I think what people are looking for is surprises. So far, they have not stunned us gameplay-wise. I am somewhere in the middle. There are some interesting weapons (sentry gun, C4), the AI looks promising but dumbed down in demoes, the weather weapons/effects were mentioned but not shown, the MP games won't be obvious until we play it. We got no gameplay bone to chew on yet.
Killzone 2 pre-release discussion thread
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the ignoramus
Regular
Yes, the AI, looks quite sound, it's the difficulty level (normal) that detracts from the sense of danger and the fact Guerilla hasnt shown any sort of enemy variety. We need different types of AI behaviours, like in Uncharted, the Helghast grunts dont have any sort of exotic behaviours.
Apparently KZ2 has variety in the AI, it just hasnt been shown. There are about 10 different Helghast classes and each have a differrent type of behaviour--one of them attempts to flush you out of hiding by blowing holes through walls, according to one of the devs--and each is designed to keep you on your feet.
One the thing that tells me that the AI isnt shit, is that the Helghast yell out context sensitive dialogue. For instance, when the player throws a grenade, one of the Helghast will yell "out of there" and he and anyone else in the area will attempt to get the hell out of the blast radius.
There's a .gif floating around on neogaf that has a player coming around a corner with a rocket launcher and confronting two Helghast heading towards him;one of the Helghast stops, then promptly heads for cover. No dumb AI does that.
Another example is when the player is on a turret, laying waste to the Helghast and you can see them running and scurrying in every direction for the closest available cover.
Also, in indoor areas, you can hear the Helghast saying "I hear you" and "show yourself" if they see or hear you coming around a corner.
It reminds me of the way the grunts operate in Halo 2 and 3, always chattering back and forth about where Master Chief is.
I think the problem with Killzone 2's AI is the matter of scripted entrances, like Helghast climbing over railings into a hail of bullets;that's a consequence of the scripted entrance, the pathfinding doesnt kick in until after the scripted entrance.
Apparently KZ2 has variety in the AI, it just hasnt been shown. There are about 10 different Helghast classes and each have a differrent type of behaviour--one of them attempts to flush you out of hiding by blowing holes through walls, according to one of the devs--and each is designed to keep you on your feet.
One the thing that tells me that the AI isnt shit, is that the Helghast yell out context sensitive dialogue. For instance, when the player throws a grenade, one of the Helghast will yell "out of there" and he and anyone else in the area will attempt to get the hell out of the blast radius.
There's a .gif floating around on neogaf that has a player coming around a corner with a rocket launcher and confronting two Helghast heading towards him;one of the Helghast stops, then promptly heads for cover. No dumb AI does that.
Another example is when the player is on a turret, laying waste to the Helghast and you can see them running and scurrying in every direction for the closest available cover.
Also, in indoor areas, you can hear the Helghast saying "I hear you" and "show yourself" if they see or hear you coming around a corner.
It reminds me of the way the grunts operate in Halo 2 and 3, always chattering back and forth about where Master Chief is.
I think the problem with Killzone 2's AI is the matter of scripted entrances, like Helghast climbing over railings into a hail of bullets;that's a consequence of the scripted entrance, the pathfinding doesnt kick in until after the scripted entrance.
the ignoramus
Regular
My favorite bit is when an ISA elbows a helghast and the helghast screams and puts his hands to his face! So great.Or when you come out with a rocket launcher and the Helghast sees it and runs away, cowering towards cover
This: http://i33.tinypic.com/nci8tx.gif
And notice the helghast kicking the dead bodies foot as he gets elbowed in the face
No that's wrong. Other people claim its an elbow too, but do you really think a guy of Garza's stature and strength could stagger a fully armed super soldier (which is what the Helghast are) with a flying 'bow?
He's hitting him in the face with the butt of his assault rifle, that's what makes it seem so brutal....and the fact that it is a dynamic happening!
My god, Guerilla, what are you guys doing?!
In regards to the lighting; I think the dark red glow of the Helghast's eyes is an extremely cool aesthetic--plus the eyes are dynamic light sources too, so imagine fighting these guys in a dimly lit little room, with destructable objects.
.No that's wrong. Other people claim its an elbow too, but do you really think a guy of Garza's stature and strength could stagger a fully armed super soldier (which is what the Helghast are) with a flying 'bow?
He's hitting him in the face with the butt of his assault rifle, that's what makes it seem so brutal....and the fact that it is a dynamic happening!
My god, Guerilla, what are you guys doing?!
In regards to the lighting; I think the dark red glow of the Helghast's eyes is an extremely cool aesthetic--plus the eyes are dynamic light sources too, so imagine fighting these guys in a dimly lit little room, with destructable objects.
If you've ever been elbowed in the nose...then yes it can hurt. Ever been hit in the face wearing glasses? The frame goes right into your head...I imagine the Helghasts little helmet with little red eyes might just hurt when impacted so directly.
Anyway, you seem to like it too and you may be right, after re-watching it.
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I find it amazing that you can judge if a games gameplay is good or not, based on a few pictures and a few movie clips. Your convinced the games gameplay will be awesome based on that alone?
RenegadeRocks
Legend
I found what I was looking for in the gamersyde video. So I am convinced, if you are not, keep looking......! no one's stopping you.
djskribbles
Legend
i agree that you can get a good idea of what the gameplay is like. there have been plenty of gameplay videos released. it just looks satisfying shooting the helgast (sp?).
also, to those who think the game looks flat, the gameplay videos at gamersyde probably give you a better indication of what the game looks like... again, the lighting looks fine imo.
also, to those who think the game looks flat, the gameplay videos at gamersyde probably give you a better indication of what the game looks like... again, the lighting looks fine imo.
Does this has been posted?
http://gamersyde.com/stream_8081_en.html
http://gamersyde.com/stream_8081_en.html
What's wrong with that?
I've only seen a few videos of LBP, KZ2, Resistance2, RE5, Siren, Dead Space, and Mirror's Edge, but every one of these titles looks amazing and will no doubt offer tons of fun.
Honestly, I don't see how one could call theirself a gamer and say LBP and Mirror's Edge in particular do not look like fun.
I've listened to Bloc Party's Mercury for 40+ times and I deleted Radiohead's In Rainbows (of which I actually bought and ripped).
Anything can happen. I still can't "absorb" KZ2 yet, when I happened to be hooked to Too Human from the first "improved" (not the E3 06 fiasco) gameplay video.
the ignoramus
Regular
Yes, the 1 minute Gamersryde/Blim Blim clip is something special isnt it?
I have literally had to mute the sound so that I could better concentrate on the details in that little clip.
For instance, I saw the Helghast flags waving over head, but I didnt notice the corresponding shadow sweeping back and forth over the staircase underneath the flag.
And that pistol seems so deadly and lethal, you feel as if the thing can take out a small army.
Also, I love Garza's animation, especially when he bursts through the door at the end and checks his corners, it's beautifully animated.
One thing that bugs me though is that the guys with the rocket launchers seem to run all over the place. The regular Helghast guys are smart and stick to cover, but the guys with the rockets seem to like sprinting out into the open.
Near the beginning one of them follows you around a blind corner and sprints right into your bullets. It's strange because I see so many instances of complex decision making on the part of the AI, then one Helghast trooper will do something stupid--seems like an implementation issue, I hope that's fixed.
Thats probably just the nature of AI. Its easy to make them do a few smart things, but its difficult to keep them from ever doing something stupid.
I want to play this game already, we've been seeing it for years now. Hopefully it will live up to potential the first game had, and just like the PSP game has.
I want to play this game already, we've been seeing it for years now. Hopefully it will live up to potential the first game had, and just like the PSP game has.
I deleted the OT tangent. ShaidarHaran's point was that it is possible to look at some videos and know whether you'll enjoy a game or not. eg. Looking at LBP, without ever having played the game, plenty of folk know they'll enjoy it. And he's looked at KZ2 gameplay footage and expects the gameplay to be fun. I broadly concur with that viewpoint, but I do also know a game can get tired or feel clunky etc. such that it's not as much fun as it looks in the trailers.
Anyway, whether you feel comfortable forming expectations of a game from trailers, or if you feel hands-on experience is essential to telling whether a game is any good or not, that doesn't really contribute to the discussion of KZ2, which, at the moment, we can only discuss as trailers.
Anyway, whether you feel comfortable forming expectations of a game from trailers, or if you feel hands-on experience is essential to telling whether a game is any good or not, that doesn't really contribute to the discussion of KZ2, which, at the moment, we can only discuss as trailers.
I think they only need to add:
* Some scripted moves (e.g., formation, desparate measures, communications)
* More randomness and variety in evasion (e.g., like Uncharted's diving, and sneaky "shoot from cover" techniques)
* Flanking
to give the illusion of a superior AI.
It's like in RFOM, the Chimeras are rather aggressive in pushing you back at the "right" moment (e.g., when reloading, or low on health, or when I try to flank them or stay out of sight for whatever reasons). In Uncharted, some pirates will yell "He's out !" when your rifle emitted the empty clip sound.
* Some scripted moves (e.g., formation, desparate measures, communications)
* More randomness and variety in evasion (e.g., like Uncharted's diving, and sneaky "shoot from cover" techniques)
* Flanking
to give the illusion of a superior AI.
It's like in RFOM, the Chimeras are rather aggressive in pushing you back at the "right" moment (e.g., when reloading, or low on health, or when I try to flank them or stay out of sight for whatever reasons). In Uncharted, some pirates will yell "He's out !" when your rifle emitted the empty clip sound.
Sorry to dissapoint you,but if you ever watched anime called Jin-Roh,you would see who made this awesome artwork. Killzone looks like Jin-Roh rip-off
And btw. i heard from at least 3 people next thing: shoot bridge - bridge breaks into pieces causing smoke - flying thing goes through smoke - smoke swirls
Looks like scripted sequence that will be same every time... Too bad
I really dont like to ruin party,but ...
And image from Jin-Roh
I just dont get all this hype,especialy about graphics - sure game looks attractive/cinematic with lot of action (something like COD4 set in future) with some nice lightning and animation but thats it
p.s. if you find yourself in "need" to proove me wrong with these comparsions,please dont use fake-not-ingame-retouched-shots,if anything,than use screenshot from HD gameplay video,thanks
And image from Jin-Roh
I just dont get all this hype,especialy about graphics - sure game looks attractive/cinematic with lot of action (something like COD4 set in future) with some nice lightning and animation but thats it
p.s. if you find yourself in "need" to proove me wrong with these comparsions,please dont use fake-not-ingame-retouched-shots,if anything,than use screenshot from HD gameplay video,thanks
The Jin-Roh similarity was raised in a GameTap developer interview earlier.
The link doesn't quite work anymore but you can find the cached page on google.com.
You can also find additional cool character and weapon designs in other KZ2 sites (Not all Helghans look like that).
The smoke swirl surely looks nice. The turbulent movement exists in other parts too (near exhausts of vehicles). As for not liking KZ2 visuals, I think we are all entitled to our own opinions. IMHO, the "nice lighting, animation", and many other elements combined to form a unique and striking visual that is only seen in KZ2.
The link doesn't quite work anymore but you can find the cached page on google.com.
You can also find additional cool character and weapon designs in other KZ2 sites (Not all Helghans look like that
).The smoke swirl surely looks nice. The turbulent movement exists in other parts too (near exhausts of vehicles). As for not liking KZ2 visuals, I think we are all entitled to our own opinions. IMHO, the "nice lighting, animation", and many other elements combined to form a unique and striking visual that is only seen in KZ2.
the ignoramus
Regular
Killzone 2, bringing poignant and biting observations letter by letter, keyboard stroke by keyboard stroke.
It's nice to see the Jin Roh stuff cleared up, I've maintained that Guerilla's artists could easily have been drawing influence from fascist aesthetics; the idea of the Jin Roh similarities being a coincidence gets quite plausible when one considered the occupation of Amsterdam in the 40s.
It's nice to see the Jin Roh stuff cleared up, I've maintained that Guerilla's artists could easily have been drawing influence from fascist aesthetics; the idea of the Jin Roh similarities being a coincidence gets quite plausible when one considered the occupation of Amsterdam in the 40s.
That comparison of yours is not good enough. Choose better images if you want to prove a pointI really dont like to ruin party,but ...
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