You know a PS3 flash memory implementation doesn´t have to compete with high-end PC flash drives. If it has an equivalent write speed of an average (or bad) hard drive in most use cases that will be good enough. The read speed will always be good and that will probably be noticeable to the user.
How can Sony further cost reduce the entry-level PS3? *spawn
- Thread starter corduroygt
- Start date
corduroygt
Banned
120 million PS2 users, 66 million Wii users, 10-15 million Xbox 360 Arcade users were just fine without a HDD; don't inflict your particular choice of expensive gadgets on everybody.
corduroygt
Banned
This thread is about the PS3. All those consoles you listed can work fine without an HDD, the PS3 can't. I was arguing against a HDD-less PS3, selling such a console that won't work out of the box without an HDD is not a good idea.
Consumers understand they need microphones for Singstar. I havent heard anyone complaining he ended up with the game but no mics, even if there are editions without them, same with games that required an optional controller on past consoles. Just write "Needs an additional HDD" on the box, its not that there cant be bundles with an included HDD aswell for costumers who want to be on the easy/safe side.
"Consoles need all peripherals to run games out of the box unless you are talking about TVs" is your opinion, no fact or even a rule. Nowadays you`d expect a PC to be able to browse the net yet MS got forced to release versions of Windows without Browser.
Edit: And whats with everyone coming up with poor car analogies for everything...
Yeah, everone knows Consoles needs a TV, everyone knows Cars needs wheels for their respective function. Yet consoles still are sold without TV (thankfully)
Npl, no. Either the system ships with a hard drive, or the default game must not require one to be playable. While the world you envision is possible, I suppose, I don't think any console manufacturer is crass enough to go there. Sony could stop shipping with the weak composite cables they presently do as well, and simply go to no cable inclusions - that should get them some more accessory sales, right? At the end of the day it is a consumer electronics device, and that comes with certain expectations.
There would be no point selling a console that can't play games for said console. Without its HDD...PS3 games will not play.
Digital cameras come without a laptop or a photo printer to look/edit your photographs. HDTv's come without a Blu-ray player (and visa versa). So your "PS3 doesn't work out of the box because it doesn't come with a TV" is absurd and counter to everything we know about electronics.
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He's talking specifically about the PS3 (look at the thread title) without an HDD...PS3 games do not play. Everything in the box allows PS3 games to be played on a TV - if only with a component cable. The games still play. There's not one thing in the box that I can think that isn't there to allow the PS3 to play games...apart from perhaps the Network cable. They could take that out and rely on the console's wireless. Everything else is needed for it to perform its function -> to connect to a TV and play games.
Silent_Buddha
Legend
I think Npl is envisioning something like a customizable Dell/HP/Lenovo/etc. PC. A system where you have a base system and you can then customize the various parts.
The problem is, that while that works online, it doesn't work as well in retail where you would need to stock enough parts for every possible configuration. And you end up with overstock of some parts that will depreciate over time while not being able to stock the more popular combinations. Something not condusive to retail where stores already run on razor thin margins.
It just wouldn't make sense to sell a console that couldn't play a game out of the box with the standard stuff you find in homes. In other words, TV's are pretty much ubiquitous while 2.5" HDDs are not commonly found in your average house.
Add to that, take your average non-techie family that has to take their computer to Best Buy to get it fixed anytime something goes wrong, and you expect them want to open up the PS3 to install a HDD?
Regards,
SB
The problem is, that while that works online, it doesn't work as well in retail where you would need to stock enough parts for every possible configuration. And you end up with overstock of some parts that will depreciate over time while not being able to stock the more popular combinations. Something not condusive to retail where stores already run on razor thin margins.
It just wouldn't make sense to sell a console that couldn't play a game out of the box with the standard stuff you find in homes. In other words, TV's are pretty much ubiquitous while 2.5" HDDs are not commonly found in your average house.
Add to that, take your average non-techie family that has to take their computer to Best Buy to get it fixed anytime something goes wrong, and you expect them want to open up the PS3 to install a HDD?
Regards,
SB
Huh? Im not talking about selling PS3`s with every existing model of HDD`s. How is it more complicated for retail if you have 1 no-HDD SKU and 1 80GB SKU than it is today?
If that would be an argument, why are there timed SKUs with bundled games?
Thats why no-HDD should be an option and not the only option. In addition to selling the regular no-HDD and 80GB SKUs a shop could also offer their own bundles with HDDs (+ small fee should it be installed by the store)... or simply chose not to sell the no-HDD SKU at all.
IMHO the "perceived" price advantage of the XBox-Arcade is hurting Sony more than anything else.
The AnandTech article on 25 nm MLC talked about initial availability in mid-2011 or early 2012.
I think you mixed up some stuff, Anands article says:
Anand also predict:
According to eetimes:
But beside this, the eetimes article also list a number of other manufacturers that have just moved to new processes or is about to, so there is much going on right now as the economy is getting back on its feet.
Npl's point is that, yes, the SKU's aren't ready to go 'out of the box', but the buyer can choose their own HDD then. So if I had an old 2.5" HDD lying around, I could have used it in my PS3 and saved myself some of the purchase price. As long as the buyers were suitably uinformed, it should be okay in principle. However I don't think Joe Public would really 'get it' and there would be buyers getting the cheaper console, especially as gifts, and having it not work. There's also the issue of minimum performance as well.
They could further reduce the number of USB ports to one ... those bloodsuckers. And remove the Emotion Engine for...wait, scratch that, already happened. They could also remove support for installing a different Operating Sys...oh snap, already happened.
They could sell empty boxes, like people do on eBay.
Seriously, at this point in the game, the only way to reasonably cut cost is in the manufacturing process, which leads to less demand on power components, cooling and size. A move to 32nm or 28nm would do a great deal, along with a new, cheaper BluRay drive.
I hope the next revision includes IEEE 802.11n.
They could sell empty boxes, like people do on eBay.
Seriously, at this point in the game, the only way to reasonably cut cost is in the manufacturing process, which leads to less demand on power components, cooling and size. A move to 32nm or 28nm would do a great deal, along with a new, cheaper BluRay drive.
I hope the next revision includes IEEE 802.11n.
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corduroygt
Banned
Not many, but ANY games, the PS3 OS itself relies on the presence of the hard drive, it won't work without one.
Selling a PS3 without a hard drive is like selling a car without wheels. Don't forget these consoles are sold to the general public, not tech experts.
One thing Sony could sell is a HDD upgrade that comes with a data transfer kit or the kit itself, because currently you need 2 spare HDD's to upgrade your PS3, one to take the backup on, and the other to install in the PS3, then restore the backup.
Sony can sell a data transfer kit for $50-$60, (cost <$10)which is just basically a SATA enclosure that's easy to open without screws. The Sata2USB chip will have a certain range of ID's that will identify it to the PS3 differently than a standard USB drive. This, coupled with a PS3 firmware update, will allow the PS3 to format that drive the same way as the internal drive and copy user files. Then you take out the sata drive from the easy to open enclosure and put it in your PS3, and voila.
