Formula 1 - 2014 Season

[-tkf-]

Starting form the pit lane was a major disadvantage for the exact reason he went off, really cold brakes on a quite cold day. Brakes are smaller this year so when they are cold they have even less performance then previous years.

When push came to shove Rossberg couldn't do what was needed to be done ( pass Vergne). even with the safety car he should have won, he didn't get the job done no one else.

2nd safety car ruined ricciardo's plan, but when push came to shove he got the job done.

He went off because he made a mistake not because his brakes were cool. He should know, his team should know, that his brakes were cold. Magnussen didn't go off with cold brakes.

And the advantage was a car that could run with a brand new setup to take advantage of the shifting weather.

 

[-tkf-]

Except his car catching fire in qualifying...

Which isn't the race.

 

[Dave Baumann]

http://www1.skysports.com/f1/report/22058/9397796/conclusions-from-the-2014-hungarian-gp

 

[Billy Idol]

http://www1.skysports.com/f1/report/22058/9397796/conclusions-from-the-2014-hungarian-gp

Lol!! I always thought that F1 is not so stupid...after all this German and British reports...how wrong I was!

 

[-tkf-]

Lol!! I always thought that F1 is not so stupid...after all this German and British reports...how wrong I was!

They have stuff to sell so they write crap.


In the end Hamilton did potentially cost Mercedes a win. It was a team call not a Rosberg call.

I doubt he races for Mercedes next year, maybe he will shift to something slower and dream of the days were he had championship winning car, no wait that was him at McLaren..

 

[Dave Baumann]

I think you're missing the very valid point they made - Hamilton was going to gain the track position by virtue of the safety car deployment timing collecting Rosberg the moment he finished the lap, but enabling Hamilton to pit on the lead lap. Had they then switched Hamilton two the same tire strategy as Rosberg he'd have had track position and be in the best position for winning the race. Hamilton would also have benefitted from having unused Soft tires by virtue of the fact that he went out in qualifying and not using as many sets as Rosberg.

Basically this is showing a naivety in the Merc teams strategy capabilities (not surprising as this is the first year as a leading team with this structure), and as Lauda points out the call for Hamilton to pull over was made out of panic. http://www1.skysports.com/f1/report...n-and-says-mercedes-panicked-in-issuing-order

As for Hamilton leaving Mercedes, that is a pretty ridiculous comment. Note, Lauda is the Chairman of the team and he brought Hamilton on board and here we have him defending the Hamilton's actions.

 

[Bludd]

Spot on, Dave.

 

[Billy Idol]

Assume that Ham would have let Ros pass. Assuming even that he then loses 2sec.

What do you think: in this case, would the Merc team had won more or fewer points than they did?

 

[Kaotik]

Assume that Ham would have let Ros pass. Assuming even that he then loses 2sec.

What do you think: in this case, would the Merc team had won more or fewer points than they did?

Without altering strategies, they would have scored minimum same amount, more likely at least 3 more

 

[Silent_Buddha]

Without altering strategies, they would have scored minimum same amount, more likely at least 3 more

I disagree, they likely would have lost far more than 3 points.

On the other hand, had they used a similar strat for Hamilton as they did for Rosberg (switch to softs for the end of the race) they would likely have picked 10 or more points by virtue of Hamilton having a good shot at winning the race.

Regards,
SB

 

[DuckThor Evil]

I think you're missing the very valid point they made - Hamilton was going to gain the track position by virtue of the safety car deployment timing collecting Rosberg the moment he finished the lap, but enabling Hamilton to pit on the lead lap. Had they then switched Hamilton two the same tire strategy as Rosberg he'd have had track position and be in the best position for winning the race. Hamilton would also have benefitted from having unused Soft tires by virtue of the fact that he went out in qualifying and not using as many sets as Rosberg.

Basically this is showing a naivety in the Merc teams strategy capabilities (not surprising as this is the first year as a leading team with this structure), and as Lauda points out the call for Hamilton to pull over was made out of panic. http://www1.skysports.com/f1/report...n-and-says-mercedes-panicked-in-issuing-order

It's easy to make the perfect strategy after the race, not so much during the race. I think Merc did fine with Hamilton's strategy, only reason Rosberg's strategy seemed faster and why he came to challenge Hamilton at the end was the extraordinary long soft tire stint from Alonso, which held down Hamilton allowing Rosberg to caught them up. Had Alonso pitted, which was imo expected until quite late or had Hamilton been able to pass him, also expected imo, he wouldn't have had to worry about Rosberg and possibly Ricardo either.

 

[Kaotik]

I disagree, they likely would have lost far more than 3 points.

There was no-one even remotely close enough to make Mercedes finish the other car minimum 4th, they wouldn't have lost any points for sure.

On the other hand, had they used a similar strat for Hamilton as they did for Rosberg (switch to softs for the end of the race) they would likely have picked 10 or more points by virtue of Hamilton having a good shot at winning the race.

Regards,
SB

Different strategies might have yielded even better results of course.

 

[-tkf-]

Usually strategy is best decided during the race not after it, it's a given that if you want the best result for the team you call the shots based on that not individual drivers ambitions.

Lauda doing pr damage control after the race is not surprising, it's one of his job functions. What I meant with my Hamilton doubts is that he doesn't seem to pleased with his team, most likely it's based on him having a worthy team mate that makes Hamilton less supreme that he considers himself. That is not going to change so he might opt for something else. Anyone know when his contract expires?

 

[DJ12]

Four-time world champion Sebastian Vettel was left behind by a 16-year-old at the German Karting Championship in May. Sahara Force India academy driver Jehan Daruvala from Mumbai revealed: "I did not interact with him directly, but I know that he was asking about my timings because I was going faster than him."

Poor Vettel, Maybe next year Newey can design his go-kart too

http://www.newindianexpress.com/sport/The-Superkid-Who-Beat-Vettel/2014/07/30/article2355322.ece?

 

[Wynix]

Usually strategy is best decided during the race not after it, it's a given that if you want the best result for the team you call the shots based on that not individual drivers ambitions.

Lauda doing pr damage control after the race is not surprising, it's one of his job functions. What I meant with my Hamilton doubts is that he doesn't seem to pleased with his team, most likely it's based on him having a worthy team mate that makes Hamilton less supreme that he considers himself. That is not going to change so he might opt for something else. Anyone know when his contract expires?

Both drivers are considered equal, Hamilton has no reason to give way to his team-mate and championship rival when the constructors trophy is as good as theirs.
The only thing left to race for is the drivers championship, the team were crazy in asking Hamilton to give points to Rosberg.

 

[Phil]

Assume that Ham would have let Ros pass. Assuming even that he then loses 2sec.

What do you think: in this case, would the Merc team had won more or fewer points than they did?

Considering they've already pretty much got the WCC in their bags, I'm not really sure what a few more or less points matter. They've had one of their drivers start from practically the end of the field (or from the pitlane) TWICE and still achieved a total of 40 points (in the race at Hockenheim) and if Rosberg had not fallen behind JEV, and able to re-pass him, he indeed would have had the best chance to win his race he started on pole comfortably. Hamilton was able to pass JEV at the crucial moment of the pass and then became the lead driver by track position. He then would have deserved the same strategy - that being the OO instead of single prime stint.

The fact that they put Rosberg on that and even asked Lewis to make room suggests that the team was mainly focusing on Rosbergs race and not in particular Hamiltons. The race also showed that the Option tyre was the one to be on - and it coincided with the info the teams gather back in P2.

 

[Billy Idol]

Considering they've already pretty much got the WCC in their bags, I'm not really sure what a few more or less points matter. They've had one of their drivers start from practically the end of the field (or from the pitlane) TWICE and still achieved a total of 40 points (in the race at Hockenheim) and if Rosberg had not fallen behind JEV, and able to re-pass him, he indeed would have had the best chance to win his race he started on pole comfortably. Hamilton was able to pass JEV at the crucial moment of the pass and then became the lead driver by track position. He then would have deserved the same strategy - that being the OO instead of single prime stint. The fact that they put Rosberg on that and even asked Lewis to make room suggests that the team was mainly focusing on Rosbergs race and not in particular Hamiltons. The race also showed that the Option tyre was the one to be on - and it coincided with the info the teams gather back in P2.

It is not about the WCC only. F1 is all about money. Every single point, even just a better position is worth a lot of money for a team: the TV money and other stuff like transport cost are linked to the position you get in the race.

Imo, Ham not following team order, not only did cost Rosberg a potential win of the race, but also substantial money for the team.

Note, that often, every single team member gets a bonus for each championship point the team achieves in every race. My friend once worked for F1 Toyota, and all of the F1 team got the bonus money (although it wasn't often back in time with ol Ralf Schumacher as a driver ). So potentially Ham not following team order codts every single F1 Mercedes team money bonus money.

People argue that F1 is a team sport and hence team order is absolutely fine. Toto Wolf hinted that their goal is to win the constructor championship as fast as possible and than let both drivers openly fight it out.

But I personally don't like team order. I want to see racing - fights, even between team members!
So, in this sense, I am happy that Ham fully ignored the team and did not follow their order, instead did his race. Ros needs to learn to overtake and be tough.

 

[Dave Baumann]

And the person that didn't tighten the fuel hose correctly on Saturday put them in the position in the first place.

 

[Billy Idol]

And the person that didn't tighten the fuel hose correctly on Saturday put them in the position in the first place.

Do you really compare this two actions??? One is a mistake, a failure by a human being. The other is a decision on purpose, after getting three team orders via radio. Not comparable and hence a weird post of yours imo?!?

 

[Dave Baumann]

Yes, if you want to boil it down to the level you are then it is entirely comparable.

(If it wasn't an uncontrolled component failure) Mistakes shouldn't happen and there are procedures and checks to follow to ensure they do not - a mistake that causes a fuel issue is not just one of a financial penalty for the entire team, because one of their cars is now starting from the back of the grid and unlikely to return the maximum financial reward, but also a big safety issue, not just for the driver but also Marshals and/or team personnel dependant on where the car decides to ignite itself.

So, yes, if the "team members" were really that annoyed that Hamilton made that choice then they probably need to be kicked out because the real issue occurred on Saturday, which could have had far nastier ramifications!

Note, that Toto has already stated that reliability is the biggest issue they have at the moment and the one that they are most focused on addressing. If the team members are only caring about their bonuses then that's the best course of action for ensuring their maximise their payday.

Note, I'm being a little snarky because I don't believe it boils down to a financial case, certainly not from the race team - likelihood is that they guys on Lewis' side of the garage were happy that their guy put one over the other side of the garage.

Autosport run a series (behind the paywall) called "The Secret Mechanic", by a former mechanic, and they had a commentary about what its like for a mechanic after a car failure (the last one article was spawned after Lewis' brake failure, but the fuel issue would have been much the same). It gives a good insight into the thoughts and emotions that the race team mechanics will feel when these things happen.

...One half of the team's garage would have felt quietly (very quietly) relieved to have their biggest rival out of Q3, while the other half, with heads in hands, would have wondered what on Earth they need to do to get the rub-of-the-green in 2014.

One person though, perhaps more so than anyone else, would have suffered a vast range of emotions in those initial moments and minutes after watching the car career helplessly into the barriers at high speed....

...He will already have felt under some pressure to give his man the perfect car.

Not only is there safety to consider, but in a team where you're fighting for a championship, as I was when this happened to me, the thoughts of having maybe let your team-mates and driver down feature pretty highly on the scale too. You all work so hard and give so much to try to achieve your collective goals, it's difficult not to feel like the guy who misses the crucial penalty kick in a World Cup final, if something you've done might've meant you all fail.

...

At the moment you finally discover the real cause and assuming it turns out to be nothing you've done wrong, which, depending on the failure, could even take days, there's a mixture of emotions.

I found a strange feeling of intense and overwhelming, smile-inducing relief, quickly followed by the underlying and tragic disappointment that your car's out of qualifying and has seriously dented your chances of a good result. All of a sudden you're back on the same wavelength as your team-mates again, only some way behind them in the grieving process.