several games have wind that affect the smoke and even fire. Far cry 2 is one recent example.
Killzone 2 pre-release discussion thread
- Thread starter ihamoitc2005
- Start date
- Status
several games have wind that affect the smoke and even fire. Far cry 2 is one recent example.
The environments are nice (Like everyone says, the wind affects smoke, dust, cloth, and grenade throwing realistically; it's no longer night time). But I posted the video to showcase MP gameplay. >_<
The KZ2 Warzone evolves game objectives on-the-fly like R2 Skirmish.
In the video I posted, I think you can see:
* Engineer (The guy who deployed the ground sentry)
* Tactician (The guy who deployed the colored smoke grenades [aka spawn points])
* Rifleman (The player)
In 2real4tv's link, you can see:
* Tactician (... with his flying drone)
* Scout (The hooded guy, but we didn't see his cool cloaking effect in these videos
)
* Saboteur (I thought I saw him in one of these videos but I can't find him anymore. He would look like your teammate but work for the other side)
The KZ2 Warzone evolves game objectives on-the-fly like R2 Skirmish.
In the video I posted, I think you can see:
* Engineer (The guy who deployed the ground sentry)
* Tactician (The guy who deployed the colored smoke grenades [aka spawn points])
* Rifleman (The player)
In 2real4tv's link, you can see:
* Tactician (... with his flying drone)
* Scout (The hooded guy, but we didn't see his cool cloaking effect in these videos
)* Saboteur (I thought I saw him in one of these videos but I can't find him anymore. He would look like your teammate but work for the other side
)I wonder... does that wind actually require the user/player to factor in windage adjustments in their weapons fire? Do you have to look at the speed and direction of the smoke/dust particles and adjust your aim accordingly? If so, that would be very cool indeed. I've only seen that in a few simulation based games... as a sim buff (and former high fidelity simulation software/hardware user and programmer) I'd be quite keen to see more of this implemented. That and bullet drop + ricochet implementation.
Slightly off topic, but all the recent urban warfare experience has resulted in all soldiers knowing that you cannot press yourself against cover/walls, etc. because of the tendency to be hit by a round riding along the surface of a wall, etc on ricochet. I've always found it funny that video games propagate the false idea that pressing yourself up to cover as hard as you can provides any protection. Wall riding bullets; notwithstanding, wouldn't one be worried about bullet spalling?
Nope.
What games factor in wind where your shooting with rifles? I know Operation Flashpoint had bulletdrop.
the ignoramus
Regular
One of the SP levels has a wind element that effects movement, grenade tosses, and aiming.
But this looks way better because it seems the smoke will deflect off walls I never seen that effect before.
Urban warfare has taught soldiers never to travel along a wall be it in an alley way or hallway. Using a wall as cover from gun fire thats coming from around the corner will not typically expose you to that phenomenom. Nevertheless, you never want to hug your cover anyway (unless you are receiving fire from a wide arc that makes it infeasible not to hug) since it gets into your way of bringing your weapon to bear, which is alot easier if you are a few feet back. But video games don't allow for a degree of couching that allows you to effectively to fire from cover without exposing you in a totally upright position 99% of the time.
Last edited by a moderator:
Uhhh, I'm in the United States Army, and we very much do "hug walls" when clearing hallways and stuff.
Experience > Internet Reports.
Obviously you're face will not be pressed against it, but your back will. It's not uncommon to have a mirror with you to look around corners, etc. I think it would be best if we stayed out of discussion about stuff we've only read about.
Experience > Internet Reports.
Obviously you're face will not be pressed against it, but your back will. It's not uncommon to have a mirror with you to look around corners, etc. I think it would be best if we stayed out of discussion about stuff we've only read about.
No offense, but in my 8 years experience as a scout, at a training center (Joint Readiness Training Center) and other combat units that heavily trained in CQB tactics had us avoid hugging walls for the following reason:
1) Noise discipline
2) Don't want to get gear caught up on hardware
3) Room entries requires you to cover your angles. The closer you are to a wall/obstacle, the more restricted your ability to cover your angle becomes. Especially with a rifle (even a carbine/shortened barrel).
and lastly...
in the three-dimensional aspect of CQB, or any combat for that matter, you can and should expect rounds to come from any side -- literally. Friendly fire still accounts for many casualties, even in highly trained units.
I don't want to go completely off-topic, but at JRTC, all the Ranger Bats, SF groups, and multiservice SF units will rotate through. I was last there in the mid-nineties, but not that much has changed when it comes to basic tactics.
As far as official US Army doctrine, here it is in writing:
https://rdl.train.army.mil/soldierPortal/atia/adlsc/view/public/11116-1/tc/7-98-1/chap2l18.htm
SLIDE 18-11. ACTIONS UPON ENTRY
...The No. 2 man moves in the opposite direction, following the wall, but not next to it.
and:
SLIDE 18-14. INDIVIDUAL MOVEMENT AND WEAPON CONTROL
...Clearing team members must know that after stealth is lost, concealment is all that furniture and walls can provide. Team members must be on the alert for rounds that hit a wall or floor and travel along the wall or floor for 12 to 18 inches.
Last edited by a moderator:
Yea, that's nice, but it's not practical.
I mean no offense, but it's been a while since you've been out if I remember from what we spoke about in PM's. The War in Iraq is not the same. When you clear a room, you walk along walls. Obviously you're not sliding down it, but as far as I'm concerned, anything closer than 6 inches is hugging.
The majority of buildings you will clear will not be silent, you will not go in with noise discipline in mind. I'm sorry, but the battle field has changed greatly, as have training practices. These are things I do extremely often (maybe twice a week). Now, I haven't been in theater for about 24 months, however, the OWT program brings in Soldiers who are fresh from Theater and bring combat experience, and the same practices are made.
I understand what you learned, and what you practiced while you were in, but times have changed, and so has War. The majority of the time when you're clearing a building, you are screaming to your buddies to keep everyone in the loop, communication is key, noise discipline is a pretty much non-essential in the new Combat Environment.
Also, if you would look at the illustrations at the slides, the Soldier clearly is within 6-8 inches of the wall, because you always travel along the wall to one, reduce the risk of friendly fire (stay out of the middle of the room) and two, reduce the chances of an enemy hiding around a corner or behind some other form of concealment near a wall.
A lot has changed since our last war, especially in the way the military clears a room.
Maybe we're arguing semantics here, but to me, if you're within a half a foot of a wall, to me, you're pretty much hugging it.
I mean no offense, but it's been a while since you've been out if I remember from what we spoke about in PM's. The War in Iraq is not the same. When you clear a room, you walk along walls. Obviously you're not sliding down it, but as far as I'm concerned, anything closer than 6 inches is hugging.
The majority of buildings you will clear will not be silent, you will not go in with noise discipline in mind. I'm sorry, but the battle field has changed greatly, as have training practices. These are things I do extremely often (maybe twice a week). Now, I haven't been in theater for about 24 months, however, the OWT program brings in Soldiers who are fresh from Theater and bring combat experience, and the same practices are made.
I understand what you learned, and what you practiced while you were in, but times have changed, and so has War. The majority of the time when you're clearing a building, you are screaming to your buddies to keep everyone in the loop, communication is key, noise discipline is a pretty much non-essential in the new Combat Environment.
Also, if you would look at the illustrations at the slides, the Soldier clearly is within 6-8 inches of the wall, because you always travel along the wall to one, reduce the risk of friendly fire (stay out of the middle of the room) and two, reduce the chances of an enemy hiding around a corner or behind some other form of concealment near a wall.
A lot has changed since our last war, especially in the way the military clears a room.
Maybe we're arguing semantics here, but to me, if you're within a half a foot of a wall, to me, you're pretty much hugging it.
Wind has been in games for a long time. Even FC1 had it for example, by nature and effects. And smoke ~deflecting of walls is quite common although it does in most games come with some clipping. I've seen several effects in KZ2 clip through walls though. Due to little particle use for lets say explosion smoke fins/to costly to do collision detection with static/dynamic objects. Common though in games.
I can think of several games ranging from simple to more advanced. Adding a static or dynamic value to the bullet trajectory path formula shouldn't be to taxing I assume. Perhaps it will if the value is dynamic requiring to be upated more times. Although if the wind in the game (using smoke or such to judge direction and strength) is the same then it is a static value. OPF had quite nice one with delay for sound to. IIRC wind affected the sound to.
Last edited by a moderator:
Besides Op Flashpoint (and ArmA too, I'd guess) I can only think of America's Army, and I'm not 100% sure about America's Army. Can you give any more examples? Any of the Ghost Recons? Rainbow 6? All of those had snipering that didn't involve just shooting a ray to the target, but they didn't have a wind-factor to keep track of that I know of.
Betanumerical
Veteran
the ignoramus
Regular
Someone uploaded footage of the entire campaign, and naturally, I couldnt resist and watched some of the end-game cutscenes
.
Suffice it to say, I disagree with the critical panning of KZ2's story. It certainly has some serious issues and plot holes, but the boldness of some of the characterizations is very striking.
There are some genuinely rotten, miserable, assholes on both sides of the conflict and KZ2 is unapologetic in its depiction of that. Most games elect to make your friendly NPCs amicable, well meaning, good ole boys.
Not so with Killzone 2, and I think it deserves some credit for having the guts to include an important, friendly NPC that is so completely and utterly barbaric and unlikeable.
.
Suffice it to say, I disagree with the critical panning of KZ2's story. It certainly has some serious issues and plot holes, but the boldness of some of the characterizations is very striking.
There are some genuinely rotten, miserable, assholes on both sides of the conflict and KZ2 is unapologetic in its depiction of that. Most games elect to make your friendly NPCs amicable, well meaning, good ole boys.
Not so with Killzone 2, and I think it deserves some credit for having the guts to include an important, friendly NPC that is so completely and utterly barbaric and unlikeable.
No ,but due to collision being detected only on the center of the particle ,so when it collides ,half of ithas already passed through the wall.
The term wind is an abuse for most if not all games (yeah ,even crysis).Some simple procedures and pseudo physics are enought to fake job.
That was a single shot in the entire game. I wouldn't say that the engine supported windage based on that. Not like OPF anyway.
I'm amazed how great KZ2 looks in general. Campaign or online.. Some people I know questioned how it could "look that good" with 32player online...
But I pointed out KZ2 doesn't have any vehicles, is 720p and locked at 30fps. COD5 for example looks great, and it's 24player online locked at 60fps with vehicles. BF:BC has 24man online with huge maps and vehicles.. 720p 30fps locked.
In addition KZ2 is first party and has had alot of help.
though I have been curious how games like RFOM2 can push 60man online and still have good looking effects...
But I pointed out KZ2 doesn't have any vehicles, is 720p and locked at 30fps. COD5 for example looks great, and it's 24player online locked at 60fps with vehicles. BF:BC has 24man online with huge maps and vehicles.. 720p 30fps locked.
In addition KZ2 is first party and has had alot of help.
though I have been curious how games like RFOM2 can push 60man online and still have good looking effects...
grandmaster
Veteran
I'm watching my videos render at approximately 10% playback speed. It's absolutely fascinating to see just how well done the motion blur is. It's all part of the package of course, but I think the game's key success is how well all of its tech components have been merged together into one excellent whole.
the ignoramus
Regular
So did you enjoy the last levels and the final cutscene?
- Status
Similar threads
