Formula 1 - 2023 Season

[tongue_of_colicab]

Hamilton again causing a collision and sending the other driver to the back and all he gets is a worthless 5 sec penalty. It wasn't even an incident or something that can happen in a corner, no Piastri was going in a straight line and still Hamilton managed to hit him.

 

[Globalisateur]

Hamilton again causing a collision and sending the other driver to the back and all he gets is a worthless 5 sec penalty. It wasn't even an incident or something that can happen in a corner, no Piastri was going in a straight line and still Hamilton managed to hit him.

Yep. Same thing he is being doing countless times since years ago. They really should punish him harsher than this. F1 is not kart racing where such thing is allowed.

 

[iroboto]

Yea I thought him eating a 5 second penalty and throwing Piastri out of points seems like an unfair tradeoff. in the end Hamilton didn't actually get penalized because he had enough time to open a 5 second gap against Albon.

 

[Pete]

Hamilton again causing a collision and sending the other driver to the back and all he gets is a worthless 5 sec penalty. It wasn't even an incident or something that can happen in a corner, no Piastri was going in a straight line and still Hamilton managed to hit him.

Wasn’t there a similar contact at T3 earlier in the race that was a lot less serious? Probably between a Ferrari and Perez, or maybe between Piastri and Norris (that may have been just T1-T2).

Edit: Found Leclerc doing a similar “flare” or jink to widen his entry on Perez at T3 thanks to r /Formula1: https://dubz.co/c/38241d

 

[Pete]

The F1 Live post-race show had some interesting nuggets from the guest host Luca Filipi [sp?].

Aston: understeer all weekend (maybe they didn't have a full Monza-spec rear wing? maybe they chose to protect their rears more?). 31:00
Merc: oversteer (maybe why Lewis said he had L F brake overheating at one point, if he shifted brake balance to the front to combat rear tire deg/overheating?). Low rear wing meant his rear was always sliding. 33:58
LeClerc checking Vaseur's pulse at 37:10.
Checo "not really good into T1, didn't have a good feeling with the braking, and he was braking earlier than Carlos." 41:00

Edit: FIA says everyone was under the cost cap last year.

Edit 2: Mark Hughes details the differences between Carlos’ and Max’s quali laps. Basically what BrrrakeF1 saw in the traces.

 

[iroboto]

OMG!!!!! LAWSON!!!
wowow, did not expect this. Is this the end of the streak. I have my doubts, I'm used to watching VER just cruise through, but this track will make it tougher

 

[Pete]

I can't tell if Lawson sealed his RB future in a good or bad way, given how Alpha is always asked to move over for RB. Great result for him. Ricciardo might be kicking himself, depending on what happens with Perez next year, as he may have missed his RB return window.

Funny how clumped together quali times were. Someone set a new fast time, then people clustered tightly around it.

I think Max said his tires didn't get up to the temp window, so if following closely overheats tires, maybe the RB will do better in the race? IIRC, RB changed from a soft setup yesterday to a stiffer one today, but Max said the RB was bottoming out and complained (much like Perez yesterday) of no confidence in braking and even moving around on long corners.

Horner said RB is bad at 90º (brake then throttle) corners, good at blended (brake + throttle, aka trail braking?) and high speed, so not optimal for this track.

Singapore is a high downforce track, the opposite of Monza, but maybe similar corners (chicanes and slow ones) explain Ferrari's performance? Maybe not, considering RB's lack of performance, though apparently RB was gaining like two tenths at Parabolica. Or maybe Ferrari just got heat into their tires better than RB (which explains Lando's performance--pity that Oscar was caught out by Stroll)? Then again, Merc is supposed to be the opposite of Ferrari, keeping their tire temp in the window longer, so not sure how that explains their performance. Lewis said the setup went away from him for quali. Great perf from George. Lando said he thought he drove a good Q3 lap but was suprised to be two tenths off. Charles also said the car was a bit spiky for him.

If Max gets enough impeding penalties RB might just change the setup and start him from the pitlane, but it's hard to believe they'd find enough magic to get him to the podium even from P11--unless they timed any rain perfectly.

Haas bossing it into Q3, too. I can't tell what corners that car likes, but that might be a case of bringing their tires up to temp quickly and their high drag not being a penalty here.

Edit: The drivers said it best:

Sainz, whose pole was his second in a row after starting from the front in Italy, said: "We have a very good car in certain tracks and certain conditions and like one lap, and [on] this sort of [track with] short exits and quick changes in direction, our car seems to be very good this weekend.

"Like in Monza, we know our weakness is always the race pace and we always pay a price.

[...]

Verstappen said: "Our car on this circuit, we couldn't get it into the the right window. Every session we have been chasing it.

"P3 [final practice] was quite a bit better. We tried a few things for qualifying that tipped it over the edge. It became super-sensitive, and you can't push, massive bottoming, sliding around a lot.

[...]

"Really happy with this weekend as a whole," said Russell. "I feel really confident in the car. We have another set of medium tyres tomorrow, which nobody around us has had, so to get to Q3 and be on the front row with a strategic advantage tomorrow is an exciting place to be."

Norris had gone fastest on his first run, before being beaten by the Ferraris and Russell, and he ended up 0.286secs off the pace in a McLaren that has a big aerodynamic upgrade this weekend, which is confined to the Briton's car.

Hamilton has been off Russell's pace for much of the weekend, and said he was "struggling with the balance" in qualifying, while few would have expected Magnussen to slip ahead of Alonso's Aston Martin for the final spot in the top six.

Alonso said he was happy with the lap and could not have gone any faster no matter how many times he tried, and admitted the team were "struggling a little bit".

 

[iroboto]

I can't tell if Lawson sealed his RB future in a good or bad way, given how Alpha is always asked to move over for RB. Great result for him. Ricciardo might be kicking himself, depending on what happens with Perez next year, as he may have missed his RB return window.

Funny how clumped together quali times were. Someone set a new fast time, then people clustered tightly around it.

I think Max said his tires didn't get up to the temp window, so if following closely overheats tires, maybe the RB will do better in the race? IIRC, RB changed from a soft setup yesterday to a stiffer one today, but Max said the RB was bottoming out and complained (much like Perez yesterday) of no confidence in braking and even moving around on long corners.

Horner said RB is bad at 90º (brake then throttle) corners, good at blended (brake + throttle, aka trail braking?) and high speed, so not optimal for this track.

Singapore is a high downforce track, the opposite of Monza, but maybe similar corners (chicanes and slow ones) explain Ferrari's performance? Maybe not, considering RB's lack of performance, though apparently RB was gaining like two tenths at Parabolica. Or maybe Ferrari just got heat into their tires better than RB (which explains Lando's performance--pity that Oscar was caught out by Stroll)? Then again, Merc is supposed to be the opposite of Ferrari, keeping their tire temp in the window longer, so not sure how that explains their performance. Lewis said the setup went away from him for quali. Great perf from George. Lando said he thought he drove a good Q3 lap but was suprised to be two tenths off. Charles also said the car was a bit spiky for him.

If Max gets enough impeding penalties RB might just change the setup and start him from the pitlane, but it's hard to believe they'd find enough magic to get him to the podium even from P11--unless they timed any rain perfectly.

Haas bossing it into Q3, too. I can't tell what corners that car likes, but that might be a case of bringing their tires up to temp quickly and their high drag not being a penalty here.

Edit: The drivers said it best:

Yea pity about Oscar, I had a terrible feeling that was going to happen. Haas did incredible, really great outcome for them.
It’s nice to finally see some movement, very interested in this race! Unfortunately my daughters birthday party tomorrow! Uhhh. Going to have to watch it after it’s live

 

[Pete]

The one good thing about F1 being relatively under the radar is I‘m unlikely to catch a stray result unless I’m looking for it.

The race got interesting at times because of various safety cars and exciting at the end (last 15 laps).

Admirable dadding. Now go watch the race to see who ended up with a 26sec pit stop for just four tires.

 

[iroboto]

Crazy race. Super exciting finish

 

[Bludd]

thrilling at the end there, but the smooth operator gave norris just enough drs to foil merc
heartbreaking for russell though, he was so on it all race

but my boi alonso, what the hell happened there penalty was fine then aston flopped on the pit stop and then he had a spin. terrible terrible

 

[iroboto]

Finally! Yes go Piastri!!
Great run for Mclaren.

Crazy they tried to field Perez again, complete disaster.

 

[Bludd]

Finally! Yes go Piastri!!
Great run for Mclaren.

Crazy they tried to field Perez again, complete disaster.

perez was just do a pit stop and get rid of that 5 second time penalty, no?

im so sad how far aston has fallen

 

[iroboto]

perez was just do a pit stop and get rid of that 5 second time penalty, no?

im so sad how far aston has fallen

Ahh ok that makes sense. Right he served the penalty and then shut it diwn

 

[Kaotik]

Ahh ok that makes sense. Right he served the penalty and then shut it diwn

It's ridiculous, this is the first season you're apparently allowed to leave car mid session (other than when red flagged). This was in 2022 last revision (and differently worded, bit less strict one but still pretty strict before that) but apparently not in 2023 regulations anymore.

26.18 Except during a sprint session suspension or race suspension, any car abandoned on the circuit by its driver, even temporarily, shall be considered as withdrawn from the session. In exceptional circumstances, cars abandoned on the circuit during a sprint session suspension or race suspension may be allowed to participate when that session resumes, provided they were not abandoned because of a mechanical issue, car damage or in order to gain an advantage

Regardless, it was a travesty that FIA actually greenlighted them to let a car return some 20 laps later to serve a penalty which at that point makes literally no difference to skip it when it would make a difference.

 

[Pete]

Finally! Yes go Piastri!!
Great run for Mclaren.

Crazy they tried to field Perez again, complete disaster.

Is McLaren outperforming Merc due to McL realizing they got their concept wrong and so rethinking things earlier than Merc or due to greater talent? Because they’re both running Merc engines and presumably gearboxes and rear suspension mounting points.

I’d also love to know why Norris is so much better at race pace than Piastri despite their closer quali times.

 

[Bludd]

It's ridiculous, this is the first season you're apparently allowed to leave car mid session (other than when red flagged). This was in 2022 last revision (and differently worded, bit less strict one but still pretty strict before that) but apparently not in 2023 regulations anymore.


Regardless, it was a travesty that FIA actually greenlighted them to let a car return some 20 laps later to serve a penalty which at that point makes literally no difference to skip it when it would make a difference.

yeah its dumb but it could be argued that it was not abandoned on the circuit

 

[iroboto]

Is McLaren outperforming Merc due to McL realizing they got their concept wrong and so rethinking things earlier than Merc or due to greater talent? Because they’re both running Merc engines and presumably gearboxes and rear suspension mounting points.

I’d also love to know why Norris is so much better at race pace than Piastri despite their closer quali times.

Aero is better on Mclaren it seems.

As for racing vs qualy. Driving style.
If it’s just for a few laps, Piastri can burn his tires and get very good times.
But In a race Norris overall driving style is whether resulting in better tire performance so you can go around the track at a higher speed with less wear. Over a long period of time Piastri just falls back.

This is what Max is doing just better; he’s just driving so smoothly, his tire management is what allows him to both run faster and longer than anyone else. He is not running maximum pace for the race, so usually the last few laps he will burn his tires to go even faster to make a statement, and to get fastest lap.

There is a bit of an analogy to low heart rate running. If you don’t ever allow your heart rate to get above zone 2, over a longer period of time your speed will increase but your heart rate doesn’t. And it allows you to have a very high cruising speed, and that’s what wins marathons.

Racing is the same, these guys in a sprint is very close, but cruising speed is very different across the board (max qualifying is 1:28 but during the race fastest lap was 1:34 or something like that, and that is much slower than any qualifying time of 1:31. That’s where driver and car separation is injecting itself. Those long term consistent gains over the course of many laps.

 

[entity279]

Regardless, it was a travesty that FIA actually greenlighted them to let a car return some 20 laps later to serve a penalty which at that point makes literally no difference to skip it when it would make a difference.

If it's that article is no longer in the rules , then they should be allowed to do it so no, no travesty.

There's absolutely nothing stopping the teams from serving penalties just before they retire the cars. And trying to prevent that is probably not enforceable.
So sending the car out again for one more lap after stoping should similarly be permited.

 

[Bludd]

If it's that article is no longer in the rules , then they should be allowed to do it so no, no travesty.

There's absolutely nothing stopping the teams from serving penalties just before they retire the cars. And trying to prevent that is probably not enforceable.
So sending the car out again for one more lap after stoping should similarly be permited.

yeah but its kinda dumb because they chose to retire the car and then decided to go out again to serve the penalty so they wont get it in the next race

what if they had crashed, the penalty would still be there and they may have had it next race.

maybe the stewards wouldnt apply it in the crash case but i havent read the regs