Killzone 2 pre-release discussion thread

[Scott_Arm]

It needs to be convincing enough though. Otherwise, the great visuals may highlight the unrealistic behaviour even more. A stupid soldier will stick out like a sore thumb -- just like the skating corpse.

That's true. You don't want to come upon enemies that are walking head first into walls, shooting in the wrong direction or dropping grenades at their own feet. Limited AI is much better than poorly implemented complex AI. If I were responsible for a game with embarrassing AI, I'd just play wacky music, like that Benny Hill theme, every time there were enemies on screen and I'd label my game an action comedy.

 

[patsu]

Ah I get your point. I can see how it's valid. In many cases, complex technologies just bring unpredictable outcomes. Sometimes it's genius, sometimes it appears as good as random.

In that sense... yes. I prefer fun and simple AI. Hopefully, it's not too predictable though. Occassionally, I'd like to be surprised by their behaviours (personalities).

 

[L. Scofield]

particle effects are the world's best.

I disagree. I think Lost Planet's are better, specially smoke.

 

[Gitaroo]

Lost Planet smoke looks good from far away, some cut scene when you can look very close look very 2D with edge softening.

 

[Love_In_Rio]

My observations, parroting a number of points already raised - particle effects are the world's best. The persistence of the smoke is very convincing and adds a lot to the atmosphere. The motion blur is fantastic. Yes, it can be used to cover up rubbish graphics, but when you stop and look, and see everything's looking good, you understand that the motion blur is there to achieve an effective, deliberate look, and not hide the weaknesses of the engine! Deepbrown's destructibility gif looks great, but I imagine that's in a scripted area, and destructibility isn't like that everywhere. Like the original bridge destruction gameplay we've already seen, the bridge explodes fabulously, but it's an objective of the game which can be engineered into the script to look great, add to the cinematic experience, but not require a worldwide destruction engine. The animation is excellent, very natural, but the bodies lack mass. The elbowed Helghast sends his comrades leg sliding across the floor as if it were on ice! And finally I haven't watched all the trailers yet, but what I've seen so far doesn't have the world's greatest AI. This could be 'coz the game's in easy mode or whatever, but when you see a beautifully animated Helghast casually climbing over a railing while getting shot at, you're left scratching your head.

They are in another planet! Maybe there the friction coefficient is like ice

This game has details everywhere and they don´t stop once you think has seen everything, and this is only the same level that has been shown since last year.

Going on with the bodies mass thingy, take a look at this gif made from a neogaf poster and be wowed about the reaction of the ground body´s leg:

http://i33.tinypic.com/nci8tx.gif

 

[el_rika]

I disagree. I think Lost Planet's are better, specially smoke.

MGS4's smoke and dust are already much better than Lost Planet's (or any other game for that reason). You even have realtime shadows reflecting on the smoke in MGS4.

 

[scificube]

MGS4's smoke and dust are already much better than Lost Planet's (or any other game for that reason). You even have realtime shadows reflecting on the smoke in MGS4.

Same in Killzone (I think). I can't find it but there's a gif with a ship flying through some volumetric smoke and I'm almost certain I saw the bridge casting a shadow on the smoke below as the ship flew by.

Wish I saved the gif so I could be sure of what I saw.

 

[Neb]

MGS4's smoke and dust are already much better than Lost Planet's (or any other game for that reason). You even have realtime shadows reflecting on the smoke in MGS4.

The sprite smoke in MGS4 is not convincing and IMO quite average looking. A better example would be KZ2. Now its slick with shadows falling on it but lots of other games has real-time shadows reflect in the smoke, have several games in my collection that do that, old and new.

 

[Neb]

I disagree. I think Lost Planet's are better, specially smoke.

Its nice having the effects stay for a while but the bluriness (low-res? like explosions etc) are defnitely not amongst the best. Nice seeing lots of effects but individually it doesnt stand out except for some effects. About LP it does have really nice effects but not upclose.

 

[AlNom]

Must we degenerate into highly opinionated discussion and comparisons? :|

 

[deepbrown]

My observations, parroting a number of points already raised - particle effects are the world's best. The persistence of the smoke is very convincing and adds a lot to the atmosphere. The motion blur is fantastic. Yes, it can be used to cover up rubbish graphics, but when you stop and look, and see everything's looking good, you understand that the motion blur is there to achieve an effective, deliberate look, and not hide the weaknesses of the engine! Deepbrown's destructibility gif looks great, but I imagine that's in a scripted area, and destructibility isn't like that everywhere. Like the original bridge destruction gameplay we've already seen, the bridge explodes fabulously, but it's an objective of the game which can be engineered into the script to look great, add to the cinematic experience, but not require a worldwide destruction engine. The animation is excellent, very natural, but the bodies lack mass. The elbowed Helghast sends his comrades leg sliding across the floor as if it were on ice! And finally I haven't watched all the trailers yet, but what I've seen so far doesn't have the world's greatest AI. This could be 'coz the game's in easy mode or whatever, but when you see a beautifully animated Helghast casually climbing over a railing while getting shot at, you're left scratching your head.

For there to be ANY reaction to that helghast kicking the body is already beyond most other games...it looks unbelievable. Three characters involved to create one dynamic move. The slight sliding (about 2 inches to the side) is completely forgivable. The weight of the characters look great.

That's true. I caught it immediately in the gif but may be not so in the actual game. During gameplay, your attention will be directly on the enemies in front. So it would be hard not to notice any whacky behaviour exhibited by the targeted soldier(s).

IMO that was one of the best bits about that gif. In other games the helghast being punched would have stepped straight through the dead body.

 

[patsu]

Yes, KZ2 is amazing when considered in its entirety. It demonstrates great balance and details, just like a beautiful woman.

The smoke effect is pretty varied. It doesn't just linger around or always blow in one direction. It reacts with light, swirls with movement and turbulence in specific cases. We will probably see more when they bring out the full weather system.

Heck, the muzzle turns red hot if you fire too much too. That's from one of the play tests.

 

[patsu]

Yet another KZ2 interview:
[gt]36896[/gt]

Apparently, they have been play testing the multiplayer for a year now.

 

[deepbrown]

Yes, KZ2 is amazing when considered in its entirety. It demonstrates great balance and details, just like a beautiful woman.

The smoke effect is pretty varied. It doesn't just linger around or always blow in one direction. It reacts with light, swirls with movement and turbulence in specific cases. We will probably see more when they bring out the full weather system.

Heck, the muzzle turns red hot if you fire too much too. That's from one of the play tests.

The smoke off the muzzle blows in the wind too

 

[patsu]

Where does it say that ? The IGN article (I think) only mentioned the orange/red muzzle

 

[scificube]

The smoke off the muzzle blows in the wind too

Can you provide a reference?

How can you tell there is wind? Until I see it I'm skeptical you're not seeing trails due to the motion of the gun vs any sort of wind affect.

 

[deepbrown]

Can you provide a reference?

How can you tell there is wind? Until I see it I'm skeptical you're not seeing trails due to the motion of the gun vs any sort of wind affect.

Yes...it could be that. I might have been tricked by the flag on the destructible building blowing to the right, and the smoke off the muzzle also going to the right. It's when he's outside...at that destructible building (jeuxvideo)

edit: Here's some of the more minute destructibility: http://i38.tinypic.com/2rp6x5t.gif http://i36.tinypic.com/1zf4vav.gif

And this just looks great http://i38.tinypic.com/j92h3r.gif

 

[patsu]

Yeah... most likely due to gun movement. I don't think weather stuff is in yet.

 

[scificube]

Yes...it could be that. I might have been tricked by the flag on the destructible building blowing the right, and the smoke off the muzzle also going to the right. It's when he's outside...at that destructible building (jeuxvideo)

edit: Here's some of the more minute destructibility: http://i38.tinypic.com/2rp6x5t.gif http://i36.tinypic.com/1zf4vav.gif

And this just looks great http://i38.tinypic.com/j92h3r.gif

Thanks for clearing that up.

 

[RenegadeRocks]

Well, the gamersyde video does clearly show that the gameplay is fast and frantic. There were hell of a lot of Helghast on that small platform and one was even shooting rockets at you! I think the only worry people had that the gameplay wouldn't hold up should go now. Though there are some weird moments like u open a door and there's a Helghast sitting right in front, but at least now we know that the team knows what gameplay they are striving for.

What I love about KZ2 is that even in a single map, evereytime u open a door or take a turn , you are in a completely different place.They have condensed many different feeling areas into a single level and then created pathways around it.