Frame Rate Analysis Thread (Simple Rules Post #2)

[Cheezdoodles]

never... their focus was on other effects and a vast scope rather than a corridor shooter. all 3 iterations have been 30

There is nothing suggesting that vast scope and other effects cannot be done at 60fps.

Bungie pushed for graphics more than they wanted framerate, its as simple as that. There is nothing stopping people from making games with vast open areas at 60fps. Your reason sounds like a pr statement.

 

[AlNom]

Why do you distinguish "other effects" from "pushing graphics"

 

[2real4tv]

One of the reasons I feel IW are talented developers is that they got there engine to run on both systems at 60 fps. I asked this question on another forum but why don't developers allow users to scale back assets to achieve better framerates on consoles? Similiar to how PC games work.

 

[TheBlackLodge]

Well isn't that done in PC games to allow for a variety of differing hardware bits and bobs (different Vid Cards, Sound Cards, Ram configs, Processor types and speeds) to be able to run the game ? In the console world you have a closed system with identical hardware on every machine, the PC however is open and you could concievably be looking at no 2 machines being the same, yet you obviously want to maximise sales of your game, thus a bit of leeway is required.

I suppose however there is no reason why you can't have something like that ala Bioshock and Lego Indy.......

 

[rekator]

There is nothing suggesting that vast scope and other effects cannot be done at 60fps.

Bungie pushed for graphics more than they wanted framerate, its as simple as that. There is nothing stopping people from making games with vast open areas at 60fps. Your reason sounds like a pr statement.

Bungie is preferring a real stable 30 fps with many characters with good IA, great lighting, colors variety, vast scope and great physic than 60 fps, lot of "stupid" opponents with respawn and rail shooter…
The games targets are not the same, questions of priorities from the game design.
Both are great in their targets.

 

[Squilliam]

Is there any chance UT3 will be benchmarked as well? Its quite a significant game as the Unreal engine is heavily used on both consoles in many games and it could provide a baseline for comparison between games that utilize the engine on both platforms.

Theres also a few comparisons going around the net among different sites so I would believe that the interest is there if someone were to go to the trouble I think it would definately be worth it.

 

[grandmaster]

Unreal Tournament 3 is 30fps on both consoles with minimal screen tear. The 360 version has better motion blur effects, improved levels of detail in the maps, an extra bot and of course an exclusive split-screen mode. In my tests both versions showed 0.5% screen tear in the frame accurate clips I used. However, these clips were designed to be like-for-like. I've no idea how that figure alters on either platform in the heat of intense, engine-stressing gameplay - likely it will rise significantly (I could do non like-for-like tests but really screen tear is not an issue in this game).

You'd think it would be a good baseline test except that the coders had a lot more time with the 360 version and it shows from a technical perspective, even though both are beautiful games.

In terms of UE3 generally, games like Rainbow Six Vegas 1&2, Turning Point, Stranglehold and Army of Two show that the engine can produce basically like-for-like results with just AA missing on PS3.

However, other games show that UE3 hasn't been fully mastered by PS3 developers:

Blacksite Area 51 (abysmal frame rate on PS3)
Turok (lower frame rate, screen tear, but nicer ground textures on PS3)
Medal of Honor: Airborne (lower frame rate, no AA)

UT3 is a great showcase for what UE3 *can* do on PS3 though and it's easily the loveliest looking game using the engine on the platform.

 

[liolio]

Does UE III support AA at all?

 

[grandmaster]

That is being debated in the Upscaling/Resolution/AA thread

 

[Cheezdoodles]

In terms of UE3 generally, games like Rainbow Six Vegas 1&2, Turning Point, Stranglehold and Army of Two show that the engine can produce basically like-for-like results with just AA missing on PS3.

huh? I was under the impression that UE3 did not support tiling (althought you could probably modify it to do) and so far 0 Unreal 3 engine titles on the X360 has been released with AA ?!?

Mod Note: Copied the shadowing bit to the Lighting and Shadows thread
http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1187836&postcount=91

 

[AlNom]

I'm making a note here ( ): I've moved the latest shadow discussion regarding UE3.0 etc to the Lighting and Shadows thread: http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?t=47833

 

[Squilliam]

I was wondering - whether or not the new full HDD installs on the Xbox360 are going to be tested by anyone? It will be interesting to see what we can find out about this new feature.

 

[the ignoramus]

Curious about Mass Effect's framerate; it doesnt seem quite as bad as GTA IV (PS3), but there were lengthy sections that were not running at a steady 30 fps.
Anyone have any idea of what ME's average framerate is in indoor and outdoor areas?
The game has extensive tearing as well, which was alarming, given the low framerate.
I'd like to know Mass Effect's rate of torn frames.
Another game with extensive tearing and sub 30 framerate issues is Heavenly Sword.
I'd love to know what HS' framerate is near the end of the game with the massive battle with 200+ soldiers, it seemed as if it was in the teens.

 

[Hazuki Ryu]

Curious about Mass Effect's framerate; it doesnt seem quite as bad as GTA IV (PS3), but there were lengthy sections that were not running at a steady 30 fps.
Anyone have any idea of what ME's average framerate is in indoor and outdoor areas?
The game has extensive tearing as well, which was alarming, given the low framerate.
I'd like to know Mass Effect's rate of torn frames.
Another game with extensive tearing and sub 30 framerate issues is Heavenly Sword.
I'd love to know what HS' framerate is near the end of the game with the massive battle with 200+ soldiers, it seemed as if it was in the teens.

ME on some of the snow planets seems to suffer a severe but constant framerate drop.

 

[MazingerDUDE]

Curious about Mass Effect's framerate; it doesnt seem quite as bad as GTA IV (PS3)

ME had one of the WORST frame rate issues on this gen console. GTAIV on the other hand, at least provided steady frame rate with no tearing.

 

[Tap In]

ME had one of the WORST frame rate issues on this gen console. GTAIV on the other hand, at least provided steady frame rate with no tearing.

installing ME to HDD will be a big test of the increase in efficiency for 360 going forward.

 

[woundingchaney]

installing ME to HDD will be a big test of the increase in efficiency for 360 going forward.

Are you expecting a framerate increase by installing to the HDD or relieving some issues with texture pop-in and long load times. I wouldnt imagine an HDD install being overly beneficial for framerate.


I didnt know that the HDD install referred to older titles as well. This is good to hear.

 

[Tap In]

Are you expecting a framerate increase by installing to the HDD or relieving some issues with texture pop-in and long load times. I wouldnt imagine an HDD install being overly beneficial for framerate.


I didnt know that the HDD install referred to older titles as well. This is good to hear.

certainly texture pop in and load times. FR remains to be seen but in some titles I would not doubt it may help. ME allegedly does not cache to the HDD at all so it is all streaming ATM. Yes ALL titles can be optionally installed to HDD for these potential benefits.

 

[the ignoramus]

ME had one of the WORST frame rate issues on this gen console. GTAIV on the other hand, at least provided steady frame rate with no tearing.

GTA IV PS3 a steady framerate?
You gotta be kidding me. GTA's framerate goes to hell anytime you are in a heavily congested area or when you are in a cop chase 3 stars and above. In many of the scripted chase sequences, I had the framerate dipping into the low 20s whenever there was an intense collision. Hell, take a drive in the downtown area of Liberty City and watch the framerate do a nosedive.

 

[ShaidarHaran]

GTA IV PS3 a steady framerate?
You gotta be kidding me. GTA's framerate goes to hell anytime you are in a heavily congested area or when you are in a cop chase 3 stars and above. In many of the scripted chase sequences, I had the framerate dipping into the low 20s whenever there was an intense collision. Hell, take a drive in the downtown area of Liberty City and watch the framerate do a nosedive.

Odd, I haven't observed any horrible frame rate dips during GTA4 while watching my roommate play for a few hours... Guess I'll have to start my own save game and try it for myself.