.html

[gt]34201[/gt]

At 1:31 - 1:32 when the dying soldier's head faced the wall, you could catch a glimpse of the light from his googles reflected off the wall. Just 1-2 seconds before, the intense spots on the wall were caused by bullet impact. You may need to watch the HD one to catch it. I missed it in the SD video until someone on another forum pointed it out. Damn developers are crazy sometimes (for such minute details).

EDIT: Oh wait, the bullet "holes" on the wall are also created dynamically it seems.

 

[eoj]

....you could catch a glimpse of the light from his googles reflected off the wall.

http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee253/kevinpoon1982/2-1.gif
http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee253/kevinpoon1982/3-1.gif

 

[ultragpu]

they removed the smoketrail from the RPG in the pre-beta version apparently and i cant think of why.
http://boardsus.playstation.com/playstation/board/message?board.id=killzone2&thread.id=44977
hope they add it back in obviously coz right now it does seems abit weak.