Formula 1 - 2017 Season

[Phil]

Very nice post cjo.

To me, it seems Vettel went into this race anxious knowing Max was starting beside him. He put in a supreme performance on Saturday, knowing full well that the odds were all back in his favor to win the race (Singapore being usually won by the man starting on pole more times than not). Then the rain came and that is the one thing (besides having Max next to you) you don't want when starting from the front. The way he defended his position, even despite the slow getaway he had, makes it seem rather desperate, as if he was going into the race already with the plan to go left and protect the apex at any cost.

As others have said; defending the inside and cutting across is all well and good, as long as you have a reasonable start and don't have anyone partially or fully alongside you. The worse start you have, the less you are in a position to cut across safely without risking any collision.

It's particularly bad when you consider that Hamilton started in 5th and finishing any position ahead of Hamilton would have nearly ensured he gets back the lead in the WDC or at least is equal on points. Instead, he is now 28 points behind (29, if you consider drawing equal is not enough as a result of Hamilton having more wins).

 

[Gerry]

Been a bit quiet in here lately.

 

[Chris Lux]

Nothing more to discuss for this season. Sadly....

 

[cjo]

Yup. Hamilton needs, what, 41 points from 4 races? That's three 5th places and one 4th. And that's with Vettel winning the last 4 races. Assuming Vettel and Hamilton both finish each of the remaining races, Vettel can't prevent Hamilton taking the championship on his own. Hamilton is almost at the point of not caring what Ferrari or Red Bull do - if you take it as only those two teams and Mercedes competing for the top 4 race spots, he's got to beat one of their cars once. The rest of the races he can run around at his own pace, stay out of trouble and look after his engines.

 

[Bludd]

Ferrari has mucked it up, basically. Sad for the championship, but that's sports for you.

 

[DJ12]

Seems it's all of Ferrari's own doing too (Singapore aside) In the strive to get on par with Mercedes, seems they forgot the engine still needs to work properly for about 200 miles at least.

 

[Lightman]

Mercedes will likely need to take one engine for Hamilton before end of this season, where Ferrari were forced to do it already.
So yes, Vettel chances are slim, but they are not as bad as it seems, assuming he wins all remaining races and Hamilton finishes outside of points at least once.

I'm curious who will drive Toro Rosso in USA and which driver Williams will sign next to Stroll for 2018

 

[Kaotik]

Seems it's all of Ferrari's own doing too (Singapore aside) In the strive to get on par with Mercedes, seems they forgot the engine still needs to work properly for about 200 miles at least.

Vettels engine died to a cheap (59€ reportedly) part supplied by subcontractor, it was supposed to still have plenty of life in it

 

[DJ12]

Yet it appeared to be firing on all cylinders, and was reported to sound perfectly healthy to those at track side.

It just depends on if you want to believe Ferrari have broken the habit of a life time and have actually told the truth I guess.

They certainly wouldn't admit it was the same problem they faced a weekend earlier on both cars.....

 

[cjo]

Interesting race, quite a lot of action across the field. Shame about Verstappen's penalty, it's his sort of racing that makes the sport more exciting.

 

[Kaotik]

Interesting race, quite a lot of action across the field. Shame about Verstappen's penalty, it's his sort of racing that makes the sport more exciting.

But it stops being even playing field if just 1 guy breaks the rules and others honor them - that's why they need to be enforced, or changed completely
It's not about "his sort of racing", everyone there could drive like that (not talking about speed, but going past the rules with the moves), but the rest know they need to follow the rules

 

[cjo]

But it stops being even playing field if just 1 guy breaks the rules and others honor them - that's why they need to be enforced, or changed completely
It's not about "his sort of racing", everyone there could drive like that (not talking about speed, but going past the rules with the moves), but the rest know they need to follow the rules

The comment about his style wasn't just about that single move. Generally, he's very good at overtaking, and it makes for a more entertaining race. But pushing hard will end up in going off the track. Earlier in the race he pushed too hard and ended up forcing Bottas off the track, so he backed off and took another shot at it.

I don't think his intention starting that move was to go off the track completing it; he saw his last chance of the race and went for it. If he'd have managed to be a foot to the left mid-corner, it would have been an amazing end to what was a very good drive for him.

 

[Kaotik]

The comment about his style wasn't just about that single move. Generally, he's very good at overtaking, and it makes for a more entertaining race. But pushing hard will end up in going off the track. Earlier in the race he pushed too hard and ended up forcing Bottas off the track, so he backed off and took another shot at it.

I don't think his intention starting that move was to go off the track completing it; he saw his last chance of the race and went for it. If he'd have managed to be a foot to the left mid-corner, it would have been an amazing end to what was a very good drive for him.

Neither was mine about that single move

 

[tongue_of_colicab]

But it stops being even playing field if just 1 guy breaks the rules and others honor them - that's why they need to be enforced, or changed completely
It's not about "his sort of racing", everyone there could drive like that (not talking about speed, but going past the rules with the moves), but the rest know they need to follow the rules

Yeah because no other driver was outside the racing track this weekend...

It's completely random. Sometimes you get a penalty for going outside the track, sometimes a warning, sometimes nothing. Make up your mind. All weekend people have been going well outside the track limits. Why did the stewards take no action?

Though with you this isn't really any point in asking.

Anyway when Lauda calls it a stupid decision you know it is.

Btw appearantly this is the same asshat that gave a similar penalty to verstappen last year.

 

[Kaotik]

Yeah because no other driver was outside the racing track this weekend...

It's completely random. Sometimes you get a penalty for going outside the track, sometimes a warning, sometimes nothing. Make up your mind. All weekend people have been going well outside the track limits. Why did the stewards take no action?

Though with you this isn't really any point in asking.

Anyway when Lauda calls it a stupid decision you know it is.

Actually it's not random at all, the drivers & teams themselves agree with Charlie & judges on where you can cross the line and where not, for example in the US race they all go past the boundaries on the last(?) corner but they agreed it doesn't give anyone any time advantage.

When you cut corner short by exiting track on the inside to pass someone, you clearly get advantage, thus penalty is the only possible outcome.

Of course it would be better if the rule was like it's in all the other series: 1 tyre has to be on track at all times, no exceptions.
I think it was Hamilton who commented on this issue with a good point - back in the day there was gravel where there's now just more asphalt and such, if you went out of bounds, you'd suffer from it. The younger drivers have all grown up when there's no gravel traps right outside and thus have learned to try and bend the rules since you can't lose time with it, you can gain time with it and it might escape unnoticed by the judges.​

Btw appearantly this is the same asshat that gave a similar penalty to verstappen last year.

Considering that Verstappen has made far more penalty worthy moves than just 2, that's hardly fair.

 

[entity279]

Seconds on a timesheet are invisible while a pass is tangible, concrete. It makes sense that if a punishment were to be attributed, the latter situation would impose it.

Wether we agree to the penalty or not, it's not arbitrary

 

[tongue_of_colicab]

Actually it's not random at all, the drivers & teams themselves agree with Charlie & judges on where you can cross the line and where not, for example in the US race they all go past the boundaries on the last(?) corner but they agreed it doesn't give anyone any time advantage.

When you cut corner short by exiting track on the inside to pass someone, you clearly get advantage, thus penalty is the only possible outcome.

Of course it would be better if the rule was like it's in all the other series: 1 tyre has to be on track at all times, no exceptions.
I think it was Hamilton who commented on this issue with a good point - back in the day there was gravel where there's now just more asphalt and such, if you went out of bounds, you'd suffer from it. The younger drivers have all grown up when there's no gravel traps right outside and thus have learned to try and bend the rules since you can't lose time with it, you can gain time with it and it might escape unnoticed by the judges.​

Considering that Verstappen has made far more penalty worthy moves than just 2, that's hardly fair.

Except they don't agree as Hamilton said in that exact same interview after the race.

A red light means stop. Always. Regardless of whether there is any traffic or not. Everybody understands this.

But for whatever reason track limits are completely random in F1. How can it be that slingshotting yourself around a corner is okay but cutting a corner by going off track (did they discuss and agree whether cutting that corner gives an advantage or not? I doubt it) isn't?

Either make the rule that exceeding the track limits nets you a penalty or let them drive where they want.

The current "rule" is confusing for everybody.

But anything not Kimi doesn't get through to you anyway so what. Let's ban verstappen because he actually races instead of playing second fiddle like your hero

 

[Kaotik]

Except they don't agree as Hamilton said in that exact same interview after the race.

A red light means stop. Always. Regardless of whether there is any traffic or not. Everybody understands this.

But for whatever reason track limits are completely random in F1. How can it be that slingshotting yourself around a corner is okay but cutting a corner by going off track (did they discuss and agree whether cutting that corner gives an advantage or not? I doubt it) isn't?

Either make the rule that exceeding the track limits nets you a penalty or let them drive where they want.

The current "rule" is confusing for everybody.

But anything not Kimi doesn't get through to you anyway so what. Let's ban verstappen because he actually races instead of playing second fiddle like your hero

The current rule is confusing to spectators, not to drivers no matter what Verstappen claims (unless he has been absent from mandatory meetings every driver has to attend before weekend of course, but then he can only blame himself and would have been penalized for that too I'm sure)

I agree it's a bad rule compared to "one wheel has to stay within track limits at all times" but it's still a rule and needs to be followed

Every driver plays the "second fiddle" if you're out of chance to get the championship and your team mate still has a chance

 

[DJ12]

Max reacted to Kimi moving into him (Although it looks like Kimi didn't know he was there and moves the other way when he realises) and gets a penalty. You have to laugh at the FIA, someone's they don't even try to hide the fact the f stands for Ferrari. Deep down Kimi will be annoyed he got 3rd on a technically.

While Max crossed the line in his interview after the race and made it a bit more dramatic than it needed to be, but he has a point. It's crap like that that will turn fans off the sport.

 

[Kaotik]

Max reacted to Kimi moving into him (Although it looks like Kimi didn't know he was there and moves the other way when he realises) and gets a penalty. You have to laugh at the FIA, someone's they don't even try to hide the fact the f stands for Ferrari. Deep down Kimi will be annoyed he got 3rd on a technically.

While Max crossed the line in his interview after the race and made it a bit more dramatic than it needed to be, but he has a point. It's crap like that that will turn fans off the sport.

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/...-verstappen-s-last-lap-pass-of-raikkonen.html
All angles there.
Kimi didn't make any "sudden moves" or such towards Max, usually you turn if there's a corner, as Kimi did, and he left plenty of room on the track for Max to stay on it instead of taking shortcuts (Kimi went far wider than the usual racing line to leave room). Maybe Max doesn't trust himself enough to drive anywhere close wheel to wheel with the most experienced and skilled drivers out there? There's no other possible explanations for his shortcut - except for wanting to take the shortcut to get the overtake done of course.